View Full Version : My first video DVD.....auuughhhhh!!!HELP


Bruce Pelley
June 6th, 2006, 07:27 PM
Late last week I finally burned my first DVD and was so very dissapointed!Yes,I have an old version of AP 6.5 but had much higher expectations because in my book quality is very important.The issue here is a high loss of video quality,excessively so.I used a Staples + DVD,burned at 8 speed on U-LEAD's DVD workshop Pro SE or whatever it was called.I did not burn this at home using my own pc but at a friends and do not know their system specs. I do know he had plenty of ram.

Of course when it was ready I first exported this to the standard MPEG-4 format which creates seperate audio and video files from a project.Maybe that was my mistake right there but don't know what options there is besides that so here I am.Ok so here's the beef!

Checked the preburn file/project size which was around 9.2 gigs or 45 minutes of footage.The resulting MPEG combined file was compressed to only around 1.7 gigs or so and what a difference in quality that appeared to make to the worse!!By that I mean this:BEFORE...watching the finalized production by:
1)hooking up the GL-2 to the TV and playing it on minidv tape it looked very good.Preburn size/non-compressed video.
2)Playback on my computer was almost as good.Again preburn sized video.

AFTER:as directly compared to.... playing the freshly burned disc in the dvd player which was connected to the tv.To me it very clearly lost significant resolution,sharpness,color,brilliancy and looked dull,greyish and shadowy!What went wrong?How can I get back as much as the original quality possible the next time around?Is there a better process and method available in Premiere 6.5?Can I export to another format and then burn a dvd?

does the brand of the dvd disc make any difference?
does the speed the disc is burned at contribute one way or the other?
does using a "plus" versus a "minus" disc meaningful?
Does the format its exported to make a huge difference?
What dvd program do you use to burn dvd's?
What should I do the next time around?

Please guys,I'm asking for any positive workarounds,possibilities,suggestions,reccomendations and commentary because this is being shoen on cable tv?

Thanks,

Bruce has done it once..but hopefully not again if at all possible!

Bob Schneider
June 6th, 2006, 09:55 PM
does the brand of the dvd disc make any difference?
does the speed the disc is burned at contribute one way or the other?
does using a "plus" versus a "minus" disc meaningful?
Does the format its exported to make a huge difference?
What dvd program do you use to burn dvd's?
What should I do the next time around?

Bruce,

Yes, the brand of disc makes a difference, but I doubt that is your problem.
Yes, the speed of burning also plays a role.
The plus/minus issue is primarily a compatability issue with various dvd players.
The format should be mpeg2. Different programs use different trancoding software. (transcoding converts your dv into mpeg2 for dvd discs.) Your Ulead software should do a decent job of transcoding, but you must use the proper settings. I'm not sure if it offers 2 pass as an option, but you need to set it to the highest quality. It will probably take a few test runs at various settings before you find the optimum setting. Unfortunately, it is a time consuming endeavor to transcode video into mpeg2. Don't expect to achieve the same quality of your original footage on a dvd disc using standard dv. Mpeg2 is compressed. The settings used when transcoding it, and the software you use will play a role in the final outcome. However if done correctly, you can achieve fine results.

I am no expert, but do a search on these forums and there is plenty to learn.

Good luck

Bob

Christopher Lefchik
June 6th, 2006, 11:37 PM
Bob offered good advice. As he said, use MPEG-2, not MPEG-4. MPEG-2 is the only format used for DVD-Video disks.

And yes, the manufacturer of the DVD media you use can make a definite difference, but not in the way you may expect. Unlike with, say, VHS videotape used for analog recordings where the quality of the media can affect the actual sharpness and color quality, DVD Video is all digital, ones and zeros. So in this case the quality of the DVD affects the ability of the DVD burner to achieve a good quality DVD burn, and the DVD player to read those ones and zeros, as well as the overall longevity of the DVD. It also affects the general compatibility of the DVD media with DVD burners and players.

In general you will get good DVD media if you buy only DVD media that is manufactured in Japan. Check the package each time before you purchase, as you can't rely on any particular brand name. Most brand names source from a variety of manufacturers, some good, some bad.

But you can use this information for future reference, because as Bob said - and I fully agree with him - it is doubtful the media you are using is the cause of this particular problem.

Lars Siden
June 7th, 2006, 12:34 AM
U-LEAD's DVD workshop is IMHO not a good program. It almost alway recompresses the video, even if you input a fine MPEG2.

General rules:

1. Do only ONE conversion, that is AVI -> MPEG2 suitable for DVD
2. Make absolutely 110% sure that the DVD creating program do NOT recompress the video

and some hints:

3. Make chapter points
4. Make sceneselections from the chapter points


Good luck!

// Lazze

ps. there are like a 100 threads here discussing quality of different MPEG2 encoders ds.

George Odell
June 7th, 2006, 02:50 PM
If you only used up 1.7 gigs of the entire DVD your data rate may have been set too low. While it is best not to exceed around 7000kb/s if you want the final result to be playable on most set top players and computer drives, you can probably stand to go up on your settings.

By my calculations, you were encoding somewhere around 3500kb/s on average.
Test with the most difficult to encode (the fastest moving) scenes on your video.

Bruce Pelley
June 7th, 2006, 06:41 PM
In between workhours I've been trying to give myself a crash course on MPEG 2's but still have a lot of unanswered questions.

First of all some rejoinder and some additional comments.

George,As far as the data rate goes,since I was at a friends place and watching him use U Lead to burn the dvd I have no idea what settings were used.Based on the results it wouldn't surprise me if it was half of the possible quality.I wish Pro 2.0 didn't cost an arm and a leg because then I could use dvd templates and see what works best for my particular situation.Is there any such thing for Premiere 6.5?What export settings are there do pick from?What's reccomended?Are their settings within Premiere or are they contained in the dvd program?Do I need a software video convertor/transcoder program or plug-in of some sort?Can't afford expensive hardware right now.

Lars,when choosing a DVD program,how will I know if it will do additional compression even on top of the already compressed video/MPEG 2 file assuming I can get to the point where I can create an MPEG 2 file? What programs do you suggest to avoid this issue?Since apparently,the default and only selection I have with the 6.5 built-in Adobe Media encoder is MPEG and the resulting file always comes out as an MPEG 4 (which is undesirable) what can I do to have another option upon attempting to export the timeline for dvd authoring?

Is it possible to change the codec,or to add more in ap 6.5?If so,I have no clue how it's done.

Another stupid question but it must be asked.If a plug-in or a transcoder is the answer,how do I incorporate them to work with? Premiere.I wish there wasn't a huge learning curve ahead of me!

What do you gentlemen reccomend for a solution given my older edition of premiere which has limitations apparently?Really,anyone please feel free to wade in in any way despite particular names being addressed.

At least I'm somewhat closer to solving the problem.

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Christopher Lefchik
June 7th, 2006, 07:21 PM
There's no need for you to purchase a DVD authoring program, as Premiere 6.5 comes bundled with Sonic DVDit LE for DVD authoring. As far as exporting MPEG-2 from Premiere 6.5, I can't tell you. You should really check the section on exporting in the Premiere manual/help file.

Bruce Pelley
June 7th, 2006, 08:23 PM
Nor do I have Sonic DVDit LE.

Version 6 of their full edition lists for $300 at their website which is pricey.

Maybe I can find it free or close to it somewhere.

Bruce

Lars Siden
June 8th, 2006, 01:11 AM
I seriously doubt that you only can do MPEG4 with premiere - read the manual/help file. There are a good MPEG2 encoder included.

IMHO, ULEAD DVD is hard to please - if possible: choose "never transcode/recode", so that it burns your files exactly as you deliver them.

Do a google on "Tutorial for making DVD with prorgam xxxx" - you'll get numerous of hits.

//Lazze

Bob Schneider
June 8th, 2006, 06:19 AM
Bruce,

I don't know if your version 6.x Premiere has a mpeg 2 trancoder built in, but if it does not, you can upgrade to Premiere Pro 2.0 for $199. That will allow you to transcode to mpeg2 and burn dvd's right from the program. I have also used Ulead to burn dvd's, that program came free with my Pioneer $69 dvd burner. I could not see any difference between the results from that program, or the results which came from the built-in Main Concept transcoder inside Premiere.

Bob

Lars Siden
June 8th, 2006, 07:24 AM
Bruce,

The best way using ULEAD is probably to give it the AVI file directly, maybe that was what you did?

Then you'll only have ONE encoding - and that is the most important thing!


// Lazze

Bruce Pelley
June 8th, 2006, 10:31 AM
How about I skip the timeline export function entirely and save the whole project as one huge avi file..anotherwords.. pretend that the whole thing is a super long "clip" saving it as a movie without the MPEG 4 encoding?Of course that assumes there are no titles which are not saved as an avi file when they are created,it's.prnt or something like that.Then using Main concepts encoder application it gets directly compressed to MPEG 2 format?Of course I'd have to buy that.Any free encoders out there that can do the job?Sorry that money counts.. the budget is running out since I just spent a bunch on the GL-2 and other equipment.

Recently I just got an internal DVD/CD combo burner but that came with Nero software which I am not all that crazy about.Anybody have anything to say about it one way or the other in relation to its dvd burning capabilities/rate of success or lack thereof?

I'm waiting for an acquaintance to be available so he can install the thing and have no idea when that will occur.

Whats you favorite brand of dvd disc?

More latter.

Thanks.
Bruce

Ervin Farkas
June 8th, 2006, 12:02 PM
Bruce,

There is a good DVD blank comparison by brand here: www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm (for which I do not assume responsibilbity but so far it coincides with my experience). Try TDK DVD+Rs from Costco, they are one of the highest rated in this document and affordable if you're on a budget.

As far as the mpeg2 encoder, since your burner came with Nero, give Nero a try! You might be pleased with it. So do just what you asked: export the timeline as a movie and then use Nero to burn the DVD using the resulting file as source. I have done it and it works fine. Later on as you gain experience, you will find better ways of doing it (better mpeg2 encoders), but this is a good way to start.

And don't get discouraged... we've all been there...

Christopher Lefchik
June 8th, 2006, 12:44 PM
Nor do I have Sonic DVDit LE.

Version 6 of their full edition lists for $300 at their website which is pricey.

Maybe I can find it free or close to it somewhere.

Bruce
You said you have Premiere version 6.5. Adobe Premiere version 6.5 did come bundled with Sonic DVDit LE. It may well require a separate install, however. It could be on the Premiere 6.5 install CD, or it may be a separate CD on the back of a swing out tray in the same jewel case (that was how SmartSound QuickTracks for Premiere 6 was bundled).

Christopher Lefchik
June 8th, 2006, 12:48 PM
Recently I just got an internal DVD/CD combo burner but that came with Nero software which I am not all that crazy about.Anybody have anything to say about it one way or the other in relation to its dvd burning capabilities/rate of success or lack thereof?
The Nero suite is good, though I've never tried it's DVD authoring capabilities. However, if you can't find your bundled version of Sonic DVDit LE I would recommend trying Nero, as Ervin said. You may be pleasantly surprised.

George Odell
June 11th, 2006, 09:54 AM
I also use Premiere 6.5. I use the cheap ($50) version of Ulead's DVD authoring product called Movie Factory 5 (I just got 5 after having 3 for years.... same basic product as 3 but easier to use and much more stable). Movie Factory has the same encoding engine as the higher end products it just has less of the flair.

I export my AVI (DV25 file) as a movie and import it into Movie Factory. I can set the compression/encoding data rate to anything I want, any audio rate I want, add chapters, add menu pages, etc. Ulead will tell you when you are exceeding the capacity of the DVD (there is a bar running along the bottom) and then you just back off on the data rate. It's a breeze to use, really. Also, the forum for MF is well supported by folks who really know the product.

The result is impressive. Clean DV in makes for a very clean DVD-R. My clients love it and some have had others make DVD's they were not happy with.

Now, you can export Mpeg2 from within Premiere 6.5 using the MainConcept plug-in that comes with it. I have done that to make reduced size, yet broadcast quality files to send via the internet. Again, you can set the encoding compression to anything you want.... up to 9mb/s I think. I have a friend who does his wedding videos that way. I just prefer to let Ulead MF do the conversion and make the final DVD, as well.

BTW: I tried Sonic early on and never liked the end result, for what it's worth.

Now, I will give you a tip but you must promise not to tell anyone else. I have found the easiest way to make an "authored" DVD, especially from a tape master, is to use a set-top DVD recorder. I have a Samsung I paid $99 for, new. It has DV in along with everything else. I use it to make my Mpeg2 compression onto a DVD-RW at either the 1 hour (if it will fit) or the 2 hour data rate. I then take that to my computer and import the raw Mpeg2 file into Movie Factory 5 (you must use 5 to make this work, the early versions were error prone). Then I add my chapters, my menus, my music openings and then I tell MF5 to remultiplex to a DVD-R. It will not re-encode the Mpeg2 so there is no loss of quality. What you got from the initial recording is identical but with the added fancy stuff to impress your family and friends.

George

PS: I have no connection to Ulead.

Bruce Pelley
June 11th, 2006, 10:35 PM
It sounds like you've definitely "been there and done that"! as I need mentoring,advice and know-how.

First of all thanks SO much for taking the time to give me great hope and cause for optimism going forward.I was scratching my aging head just trying to figure out how I was going to come up with an MPEG 2 file when trying to export the timeline from Premiere 6.5.All I can get (the only option I can see) is MPEG 4 encoding which is hightly undesirable.Maybe my Premiere set-up/software is incomplete or missing something! BTW,I don't have the Main Concepts encoder/program as a option right now either as a stand alone application or built-in/bundled with AP 6.5.

Did you buy Media Studio 5 direct from Ulead or another source for $50?That sounds pretty reasonable to me at that price for what it does according to your description.I downloaded their 30 day trial version but haven't installed it yet.

I know nothing about "set-top" dvd recorders but am eager to learn.Your tip definitely intrigues me even though I just had a brand new internal dvd/cd combo burner installed into my computer just this past weekend.Would you mind please giving me the Samsung model number (or a web/hyperlink) you're using which yields so much satisfaction & results? My goal is to achieve as high a quality as possible with minimal loss.

Are you telling me that you export your whole/finished project as an avi file,bypassing the export timeline feature within the program?Sorry,I didn't quite understand that.Would you care to please elaborate on that statement for a guy whose just starting out?

To be continued...got to get some sleep..

Thanks so much,
Bruce

George Odell
June 12th, 2006, 08:04 AM
First off, the product is called Ulead Movie Factory 5. It's the consumer version. You can get it at most retail stores like Best Buy, Staples, CompUSA, etc.

I export from Premiere as a movie. Yellow bar the entire time line and tell Premiere to export as a single AVI DV25 file. DV25 is the file format used for all DV video. It is the native format for Premiere 6.5.

I happen to use the Mainconcept DV25 codec (a commercial plug-in for around $50) for better quality but just going down one time with the internal Microsoft DV25 codec that comes with Premiere 6.5 will work OK.

This new "standalone" movie file is what I import into Movie Factory 5. You said you have the trial version so give it a try.

Bruce Pelley
June 12th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Would you please be willing to share this method in detail with me as I like this approach!!!

Thanks,
Bruce

George Odell
June 13th, 2006, 06:21 AM
Any current model DVD-R will work. You are just using the recorder as a hardware Mpeg2 converter... much like having a card in your computer.

Bob Schneider
June 13th, 2006, 07:38 AM
George,

It sounds like you are essentially using the set top dvd recorder as a mpeg2 encoder. You are first editing your footage on your computer using Premiere or whatever, then exporting it back to tape (your camera), then plugging your camera into your set top dvd recorder via firewire to record/convert the footage to dvd (mpeg2). If I am correct, how do you then author that already burned dvd? And does that set top dvd recorder encode and burn your dv footage to a disc any faster, than say your computer hardware and Ulead software would?

Bob

George Odell
June 13th, 2006, 08:52 AM
Apples and oranges, Bob. Two different applications.

I use Premiere 6.5 if I'm creating a video for a client from camera original footage that I (or the client) shot. That being the case I will export the finished project as an AVI and import into Movie Factory to author the DVD-R.

Now I also get in videos (VHS, Hi-8, DV, etc.) that the client wants on a DVD-R. Rather than capture them in to my computer system (sometimes 20 or more 2 hour tapes in a shoe box) I feed them in to my set top DVD-R (I have several). That gets me the hardware (real time) Mpeg2 conversion....raw Mpeg2 data.

Then I walk that finalized DVD-RW (RW so I can keep reusing them) over to one of my computers and tell Movie Factory to import the Mpeg2 data. I add chapter points and menu screens and music, if need be. Then MF authors the project and re-multiplexes the Mpeg2. It does not re-encode it. There is no loss of quality. Whatever the data rate was set for in the set top recorder is the data rate on the DVD-R. No change whatsoever.

As to speed. The set-top records in real time. The time to author and remultiplex takes about an or so hour more. Sometimes I forget to go back to start the next operation... import | create chapters | make menu | burn. I can have several going at once... recording... burning.

Here's the deal. There is no comsumer level set-top recorder out there that makes a DVD-R that will play back in EVERY set-top player out there. They all have issues of compatability, some worse than others. Type in any model you're looking at buying on Google and you'll see for yourself. The Samsung I use makes DVD's that won't play in 70% of the players out there including some models made by Samsung.

After they're authored and re-multiplexed they're perfect!

Look, if you're "in the biz" like I am you cannot keep redoing DVD's for everyone "cause they don't play in my player". If you author them with good software they will never come back. They will always play unless you use too high a data rate. Keep it under 7mbs, use Verbatim DVD-R blanks (not DVD+R) and you should be fine.


(Added 6/14) I forgot to mention two things. First, only use Pioneer burners. They wrote the book on DVD burners and they ARE the industry standard for compatibility. Second, never burn faster than 8X. In fact, if you really want to get anal about it... never burn faster than 4X.

George