i may have inadvertently posted this in the independent film section. oopps anyway.

i plan on getting a firestore system for my jvc hd100 just to save wear and tear on my camera but then I had a thought. I should just use video tape anyway because I could just sell those raw tapes to clients. Do you guys charge by the tape or included in a high end package? What do you charge for the tapes? I figure $25 a tape since the JVC PRO HD tape is $9.

Thoughts please

Yooch

Just sell them the raw material on DVD's. It's pretty inconvienent to watch a video from a camera. Putting in a dvd is much easier. Or, sell it all on a hard drive. After you edit the video you just transfer the b-roll to a seperate drive for the client (which they supply of course).

I charge about $250 for a dvd transfer. For the hard drive transfer I charge the same amount, plus the cost of a hard drive, or the client can supply the drive.

Ben Lynn

for about 3 hours raw to dvd copy(2 dvds), i charge $300 but only 6 months after they get the edited version. So even if the customer sees all the mistakes i made during shooting, or wanted to include some extra scenes, it's too late to complain. Some photographers i know give the negatives to the customers 2 years after the event. Some never do.

I charge $880 for raw footage to be transfered to DVD if tehy want it. If theyre off the street and they have a VHS tape, i charge $110 per hour
I DONT openly offer this, but its an upgrade option if tehy want it. Other times, i keep it up my sleave and if i know im going to be a while before i can get the edit to the client, i offer them the raw footage to watch (for free)

In this game, its always an idea to keep some things up your sleave and i found Raw footage to be the best way around the issue of stupid clients who dont read contracts (re - delivery times and schedules)

Also with providing footage on DVD. I found the fastest way to do this, is to capture directly as MPG2. I used to use my matrox RTx 100, but to be honest it was a headache and i couldnt do anythign with the system when it was capturing, then i got my hands on Pinnacle Studio and i now use that. Its a cheap arsed consumer editing system and the inbuilt MPG capture facility is pretty much all i use it for now. It works, its cheap and its saved alot of headache..

for about 3 hours raw to dvd copy(2 dvds), i charge $300 but only 6 months after they get the edited version. So even if the customer sees all the mistakes i made during shooting, or wanted to include some extra scenes, it's too late to complain. Some photographers i know give the negatives to the customers 2 years after the event. Some never do.
Intersting you say that. Ive had clients literally go through 12 hours worth of footag and list (by timecode) specific shots they want.
when i get it.. i look at it and tell them that they hired me as an editor to use my discretion and even though i appreciate their efforts.
If they want to be selective with the shots i have, they going to pay me studio rates to sit in with me.

One thing i put on all my raw unprocessed footage is a disclaimer that the material does NOT represent the finished product as a whole.
While shooting multicam as an example, we might have 3 cameras and while Cam 1 holds the shot, the other 2 might be moving around. The client then sees this shaky and moving fotage (as the tape doesnt stop) and get the impression that their ceremony is all fekked up or a shot was missed... They dont get that youve deliberately kept the camera rolling and until you point it out to them, they will always think that there is something wrong. I had one camer slightly off in white balance once, and the bride went ballistic at me.. unknown to her were the tools we have (ie colour correctors) so she proceeded to bitch and moan and scream her head off without me getting a word in.. were talking complete psycho here...

In about 1 minute (i kid u not.. ) while she was ranting, i had that particualr clip on the NLE, colour corrected it, took a screen grab and told her to check her email then call me back when after she reads the information on the disc (ie this material does not represent the finished product)
Sometimes u have to be a bastard to get your point across.
The thing i always try to remember though, is that they hired me for a reason and jsut becuase at this point in time of their lives, not much is happening, they feel they can walk all over people coz by far, video and photos are teh only services the bride and grooms have one the wedding is over. so theyr esitting on their time waiting for tehir wedding archives to be delivered, and if they have no social life, or theyre just feeling a lil insecure, i found that THAT is when they call up and ask how things are going.. i had one girl call me 3 days after her wedding... she didnt have a honeymoon and was feeling bored and wanted to come over to check her video out 3 DAYS were talking filming on satursday and she called on teh monday.. this same client continued to call every 3 days at 9pm precisely until her wedding was finished... This is what i mean..
Some clients, especially those that are paying for your services directly (ie not a gift from daddy dearest) are the ones which cause most of the problems coz they see it "their money" yeah sure.. but whta part of a 15 page contract dont they understand??

Whats my point..
no matter what u do.. COvER YOUR ASS... from teh smallest to the bigget thing, u dont need any more hassles by the very few uneducated morons (beleive me, youll get all kinds.. )

So puttin that disclaimer on the disc itself usually stops the questions. If a client who has seen the footage wants to use that as a reference, i tell them to not bother coz ive already doen tht ecuts and wont make changes unless their package stipulates that a preliminary copy/viewing is given.

I dont get paid enough to bust my balls like i used to..

I just use a $179 consumer DVD recorder... plug the camera into the firewire input, hit record on the recorder, and hit play on my camera.

Works perfect. Plus I use the DVD recorder for VHS dubs as well.

Later,
Dan

Hey Peter, just wanted to say you make me laugh man, I really like reading your posts and trust me I'm taking note of all these details for when I start up. Keep up the rants dude ;)

i may have inadvertently posted this in the independent film section. oopps anyway.

i plan on getting a firestore system for my jvc hd100 just to save wear and tear on my camera but then I had a thought. I should just use video tape anyway because I could just sell those raw tapes to clients. Do you guys charge by the tape or included in a high end package? What do you charge for the tapes? I figure $25 a tape since the JVC PRO HD tape is $9.

Thoughts please

Yooch

Dude... take it from me. DO NOT rely soley on that drive for any event videography.

Great. What DVD recorder do you have?

Dude... take it from me. DO NOT rely soley on that drive for any event videography.
I agree 200%.. ive goen through 3 firestores to use with Z1 and DVX and each and every one of them has given me nothing but headaches. lucky for me i kept tapes in the cames when using the firestores...

as for my rambles.. yeah dont mind me, im just a madman... ;)

actually im a real nice guy.. lol no really i am.. hahahaa

I used the Phillips DVDR3400, and in fact, it just broke tonight! I was recording some shows from my crappy Time Warner DVR and it stopped recording and won't start up again.

Well, I think I might recommend a different recorder than the Phillips, but there are many others to choose from!

Later,
Dan

I have a lite-on dvd recorder, which in my opinion is complete junk but it works for capturing tape via firewire and svhs transfers.

No to get off topic, but editing mpg via the capture is no fun. I would recommend buying a breakout box if you want to capture svhs. Avi's are much easier to edit.

Jon

I don't like to sell raw footage because that can make you look bad, however I do offer it as an extra (i also sign over the rights to edit the footage as well) This extra cost $2000 per hour of footage (2 cameras creates 2 hours of footage for 1 hour of an event)

You guys sell the raw footage? And when you buy a table you want all the sawdust and offcuts?

I don't like to sell raw footage because that can make you look bad, however I do offer it as an extra (i also sign over the rights to edit the footage as well) This extra cost $2000 per hour of footage (2 cameras creates 2 hours of footage for 1 hour of an event)

Do any consumers actually part with that much money for the raw footage? When you say "extra cost" I read that as saying this would be an additional charge over and above your normal shooting fees if they also wanted to take the raw footage in addition to the regular edited final product you deliver - am I reading that right? And we're talking about regular retail consumer's wedding footage, not commercials for broadcast use or corporate event & training videos etc? What do these people do for a living that they can even AFFORD to pay that much for something that's likely just to hide in a desk drawer until they're tossed during the divorce proceedings yard sale - sheesh, I gotta find me a new career! LOL

You guys sell the raw footage? And when you buy a table you want all the sawdust and offcuts?
hehehe eloquent way to put it...

U mind if i borrow that saying??

if a photographer can charge a grand for the negs, i dont see why we cant for the tapes...

I recently had a cleint chase me up for "compensation" coz of the "delays" it took for him to get his video.. funny thing was, i only recieved his music 2 weeks ago... in essence its his responsibility cosnidering teh fact he signed an agreement to say that he would provide music (which he didnt)
Anyways to my point..
I offered the raw footage to him for half price, considering he was an existing client.. but no, he wouldnt accept that..
So i said tough...

I charge $880 for this... raw footage.
I only provide 6 hours... no more.. even if i have more i wont do it.. if they want more, its charged at $132 per hour (studio rate) for each hour..

Ill explain why...

the wear and tear on the equipemnt (even though i have seperate capture decks and 2 workstations), the power, the discs, the wear and tear on my eqquipment... my time in authoring these discs (i capture MPG with Pinnacle Studio 9, then trim the fat)
this all takes time, effort and resources.
Nothign is free my friends and if we give this free.. then we lose out..
HOWEVER.. in saying.. keeping SOME things under ur hat until the time is needed pays off..

now many cases, if i am delayed by my own doing, I will gladly offer raw footage to a client who has been patient and who hasnt bitched at me. It works as a way to comepnsate, but only if its done properly. In saying that, i woudlnt offer it willy nilly to anyone, especialy those that dont read their contracts but still want compo...

I am fair to a point of being ridiculous, however we all msut draw a line as to what we will do to comensate a client. Refunds are not possible. OCnsiderng that no matter what u do, you STILL have to do the work, so refunding $$ is jsut silly.. coz then ur working for free and we all have bills to pay.. so in turn, offering additional copies, or raw footage like this gives the client something which they think has $$ value, but in fact its really not all that expensive.

This is why raw footage should be charged at no less than 800 bux.. GIVE it value and make it known as a valued product. It can then be used in other ways which will increase business or offer a "compromise" for clients who have issues.

Dont devalue it...

jsut becuase at this point in time of their lives, not much is happening, they feel they can walk all over people coz by far, video and photos are teh only services the bride and grooms have one the wedding is over. so theyr esitting on their time waiting for tehir wedding archives to be delivered, and if they have no social life...

lol, right right

...client continued to call every 3 days at 9pm precisely until her wedding was finished...

o my, yes I had that happen too, and she was a fairly good friend (of course I did it A WHOLE LOT cheaper) not musch friends anymore though...wonder why? except she called me at 2pm.

...but whta part of a 15 page contract dont they understand?? ...

wow, that's a long contract, mine is only 5 1/2 pages! I don't mean to be snopy and all, but would you mind me taking a look at your contract, so that I may be able to cover myself more than Iam? If not that's ok...thought I would try...

Back on topic...raw footage, I like to use in case something goes wrong or a mistake I make, and I can use that as leverage to "Pay them off."

LOL
I was exhagerating mate.. i really thought about fixing this typo, btu i got lazy.. lol

ok, my contract is in 3 parts

Part 1 (Package and Invoice details <inc extras etc final costing blah blah) -2Pages max

Part 2 is Wedding Production information <the COnditional requirements of the contract. Being the info they provide me, from names, to locations to music etc etc etc. No editing can begin begin until these conditions are met.. THis could also beconsidered the info they provide me
2Pages actual info, 1 page signing and "where did u hear about us blah blah)

Part 3 is the General Agreement, which is the info i give them. 5 Pages + 1 signing. THis covered EVERYTHING... and i mean EVERYTHING.. hell if the MC doesnt gimme a headsup and i go to take a piss, and miss a shot, im covered... this is what i mean by everything.. lol


"Back on topic...raw footage, I like to use in case something goes wrong or a mistake I make, and I can use that as leverage to "Pay them off."

I do somethign similar.. i havent made msitake yet.. (knock on wood) but with teh time it takes for me to get the stuff out to them, i use raw footage as a means to hold them off... I tell them its worth $880 bux so they believe there is value to it, and to be honest, ther eIS value to it, were talking time it takes to cpature and author to DVD, as well as the media itself..