Hey Chris just wondering if we can have a forum dedicated to special effects, compositing or motion graphics? People might need help with programs such as after effects, motion, flame, inferno or shake?

That would be tops if you can add that in!

That's a great idea, i'd second it.

Jemero: at the moment there is no such forum. There is sometimes a topic on
After Effects in the Adobe forums for example.

Usually Chris starts a forum when there is sufficient traffic to warrant one
(ie, enough topics on the subject) so we don't have empty forums.

So the best way to get it is to start discussing those subjects! The best place
to do that in is probably the Open DV Discussion forum.

Thanks for the feedback!

p.s. Chris will respond to this topic as well with the "final" answer. I just
wanted to give you a heads up on how this usually works here.

I'm all for it.

Hopefully we can get enough feed back to create a demand for it, honestly this is the creme dela creme of video sites if we can get that, its basically covering almost everything on what video is all about.

ok let ask a question

Does anybody know what plugin I can get for AE or motion for that old skool 8mm look even when the film burns out. I would love to know what its called and where I can get it.

Jemore: http://www.adobe.com/products/plugins/aftereffects/main.html

The one I always hear about is DigiEffects' CineLook. However, there are multiple plugins on that page for (old) film emulation.

Rob you are the man!

I heard magic bullet can do it too.
But I'll have a look at this one pronto!

I bet you there are hundreds more questions like these, lets make them appropriate and ask Chris for a forum.

I'd love to have a effects forum! That'd be awesome.

FYI: I'm new, but if I had had a problem with effects I wouldn't have known that I could post it on this site, I just wouldn't have been sure it would really be on topic...

It's a great idea. I've had questions to ask about after effects that I never knew where to ask.

Jemero:
Usually Chris starts a forum when there is sufficient traffic to warrant one
(ie, enough topics on the subject) so we don't have empty forums.


dvxuser after effects form is always full; great good idea to start one.

I'm for starting a compositing/3D/DVFX forum.

I also vote for a new effects forum.

After Effects being the most popular, it seems, but all the other flavs on a sub-forum would be great as well.

I mean, I tried looking at some of the After Effects tutorial books, and I just go blank. Most of it is written for people who already know how to use it, it seems.

excellent suggestion....i could sure use a forum like this...adobe manuals are the worst. supplemental training is essential, not optional....

I agree too, would be wonderful!
Don't know much about special fx, but it would be great if I could turn to this place to for questions.

The problem I have with this subject, is that 99.9% of the people are using FCP or AE for compositing. I am in the .01% that don't have either, and end up using Photoshop, or whatever free program I can find.

Now, if you would be willing to use the proposed forum to find and use low budget alternatives in addition to how to use them, I'm for it!

After Effects isn't the only game in town. That is why I think the proposed title for the forum, or group of forums, is most appropriate: Compositing and special effects.

with apple selling shake for $499 and cheapie crossgrades from FCP to full Studio, including Motion, i think you're gonna be seeing a sudden influx of more users of these other apps...and a lot more questions....

with apple selling shake for $499 and cheapie crossgrades from FCP to full Studio, including Motion, i think you're gonna be seeing a sudden influx of more users of these other apps...and a lot more questions....

I agree. I'm one who just bought Shake 4.1! I'm not entirely new to composting or DVFX and I think this suggestion is a good one.

Just wanted to chime in as another board member that whole heartly agrees with the idea of having a Compositing/Visual Effects (maybe even include motion graphics) board.

There are many many questions peppered all over a number of forums regarding compositing and visual effects. These questions don't always fall into the various NLE buckets we have already, they are difficult to hunt down and find when simlar questions appear again later (in a different forum than the older thread containing an answer :p ) and those of us with with a strong interest, focus and experience in these areas have no way to subscribe or monitor a central location that might contain directly useful information or questions related to our field.

The problem I have with this subject, is that 99.9% of the people are using FCP or AE for compositing. I am in the .01% that don't have either, and end up using Photoshop, or whatever free program I can find.

Now, if you would be willing to use the proposed forum to find and use low budget alternatives in addition to how to use them, I'm for it!
There are many many low cost alternatives, and also specialized techniques for Photoshop. Would be great to have a forum here to discuss them. :)

Jemero: at the moment there is no such forum. There is sometimes a topic on
After Effects in the Adobe forums for example.

Usually Chris starts a forum when there is sufficient traffic to warrant one
(ie, enough topics on the subject) so we don't have empty forums.

So the best way to get it is to start discussing those subjects! The best place
to do that in is probably the Open DV Discussion forum.

Thanks for the feedback!

p.s. Chris will respond to this topic as well with the "final" answer. I just
wanted to give you a heads up on how this usually works here.

Here are just a few examples from the first page of hits from a basic search on the word "keying". Feel free to let me know if you need more examples on other effects related subjects. :)

Sony HVR-A1 Board (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69142)
Open DV Board (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69478)
Alternative Imaging Board (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=64546)
HVX200 Board (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=68606)
XL2 Board (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=68304)
Indie Production Board (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=68098)
Another from the Indie Board (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=67874)
HD / HDV Editing Board (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=67677)

Hmmm... gears... turning... mind... thinking... description would be Compositing and Special Effects?

For many people, "Special Effects" describes on set/in-camera effect (explosions, camera tricks, etc.) ... and Visual Effects are in post.

How about dodging that whole thing with something more general:
"Digital Compositing and Effects"

Digital Postproduction?

The name has to be broad enough to cover several areas, 3D, compositing, DVFX. But it needs to be narrow enough so that it doesn't end up as a catch all for doing something easily accomplished in Vegas, FCP or Premier.

Agreed. (Which is part of why I avoided software specific boards in my examples post above.)

This discussions of this board seem to be geared towards Comp & Effects related tools and techniques that are not specific to an application that has it's own board here already.

I think Digital Post gets a little too broad, since things like DVD Authoring and/or web encoding fall under that umbrella. Besides the fact that these areas already have a board here, they would be outside the intended focus of the board we're talking about here (as far as I can tell anyway).

"Digital Compositing & Effects" is narrow enough to focus on post production effects, while also being broad enough to include 3D and even motion graphics. :)

I think this is a great idea. While there are compositing forums out there on the web they are the sort of places that most video users would never bother to check out. Those forums tend to be for a specific application as well. With more and more indy producers trying out sci-fi it would be great to have a forum on effects from other indies point of view. Besides now that Shake was just dropped to $499.00 you can bet there are going to be a butt load of indy producers getting into compositing and effects.

How about dodging that whole thing with something more general: "Digital Compositing and Effects"

Great forum name!

Ok... So what do you all recommend for the PC, on the low to free end?

Ok... So what do you all recommend for the PC, on the low to free end?
What type of effects do you want to create?
What tools do you already have?

How close to "free" does something need to be to qualify as "low"?
$500? $300? $100? $50?

Another important consideration is how much time you have/want to invest into the tool. There are some really powerful free tools out there, but they can have steep learning curves.

...With more and more indy producers trying out sci-fi it would be great to have a forum on effects from other indies point of view....
Another note is that the vast majority of effects we see (or better still DON'T see ;) ) are "invisible" effects added to non-scifi subjects.

Set extensions, day-for-night, cg props and animations, etc.
Seabiscuit, for example, had something like 240 effects shots.

Right now, just Photoshop. I've got a Decklink HD pro card on the way, it might have something. I also have Premiere 2 on the way. Other than that, I do have an older Boris Graffitti that came with my DV Storm. I used to have a decent 3D program, but it really freaked out when I moved up from my AMD 1800+, and refuses to work. (When I upgraded again, I gave the 2800 out of my machine to my wife, and took the 1800 back from her's, so that I can build a low end PC, just for my 3D app ;)

Right now, just Photoshop. I've got a Decklink HD pro card on the way, it might have something. I also have Premiere 2 on the way. Other than that, I do have an older Boris Graffitti that came with my DV Storm. I used to have a decent 3D program, but it really freaked out when I moved up from my AMD 1800+, and refuses to work. (When I upgraded again, I gave the 2800 out of my machine to my wife, and took the 1800 back from her's, so that I can build a low end PC, just for my 3D app ;)
And what kind of effects would you like to be able to create?

With Photoshop and Premiere you already have a fantastic setup capable of doing AMAZING digital matte work.

Keying should be simple enough with Premiere. However, it has never been well known for titling, particle effects, or those really cool streaming lights effects, like in the movie titles and commercials.

If I can ever get Infini-D 3D to work for me, I'd like to work on 3D compositing.

It's been a long time since I used Premiere, but what I remember (and still hear from users) the keying functionality was actually very .... mmmm ... sub-par.

The lowest priced keying and particle/lighting effects tools I know of are from a place in the UK called FXHome.

FWIW: I don't own or use these products, and am not affiliated with FXHome in any way other than reading their forums from time to time. They do seem to have an enthusiastic and happy (though generally young) user base.

They have a tools called Compositing Lab (for ... uh .... compositing ;) ) and Effects Lab for the particle/lighting effects.
"Lite" versions are around $100 depending on exchange rates, but even their "Pro" versions are around $160.

http://fxhome.com/products/products-the-family.html

Hope this helps.

PS: For 3D .... take a look at Blender from Blender.org
http://blender.org/cms/Home.2.0.html
It's a very powerful, full featured and FREE 3D modelling and animation tool, though the learning curve can be a challenge.

I tried Blender at one time, and didn't find it very intuitive. I also tried Caligari which was free, but it was just pretty useless. That doesn't stop them from spamming me every 3 days though.

I also appreciate the links, but would rather have personal recommendations based on usability.

I also appreciate the links, but would rather have personal recommendations based on usability.

Well, the FXHome stuff has free demo downloads, so you can try them out yourself .... doesn't get more personal than that. :D
I use Shake on the Mac and AE on PC, so just never bothered to look into these apps directly.

For Easy & 3D combined, I'd personally suggest Bryce from Daz3D.com
This was my first 3D app, and having since worked with XSI, Maya, C4D, Electric Image and a host of other tools, I still think Bryce is hands down the easiest to learn. Bryce 5 (the version I still have and use) is only about $60. The latest version is around $100.

http://bryce.daz3d.com

For Easy & 3D combined, I'd personally suggest Bryce from Daz3D.com
This was my first 3D app, and having since worked with XSI, Maya, C4D, Electric Image and a host of other tools, I still think Bryce is hands down the easiest to learn. Bryce 5 (the version I still have an use) is only about $60. The latest version is around $100.
I agree. I started with Bryce 5.5 and then moved on to Blender (hey, it's free) and Vue 5 Infinite. I've used Shake before but with the recent amazing price cut, I just bought my own copy of Shake 4.1, the Universal Binary version.

Blender is difficult to get used to but there is a very welcoming and supportive community of users that helped to ease the pain. DAZ recently bought Eovia which makes Hexagon and Carrara--both powerful, but relatively cheap, 3D modeling applications.

Vue 5 Infinite: http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_5_infinite/
Carrara: http://www.eovia.com/products/carrara5/carrara.asp
Hexagon: http://www.eovia.com/products/hexagon/hexagon2.asp

I've also tried Blender and found it hard to use. Well, too lazy to play and figure out Blender, that is.

I don't use Ulead products at all and seem to be mentioning them too often, of late. But, they have a product called Cool3D which you can use for animation and VideoGraphicsLab for Vector Graphics and Rotoscoping.

Than there's the product called Animation Master. It's from Hash, Inc., located in Vancouver, WA. The product seems to get great reviews and the price is cheap. A guy who created a animition short of a coffee bean asassin, with the program worked on Matrix due to it. Link: www.hash.com

Me, I'd like to learn more on using After Effects.

ill be teaching an after effects class in the near future

Hey John- I think Riley just offered to teach you :)

I wouldn't mind learning After Effects, or even shake. But, I don't want to learn shake bad enough to go back to Mac. I sort of "found" a copy of AE4, and messed around a little. But it's curve was way higher than Premiere's, so I stuck with what I knew.

Getting past the learning curve to get a lot of the basics isn't that hard. Use Total Training on the high end, or pick up a copy of the book I am currently editing.... More on that later. Just know that a step-by-step book is a very effective way to learn for most people. Use Lynda.com or VTC/com to get the basics for $25 or $30 per month. If you plan ahead, you can learn quite a few products in the same month all for that one fee.

Getting into the heavy details? Understanding Chris and Trish Meyer? Ah, well, that is a horse of a different color. But not too bad once the basics make sense to you.

So Chris what'll it be?

"digital compositing and effects"
"digital post production"
"compositing and effects"
"anything post"
"tweakers and bleakers"

ahh...it's too early in the morn for this.
Any other names guys?

I've also tried Blender and found it hard to use. Well, too lazy to play and figure out Blender, that is.

I don't use Ulead products at all and seem to be mentioning them too often, of late. But, they have a product called Cool3D which you can use for animation and VideoGraphicsLab for Vector Graphics and Rotoscoping.

Than there's the product called Animation Master. It's from Hash, Inc., located in Vancouver, WA. The product seems to get great reviews and the price is cheap. A guy who created a animition short of a coffee bean asassin, with the program worked on Matrix due to it. Link: www.hash.com

Me, I'd like to learn more on using After Effects.

I was really disappointed to see Ulead spin the VGL completely out of their Media Studio Pro suite. The idea of selling it seperate is OK, just not taking it OUT of the pre-existing suite. Before getting into AE and Shake, I'd done all my comp work in MSP, even writting additional plugins specific for bluescreen/greenscreen for it. The VideoPaint roto tool in the VGL is very nice. Somehow, Cool3D never seemed "finished" to me though. It has the ability to set up nice 3D logo effects ... but falls just a little short of having the features needed to create truely polished looking animations.


Are there any specific tasks that you would like to learn about with After Effects? Which version do you have?

----------

Hey Chris .... how are those turning wheels doing?

Well, there's a book out called "Digital Composition for Film and DV"...

I think that says it all. We should just go with Digital Composition.

As to After Effects, I have access to ver 6.5.

I'll bite. I saw a short indy clip where the guy put in a helicopter overhead and than pans down to soldiers (walking independently) among a field. The guy said the helicopter was an effect and the soldiers were cloned as well, all in Effects.

So question 1. Without going into a 3d program, is there a way to animate a helicopter hovering overhead? I'm assuming a toy model of a helicopter is used.

Question 2. I'm sure you're doing several retakes of yourself walking among the field, from different locations and that the camera does not move. Later, you would combine all the clips together to get the multiple movements, but is there a way to combine that with a camera moving?

Besides this, I'll be more interested in how you might create those interesting 3d title effects used on ads.

I'm in favor of "Digital Post-Production" (if votes are actually being tallied here)..

as a general newbie who is quite new to effects, I support the idea. This new forum could teach me A LOT. See you around, everyone,

Clint Grant

I'm in favor of "Digital Post-Production" (if votes are actually being tallied here)..
Woohoo! Can I vote twice?
Well, there's a book out called "Digital Composition for Film and DV"...

I think that says it all. We should just go with Digital Composition.

Are you sure it's not Digital Compositing for Film and Video (ISBN 024080760X)?

Emre, oops, my bad, you are correct.

I was just at an Apple store today and saw that they have a program called Motion. It seems like a lower version of Shake.

Anyone tried using it?

there are a ton of vfx forums out there, id contribute

http://rileyharmon.com/wordpress/?p=53