Does anybody know what settings to use on the XL2 to recreate the look of 8mm film? I want to try and get the same kind of look that is used in the PBS TV show Globetrekker. They use this look for cutaways. Any pointers? Do I need to do it in post? I use FCE so any settings I need for post would need to be available in that.

TIA

Colin

Does anybody know what settings to use on the XL2 to recreate the look of 8mm film? I want to try and get the same kind of look that is used in the PBS TV show Globetrekker. They use this look for cutaways. Any pointers? Do I need to do it in post? I use FCE so any settings I need for post would need to be available in that.

TIA

Colin

Don't know anything about the settings to use but IMHO that sort of thing is best left for post anyway. If you've recorded your camera original with any effects and later you find they just don't work as well as you thought they would, you're stuck up ye olde creek without a paddle. Adding them in post means you can always try something else if your initial ideas don't work out.

Don't know anything about the settings to use but IMHO that sort of thing is best left for post anyway. If you've recorded your camera original with any effects and later you find they just don't work as well as you thought they would, you're stuck up ye olde creek without a paddle. Adding them in post means you can always try something else if your initial ideas don't work out.

I agree with you. I am not sure how I would recreate it in Post either so I was hoping to get some idea from the XL2 settings.

Send me a link to a grab or some footage and I will tell you the settings... I am thinking low shutter, high setup level, desaturated and noise... all that you CAN do in camera...



ash =o)

Send me a link to a grab or some footage and I will tell you the settings... I am thinking low shutter, high setup level, desaturated and noise... all that you CAN do in camera...



ash =o)


Hi Ash,

I will have to try and get a screen grab next time the show is on (Sat).
Basically the effect is oversaturated, darker, lower resolution and flickering, compared to the original.

Colin

I have placed a screen grab of the effect I am talking about at:

http://www.optikvervelabs.com/xl2/settings.jpg

I am looking to get that kind of look from either the XL2 or in post in FCE.

I am new to FCE so do not know enough yet to be able to recreate the look.

Thanks,

Colin

Try this...

Tiffen Black Pro Mist Filter
White Balance: WARM (use a light blue card to balance to)
Shutter speed: 1/24th (you might try shooting in 60i and going to 1/15th)
Gain: try experiementing to get some grain at +6db to +12db
This will give you a LOT of light that you will need to crush with either the ND filters or aperature.

Gamma = Cine
Knee = Low
Black = Press
NR = Off
VDetail = Normal
Color Matrix = Cine
Color Gain = +2
Color Phase = 0
Red = 0
Green = +3
Blue = 0
Sharpness = -6
Coring = -6
SetupLevel = -6
MasterPed = -6



ash =o)

Thanks Ash,

I will give that a try. I assume the filter is to give the softer image without blooming the highlights,

Colin

With a shutter speed of 1/24, you're going to lose a lot of the filmic flavor to the motion and it's going to look more like 30p. I wouldn't go any slower than 1/60.

Adjust your light intake accordingly.

If you want to do this in post, in general, you would increase your saturation and crush your blacks. The better way of crushing the blacks would be to use a color curve and adjust the RGB curve by flattening out the lower left corner.

Then add a little bit of film grain.

With a shutter speed of 1/24, you're going to lose a lot of the filmic flavor to the motion and it's going to look more like 30p. I wouldn't go any slower than 1/60.

Adjust your light intake accordingly.

If you want to do this in post, in general, you would increase your saturation and crush your blacks. The better way of crushing the blacks would be to use a color curve and adjust the RGB curve by flattening out the lower left corner.

Then add a little bit of film grain.

He wants the look of 8mm footage... 1/60th wont get close and would make no sense if he was shooting in 24p anyway. The standard shutter is 1/48th, not sure where you are getting 1/60th. A 1/24th shutter in 24P wont look anything like 30p... it actually adds MORE motion blur where 30p would add less. The lower the shutter the more blur in motion, emulating the slow shutter of old 8mm footage. It is a lot harder to create motion effects in post... if you are going to be editing in DV it is best to get as close to your final image in camera as you can... if you are editing uncompressed, it doesnt matter as much.




ash =o)

Thanks Ash,

I will give that a try. I assume the filter is to give the softer image without blooming the highlights,

Colin

Yes that filter will help it look a little more film-like, add some diffusion and take off the digital edge.



ash =o)

To add to the film-like effects from the good advice of Ash et al., QuickTime Pro ($30) will allow you to easily add other ‘film artifacts’.

Sliders for ‘Hairs and scratches’ and ‘Dust and Film Fading’ can be found under Export [to QuickTime] -> Options -> Movie Settings -> [video] Filter -> Special Effects -> Film noise. Other effects available are Color Style, Color Tint and Lens Flare.

To add to the film-like effects from the good advice of Ash et al., QuickTime Pro ($30) will allow you to easily add other ‘film artifacts’.

Sliders for ‘Hairs and scratches’ and ‘Dust and Film Fading’ can be found under Export [to QuickTime] -> Options -> Movie Settings -> [video] Filter -> Special Effects -> Film noise. Other effects available are Color Style, Color Tint and Lens Flare.

I have QT Pro so I will try that too. I seem to remember that when I exported from from QT Pro before, it screwed up the aspect ratio flag (I assume there must be a flag) causing the 16:9 to become 4:3 when cut to a DVD set at 16:9.
Any ideas on what settings to use to avoid this? I use iDVD to burn DVDs.

Colin

He wants the look of 8mm footage... 1/60th wont get close and would make no sense if he was shooting in 24p anyway. The standard shutter is 1/48th, not sure where you are getting 1/60th. A 1/24th shutter in 24P wont look anything like 30p... it actually adds MORE motion blur where 30p would add less. The lower the shutter the more blur in motion, emulating the slow shutter of old 8mm footage. It is a lot harder to create motion effects in post... if you are going to be editing in DV it is best to get as close to your final image in camera as you can... if you are editing uncompressed, it doesnt matter as much.

An equivalent to a 24p 1/24 shutter doesn't exist in the film camera world, because it means that the camera's "eye" is always open. That's impossible in a film camera, because there needs to be time in between frames to advance the film from one frame to the next.

A 1/24 shutter in 24p loses a great deal of film-like motion precisely BECAUSE of the motion blur. There needs to be a slight stutter between frames, because film ALWAYS has it and it's physicaly impossible for it not to.

While it's certainly subject to personal taste, a 1/60 shutter produces a very pleasing film motion cadence. You could go as slow as 1/48, but I surely would not recommend anything any slower if you want to keep a filmic motion cadence.

An equivalent to a 24p 1/24 shutter doesn't exist in the film camera world, because it means that the camera's "eye" is always open. That's impossible in a film camera, because there needs to be time in between frames to advance the film from one frame to the next.

A 1/24 shutter in 24p loses a great deal of film-like motion precisely BECAUSE of the motion blur. There needs to be a slight stutter between frames, because film ALWAYS has it and it's physicaly impossible for it not to.

While it's certainly subject to personal taste, a 1/60 shutter produces a very pleasing film motion cadence. You could go as slow as 1/48, but I surely would not recommend anything any slower if you want to keep a filmic motion cadence.

What shutter speed would you suggest to recreate early hand cranked movie cameras? Surely that would be a lot slower than 1/60. Then in post increase the frame rate a lttle to get that Keystone Kops look. No?

Colin

Well, the problem there is that the hand-cranked movies varied in frame rate and were often much slower than 24 fps -- 8, 12, 16, 18 . . . all were common.

But you've got the right idea -- if you use a 1/24 shutter in 24p and then speed it up 200% on a 24p timeline, you get the eqivalent of 12 fps film projected at 24 fps and it may get you the look you're seeking.

Well, the problem there is that the hand-cranked movies varied in frame rate and were often much slower than 24 fps -- 8, 12, 16, 18 . . . all were common.

But you've got the right idea -- if you use a 1/24 shutter in 24p and then speed it up 200% on a 24p timeline, you get the eqivalent of 12 fps film projected at 24 fps and it may get you the look you're seeking.

I will have to see what that looks like. I would guess 200% would be too much of a speed increase. 18fps equiv may be better.

But we seem to be straying a little from the original XL2 content

Colin

Colin after you try some of these settings suggested to you it would be great if you can post a frame grab and show us what you got.

Colin after you try some of these settings suggested to you it would be great if you can post a frame grab and show us what you got.

That is a good suggestion Scott. Once I have played around a bit I will certainly do that.

Colin

Just do what I said =o)

David I respect your opinion but every professional DP I know uses 1/48 shutter to recreate the perfect film motion cadence. Cameras like the Varicam which I use quite often have a shutter off setting which is equivalent to 1/48



ash =o)