Well it seems that we're getting double charged again in
Australia. At videoguys the price seems to be nearly aust $10K without cards and 2K for the 8gb cards. I looked up Globalmediapro across the Tasman sea in NZ and they've got it for aust $6700.

So can someone explain why someone can import it from Hong Kong or wherever in Asia for over 3K less? Is it because we only have 20 million people in Australia so its got to cost that much more to put it on a boat to bring it down under right? Got to give it to Panasonic Australia.

Probably because of Government regulations and overhead cost on import duty that was applied for foreign imports. If it was made in Australia may it be different. That sucks.

dude, that $6700NZ is prolly without GST or any sales taxes.

at the moment, the cheapest we can do the HVX for is $9700 without any cards, but if u HAVE seen it for 6700 then it WOULD be worth it coz all youd be paying is import duties and GST, which would bring the unit to 8k or so, which is STILL 2 grand cheaper....
the XLh1 is going for 14000 and there are already preorders on these units.. the biggest problem pana have here though, is the cost of P2 and implementation in the NLEs

That HVX is the NTSC version, with no P2 cards. 1 P2 card in Australia currently goes for at least 1k.

So with import and shipping costs, you're looking at closer to $8000 - add a p2 card and we're now up to (over?) 9k.

Videoguys has HVX and p2 card for 10k.

Well I'd actually go there and have a holiday and pick it up to avoid the tax. If I get caught too bad. Too bad if it breaks down too.

I'd rather just buy it here to get the warranty if it was half a grand or so more (not 2 or 3K). If I made money from my equipment I'd pay the extra and claim it back on tax. But I dont so thats too bad.

14K for the xlH1? thats a cheap small car for hdv.

The XL H1 is a Hyundai pretty much anywhere you buy it.

Well I'd actually go there and have a holiday and pick it up to avoid the tax. If I get caught too bad.

You almost certainly won't get caught.. Just send the box, user manual etc back to Australia & carry your new camera in a pelican case or leather case and you wont have any problems going through customs... I never have...

And to all the users saying the price in Oz is too high compared to our neighbours... COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN to Panasonic and the retailer and let them know that you'll be buying the HVX200 overseas due to the approx AU$1500-2000 difference in price.. The more pressure we as consumers put on both Panasonic & the retailers the better...

If I can get say at least 20 Aussies thinking of buying the HVX200 to put their name down saying our thoughts on the price then i'll take the time to get a well written letter/petition so we can all sign it and let Panasonic know our thoughts....

HI Darren,
Its a perennial problem. Peter Jefferson works for a retailer and from what he explains to me in the past there isnt huge margins for them on selling camera's after tax etc and it doesnt help that Panasonic set their prices so high for us. I'm quite sympathetic to the retailers. I just cant understand why the U.S gets one price and all the PAL users get another. Well I do actually, its the biggest market in the world. But what about China? they're PAL and so is Europe.
Enough said. I'll stick to my dvx until next year and see what happens.

GlobalMediaPro's price is $9123.75 including GST. And that's if you are in New Zealand.

Aaron

Peter Jefferson works for a retailer and from what he explains to me in the past there isnt huge margins for them on selling camera's after tax etc and it doesnt help that Panasonic set their prices so high for us. I'm quite sympathetic to the retailers

I too work for a photographic camera retailer for the past 8 years (as a technician, we have both sales & service) and its true that retailers don't make huge margins... But if the customer makes the retailer & manufacturer aware of the high prices, then hopefully the retailer will put pressure on the manufacturer to reduce their wholesale price which will then reduce the sale price to the customer...

We too have many customers who use to buy digital SLR's from the US into Australia due to the big price dufference but since we as the retailer have put huge pressure onto Nikon & Canon, the pricing in Australia is very competitive to overseas, not as cheap but getting pretty close.

"But if the customer makes the retailer & manufacturer aware of the high prices, then hopefully the retailer will put pressure on the manufacturer to reduce their wholesale price which will then reduce the sale price to the customer..."

we tried this for about 4 years and nada, nothing zilch... and we used to Beta test the PAL cameras prior to launch and assist in marketing and finding teh right target for the product...

as an example, canon even tried to monopolise the distribution element of the XL2 to a select few authorised sellers, which basically shot themselves in the ass with, as the price of the unit was still extraordinarily high. They thought that by tightening the output, they could control sales but this never happend and retailers who didnt make the "authosrised" list ended up importing their own units on demand... and selling them for about 3500 less than their authorised counterparts.
Sony then launched the FX1 ad 6 months later the z1. Both overpriced at launch (the fx1 was 7500, now u can find it for a lil over 4k... )and the z1, to my eye, was completely underdeveloped for the format in which it was shooting. They focused more on the immigration of PD users to the Z1 as oppsed to making the camera jsut that much more special.. Now that THAT market ploy has paid off (most PD/sony diehard fans have, or will inevitably, jump ship to the Z1) they dont have to worry about DVCam or anything remotely related to the PD... I bet the next HDV unit sony releases wont even have ANY DVCam facilities..

Now over 12 months later, the unit is less 2500 than what it was upon launch... this is what PROVES that these units DONT need to be priced the way they have been.. and its got nothing to do with streamlining the manufacture of the units...

here in aus, they believe (manufacturers i mean) that its not the numbers that sell the unit.. they KNOW they wont sell that many units, so they jack up the price to make up for the lack of sales.
In effect, the sale of 6 units, pays off the "7th" unit, whereas in the US, demand is higher, so the 6 would sell the 6 units, but the 7th would be sold relatively quickly (as opposed to AU's struggle for the sale) , so theres not much of a marginal loss in that units manufacture.

In the end though, both nations are making the same amount of money based on the units sold. Basically the 7 sold in the US would make the same amount of money from the 6 sold in AU
And to them, its not about the units sold or the penetration of the unit within the market, its all about the bottom line...

Does that make sense??

With this, it REALLY makes me wonder how much money is really involved in the manufacture of these units and how much dedication these manufacturers REALLY have to their users when they do this.....

As for the HVX i think the biggest turning point is not the price.. there WILL be people moving from DVXland into the HVX simply for the fact that most of the accessories, of not ALL accessories are still workable on this unit. I wont have to fork out another 2grand on batteries if i go this route.
Eventually the HVX, like its competitive counterpart, will drop in price considerably. The DVX was $8800 on launch, its now going for about $5500 3 years later. More than likely its big brother will follow in price. Also as Pana realise that people are importing their own units, they wont have a choice BUT to lower their prices and the sales of P2 will be detrimental to the way in which the camera is recieved.

The biggest issue now facing this unit is NLE integration. Not price, not P2 capacity, not form factor, not resolution, not "my cam is better than yours"

Hi Peter,
Sure it makes sense.. But our store had relatively good success in pressuring Maxwells (nikon) and Canon to the point where we are now only AU$150 difference in price between buying from us & importing from the USA on a AU$5000 digital SLR... Perhaps the pro video maket is different to the pro photographic market as I suppose there are more still cameras sold, therefore there's more potential for loss here in Australia for them...

Either way, i'll still hassle them, pressure them, call them f#@kwits, whatever it takes so at least I know I tried keeping my money here in Australia first before sending it overseas... But if the price is less than say 10% different I probably won't bother...

stills is a different kettle of fish im afraid, not only do retailers and manufacturers make alot more money from sales due to demand, but the photogs themselves make alot more than their video counterparts. Thats just the nature of the beast.. especially down here where video has a negative stigma stapled to it from the tackiness of yesteryear.

Demand for video here in aus is relatively low, when u consder that about 20% of weddings and events (not counting corporate) are actually video'd while that same base market would have about 85% photographed by a professional. Now thats a HUGE difference. Most of the Photogs i work with tell me that out of THEIR OWN work, they have only worked with a videographer about 15-20% of the time.
This is HUGE and it doesnt bode well for our own market, let alone its growth into the HD world...

To my eye, the market itself isnt big enough for what we do to warrant any upgrades at this time for the prices which are asked for the equipment. Then there is the post prod time and costs involved with that, and its difficult enough to score an SD job, let alone trying to upsell them to a HD equivalent.
At the moment, retailers like Hardly Normal and the like are saturating the consumer with misleading information pertaining to SD and HD plasma and LCD panels, none of the big name retailers understand anything about LCD vs DLP projectors, and most consumers wouldnt know he first thing about calibrating their surround sound systems to get the most out of their home theatres.
Education is the key to making money with HD here in aus, and to be honest with u, our general public are not interested in HD... Not yet anyway...
To most, HD means an upgrade to a $2000+ panel or projector which will only be used to watch DVD movies (which is SD anyway) or free to air TV (with which the relatime scaling is terrible and the nuances nd compression artefacts are far too ugly to be even considered HD IMO.

When the PS3 and Xbox kick in, maybe we'll see some proper HD material on these panels to showcase the benefits, but until then, I personally am not bothering offering HD to my own clients unless they ask for it. And if the market doesnt evolve within the next 6-12 months, i will most likely be jumping ship to stills photography coz lets face it, our equipment is far more expensive, our post prod time is far longer and our workload vs $$ really doesnt add up... especially if u do events.

Most of these cameras (such as the HD101, Z1, XL2, DVX100, PD150, etc etc) are purchased by event videographers.

Larger commercial production houses have the funds to acquire larger ENG type cameras and theyre in a different league when it comes to equipment used, post production as well as the fact that their actual clientelle is not based on "general public" such as events and weddings.
Its a big difference in production values which needs to be stipulated at this time.

I guess from here, as Pana have trashed Rexel with the distrubution of the new Pana goodies, it seems that cutting outthe middleman might be a good idea to keep prices down, however we wont know that until the unit hits the streets.
Id love one of these camera, but right now, it aint gonna happen for me and to be honest, im not upset about it one bit.

In fact Im glad in a way that pana havent gone down the HDV and the way in which HDV is being touted by alot of my own competitors (be it retail or production studio )
In the end, im glad theyre shooting themselves in the ass and not charging whats appropriate. Why??
It just reinforces my sentiments that the video market here in aus has not only set a bad precedent in the past with DV, which has dictated the way the market itself grows. With the Advent of Digital prices got CHEAPER the work got harder and requirements were far more invovled.
This SHOULD HAVE increased prices, in fact, it went the other direction...

But with HDV, theyre doing the same thing now... and they HAVENT learnt from their past mistakes.
THIS is the time to set new rules for the growth of video here, but those shooting HDV are all too busy undercutting and "bettering" their competitors, that theyre kiling their own market by not charging whats appropriate.
I sure as hell wont give a HD product at SD prices. My time is too valuable for that, but i can certainly guarantee you that 90% of houses useing HDV are not charging whats apropriate... Thats their loss though, coz in the future, when "everyone" gets onto the HD wagon, they wont be able to put their prices up coz by then Joe Blogs down the street who uses the same gear will be cheaper than the "pioneer" ... with which the pioneer will ned to keep his prices down to compete with Joe blogs...
Its one big ugly circle... then again our market is a dumb one simply due to lack of eduation, which is now dominated by business owners who have no idea about market growth or demand. They know how to shoot and they know how to edit and thats about it. The sad part is that THAT is all they care about. The $$ for NOW

And in the end, for me, this kind of behaviour sets my mind at rest when i look across to my photographic ideas... it just reinforces my justification for jumping across through to the stills market. Im lucky in a sense that i have photographers wanting me to shoot for them, and i see how photogrpahers market their own products, and its far FAR more professional and "fitting" cost wise and they seem to have a better understanding of their own market as oppsed to their video counterparts. Im am still baffled as to how they charge $6k and people are happy to pay that but for video, they public wont go over $2500.. and thats only if your stuff is something special. So not only is our market share abysmal, but what we make within that market is pretty sad.
This in itself, and the way in which these new technologies and formats are being managed, again help me come to the decision to move across to another market.

Its just not worth it...

Hi Peter,

I think what you said also apply world wide, not only in Australia.

But the real question is how to get better for video guys compares to still photography. I don't think just simply raise the price will do anything better.

Regards
Leigh

price is just the final element IMO.

the first and most important aspect is education, from there it all comes down to style and technique, from there is comes down to how much people are willing to pay for this style and technique.

with regard to formats, it should be an extension or an ADDITION to the above elements, not the focus of the business structure.. Lets face it, anyone can shoot in HD/HDV but whether or not its any good is another issue altogether.. but if poeple are stupid enough to fall for the format vs quality of shooting, then thats the industries loss coz all of this does is set a precedent for the future... if people are happy to accept lucklustre work in HD format, over awesome work in SD, then things arent looking too promising for the industry as a whole..

I wouldnt say "better" than photography... id say its moreso the fact that alot more work goes into what we do and we dont get half as much business as photogs do.. the only way to "warrant" a high price akin to our photographic counterparts is to educate the client and to SHOW THEM what theyre money buys them.

education.. its the only way this industry is going to evolve..

Hi Peter,

But not everyone want to be educated. And if be educated, means pay more. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

well then if producers arent willing to explain the differences to the work required for HD delivery, to their clients, then theyre the ones losing out on the potential business opportunities of the HD format...
With HD the work IS a little more intense and precise. There IS afew more steps when it comes to editing and delivering and all these little nuances take time. To me time is money, ad if people want these HD formats, theyre paying for my time. If my competition is willing to do it for free, or standard DV rates, so be it
I do what i do and they do what they do.
If people dont want to be educated, whether they be producers or the general public, then its their loss coz their missing out on a potentialy greater format than what theyre already using.

Like i said, in the end, its up to us to educate the clients of the benefits. Maybe if we did this to better the industry to create growth, thered be some decent market penetration with appropriate pricing which people would be more than happy to pay for.

Keep people in the dark and your left with nothing except more work for you... without the extra pay for your time...

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the comments ;-)

Regards
Leigh

Well did you know the only reason people bought dvd's was because you didnt have to rewind it and not for the staggering improvement in quality. I'm not sure the change from sd to hd is as big a quantum leap in quality. Also give me better color and dynamic range over resolution anyday.

We're all gadget junkies on this board but the guys doing it for a living have to look at the bottom line. Honestly the general public only buys plasma sets for the fashion. Never mind that there is really nothing outside a computer monitor that can show real high def.

Aaron I got the price of the ntsc mixed up with the pal at globalmediapro. Still comes back to the same issue. Why do we pay more for pal. Hell high def was a chance to get rid of this pal/ntsc bullshit and the companies didnt take it.

I agree with Tung. Pixel does not count. It is not the camera make a difference, but the people behind the camera.

Regards
Leigh

After saying that, I had an opportunity to fly sony hvr-z1p camera with my SmoothArm walking around in the dealer's office yesterday morning. It was shot in wide angle with 1080i. The video projected on the screen outperformed my panansonic nv-gs400 and jvc gy-dv5000 with Fujinon s20x6.4brm-sd lense. The footage is just beautiful from z1. wow ;-) That is in the normal office lighting. I guess my skill has not improved, but by simply switching the camera, the viewing experience gets much better. ;-)

I look forward to flying some hd camera like hvx200 soon. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

I agree with Tung. Pixel does not count. It is not the camera make a difference, but the people behind the camera.

Regards
Leigh