Calling all event people ... I am in need of some very serious help. If there's another forum that might have more people that deal with dance recitals ... feel free to send me a PM. I have to change things up for next year or give it up.

I haven't been able to get the specific information I'm looking for in previous posts, so I'm going to dig even deeper.

I'm attempting to find out what others are charging for their services. I've had some say they charge xx amount to show up and then xx for the videos ... but no one ever says what xx is!

I'm just looking for a few brave souls to step up and let me know what it is they're charging. I have no idea if I'm going overboard with pricing or under charging.

Here's what I've been doing:

Dance Recital #1 ...

* Single camera
* Edit out the down time between numbers (less than an hour)
* Final video approximately 2 hours long
* Title on the front end ... no additional graphics on video such as names of songs or groups
* Packaged in a Trim-pak clear DVD/CD case (i.e. no inserts ... the name shows through from the DVD)
* Selling price is $25
* DVDs are distributed by the studio

How many would you need to sell to make this worth your time?

The last two years I sold 35 videos ... this year only about 25.


Dance Recital #2

* Opening montage from picture day and a rehearsal ... 3 to 4 minutes long
* 2 camera shoot of the performance (actually a live switch to save editing time)
* Edit out down time between numbers
* Title on front end ... no additional graphics on video such as names of songs or groups
* Selling price is $35 per night
* Final video approximately 140 to 160 minutes, used to be compressed to fit on one DVD, but splitting to two volume set this year to increase the quality of the video
* Packaged in Trim-pak celar DVD case (i.e. no inserts ... the name shows through from the DVD)
* Selling price is $35 per night
* DVDs are mailed directly to each student

I do three nights of recitals for the last group. The opening montage is the same for all three. Otherwise, each night is considered a separate recital and sold separately. There is no discount for all three.

How much would YOU charge?

In 2004 I sold a total of 175 videos over the three night recital.
In 2005 I sold a total of 141 videos over the three nights
This year I'm only at around a total of 70. I know there will be more, but I doubt that it doubles.

The strange thing is ... when I first started offering them a DVD at $45 ... the number of orders jumped ... but has steadly declined even though I reduced it the following year to $35.

Proposed changes for next year:

Sales have dropped over the last few years. Some students are in as many as 10 dances. With costumes easily costing $60 to $100 per routine, tickets for parents being $15 per night, and a ton of photography packages (I won't even get into the $$ on competition teams) ... I just feel like the $35 per night is too much for them to continue to afford.

In the past I've put each night on its own DVD, but I'm convinced the compression has hurt the quality, so this year (even though sales are down) I'm going to go with a two disk set for each night.

Packaging ... I'm going to either put them in a dual jewel box or double Amaray case with insert.

I'm highly considering telling the studio that I will do the video next year under the following conditions ... that we cut out the opening montage. This takes another day of shooting and additional editing that obviously does nothing for the sale of the DVD. Im sure they're having me do it because THEY like it. And NO ... I'm sure they won't pay me separately to produce it.

So ... cut out the opening and sell each night (a dual set) for $29 (mailed). That's option #1.

Option number two would be to go to a single camera shoot @ $25 (mailed).

Again ... I would really like to have specific $$ amounts included in your answer if at all possible.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

hmm.. interesting package..

however as a general rule, i wont shoot for less than $132/hr and I wont edit for anything less than $220/hr Studio Time including processing rendering..

Dunno if that helps any, but I can accomodate any studio, any environment and any NLE the client may choose.. In addition, i been doing this for about 6 or so years, been an audio engineer for 13 of those and have 4 cameras... so that can be seen as a justification of price..

In your case, i would ask for a retainer and wouldnt rely on sales alone..

In addition, i would ask the venues to charge an extra 2 dollars per head to cover your retiner OR to go towards produciton of the DVD's

In addition, I would have a MINIMUM PURCHASE agreement made to the school or whatever.. basically they MUST purchase X amount of DVDs for a discounted rate, lets say 30 units at 20bux each... then they sell it at the RRP (which u have set to eitehr 25 or 30 bux)
If they want more, the school must order another batch (again at a disconted rate at 10 unit incremenets) Another 20bux a copy for you while they sell em for 30...Theyre still making profit and so are u ..

This way, you make definite sales. This way they make a profit for the school (or so they think) and your not wasting your time tryin to flog off DVD's to faceless pupils/performers who u have no access of marketing your goods to.. if the school wants to make money on this, they can push it for you. Let THEM do the marketing... its their event...

With the advnet of cheap media and DVD burners coming in at 50bux a pop, its cheaper for them in the longrun to rack up afew copies of tehir own and bootloeg your work.. believe me it happens and we all suffer from it..

Hopefully when BD is released, we can bolt on some DRM to our work and stop this shit, btu its not going to happen..

as for runs which youve had, those figures arent too bad.. One thing though, would be that if u notice that these fgirues are going over the 50 unit mark, get the DVD pressed professionally.. it wont stop the rippers and each disc will come to about 2 to 3 bux each, but in the end, it will slow down those that are tryin to rip u off..

The wife and I own a dance studio. Yours truly also does our recital videos. Having an 'in' with other studios, I'm able to branch out and do others as well.
By having all of my own equipment, I'm also able to underbid other production companies also.

A typical recital package from me...
I charge 'x' amount per DVD, with a MINIMUM purchase order; usually at least 70+ DVDs per recital. I don't offer VHS... because they're a pain and usually the DVD to VHS ratio is like 120:1. So it's not worth it.

I would try to find out what others in your area are charging. I good way to go would be to actually contact the dance studios and find out what they're being charged! If you can go lower, they may go with you!

Since you're wondering what 'x' is... it's usually anywhere from 17-22 per DVD. And of course, the more they order, the cheaper it is. Studios will sell their DVDs for $40+, so it's almost an even split. I also provide the labels and cases and put a nice little music video on the front.

So you only charge $17 to $22 for a DVD????
No personal disrespect, but man, your giving your product away.

I charge $25 for VHS and $35 for DVD. They come in full size complete color coverage customized cases and each are also personalized.

A photo montage is included on the DVD to encourage the parents to buy them, as they have this year.

We accept Mastercard and Visa and that helps tremendously as most pay with that form.

We keep the VHS in there and at the lower price so the poorer parents can still afford something.

Our 5 recitals last anywhere from 2.5 to 5 hours long.
The pricing stays the same.

We have contracts with all our studios that no videotaping is allowed, among other terms.

We deliver them to the studio when we finish in approximately 100 days, and they distribute them with copies of the order forms.

We usually sell to half to 2/3's of the parents.
We are pretty happy with our totals. We averaged a little over $1500 from each of the 5 show's, except 1 was almost double of that!

This year, out of 400 orders, we only have had 11 VHS orders. What a relief!

That's how ours are in a nutshell Scott.
:>)

Kathy

Thanks Kat ...

I've just about determined that the last thing I now need to do is lower the price from $35. Even though I still think these parents are getting hammered with everything else. If I drop the price too much I'm going to have to really increase the number in sales to make up for it.

BTW ... neither of my studios request a cut of the sales, so I'm keeping it all.

I must first admit that I am relatively new to videography (about 5-6 months) and I've never recorded any sort of dance recitals. I have recorded several stage shows however, (most consist of large casts of kids) and have produced DVDs for purchase. I set the price at $15 a DVD and have sold between 60-75 a show with 30-40 kids involved. These were three cam shoots, multi-cam edits so it was easy, burned to DVD with VERY simple cases. Spent all of 10-15 hours total time of work for a 1.5 hour show. I'd love to pay myself $175 per hour for this kind of project, but I can't imagine charging $25-45 for an hour-long DVD. I know if I had charged even $25, I would have had like 20-30 orders...which means $150-300 LESS than selling more DVDs at a slightly lower price.

Wow! You guys are doing great with your recital and play pricing. Maybe it has to do with location (I'm North of Atlanta).

I got into video after I saw a company come in and charge $15 per video for a 5th grade play. I figured they must have got close to 200 orders. I did that same play/school two years later at the same price and only got 35 orders- ouch.

For the most part I charge $25. The dance studio gets $5. My 13 yo daughter gets $2 (second cam operator) and I get $18.

I give them to a mom who distributes- so no mailing. I print the DVDs and I design covers for the binders (photoshop/illustrator junkie).

I do a very good job as the videos are actually fun to watch. I edit video montage from each dance into a kind of music video and I get a lot of interviews of the kids.

I'm always on my own, meaning I'm not getting a $1.00 a head from the gate which would be very nice. It seems to be the practice here that the studio won't take a hit or pay anything up front or in addition.

I feel very good if I get 50 orders for each recital.

I know I'm not making a lot of money. This is my second year in the business. I'm using the recitals to get the practice and the equipment I need to feel comfortable doing weddings.

-Scott

So you only charge $17 to $22 for a DVD????
No personal disrespect, but man, your giving your product away.

No disrespect taken.

A studio I did work for last year only ordered 120. That was $22 per DVD.

The last studio I did ordered 1,000 DVDs. I charged them $17 per DVD.

They sold them for $45, making 28k off DVD sales.

I also discount for payments in cash.

I make a nice DVD, throw it in the mass duplicator and about 9 long hours later I'm done with the copies. Throw a nice label on each and every one (that part does blow), slap it in a cheap cover and I'm done.

They're pleased. I'm pleased.

Giving my product away? The people that the studio used last charged them $1,500 for 70 VHS tapes... and then charged extra for DVDs and extra VHS tapes.

I can assure you the work is not given away, although it does feel like it putting on those labels. My kingdom to outsource that job!!

I can assure you the work is not given away, although it does feel like it putting on those labels. My kingdom to outsource that job!!

Disk labels? Have you thought about printing right to disk?

The last studio I did ordered 1,000 DVDs. I charged them $17 per DVD.Are you bloody serious? 1000 copies to a single dance studio? I just shot nine shows over the weekend for a studio with almost 1000 kids. And they do nine shows because that's the breakdown they need to get all the kids on stage in a reasonable amount of time. I'm interested in knowing the demographics of this studio you have such that you can produce one show and duplicate it 1000 times. How many kids do they have? And are they really putting that many dancers on the one DVD in a ~2.5 hour show?

For that many copies of one show, replication is the way to go. 1000 copies would cost about $2000 with full cases and offset disc printing. At that volume, it isn't much more than doing it yourself, especially when you consider the labor.

Dang Colby! You sold that many copies???

Okay, I retract my comments to you. Heck, if I knew I was selling that many, my price would decrease to around your price as well.

Good for you! I can hear your cash register now, ka-ching, ka-ching! :>)

We average to selling to half the parents, but no guarantees. The only guarantees we have is that teachers will enforce no videotaping.

Kathy

It was a 3 day recital, with 2-3 shows a day. This studio also has 2 other branches in two cities, and they all do their recital at one time. I didn't mean to make it sound like that there was just 1 show.

Also consider that some parents buy more than 1 copy so that the grandparents get to see little Nancy Jane as well.

Edited to add: Where do I find a printer that prints directly to a DVD? Can anybody recommend a specific one? My kingdom awaits!

Edited to add: Where do I find a printer that prints directly to a DVD? Can anybody recommend a specific one? My kingdom awaits!How much are you looking to spend, and what kind of finished disc are you looking for? Inkjet is very popular, where the Epson R200 is a good bet. Primera solutions are the next step up IMO. If you want thermal, you can go black and white for about $100 or make the leap to full color thermal retransfer. For that you've basically got the Everest II and the TEAC P-55. I bought the P-55 on a leap of faith (for the growth and volume of my business), and haven't regretted it at all, despite the $5500 price tag.

I really feel one has to get a very good understanding of what kind of pricing the local market can bear before making any kind of statement regarding what the dance video product is worth. I was invited to shoot because the previous videographers had delivered less than acceptable product. Since I had not considered dance shool videos as a possibility, and had done no research, I took the project on at the previous year's pricing and jumped in with both feet. One of the things I found particularly insightful was the awareness (or lack thereof) of the school's director to accomodate my production needs. Whether the issue is knowing or caring, it remains a defining one. I made a profit, but it appeared things could have been better.

So, here's what I've been doing:

In my neck of the woods (and I mean woods, no freeways within at least a hundred miles in any direction) there are only two dance studios that do work worth recording and have a student body large enough to justify the cost of video. I work for the largest of the two, and that only produces two shows a year. My sales are direct to the purchasers. The shool director is too busy to deal with dance related rehearsals and pending competitions to deal with the additional complications of fundraising. She only contracts video because parents want it. She is not the least bit interested in fundraising. OK, fine. More for me (maybe).

I shoot with three cameras. One stationary at center of house. One house right and one house left. All at same perspective level to stage, No high center wide, no jib arm. The right and left cameras have camera persons. We use the house intercom for communication. Each camera station has two 13" monitors so each knows what the other is doing.

The end result (ideally) at any point in time I have a wide angle, a mid angle, and a close-up to work with in editing. The entire video is carefully edited, because I can't stand to put anything out less than my best possible. Not necessarily the most cost effective approach, but I can't seem to help it.

We shoot one performance, period. Unfortunately, the school's schedule is so hectic I can not get an opportunity to see any rehearsals before the shoot, so we "fly by the seat of our pants", as it were. It is the best we all can do. In some ways it is very disappointing, because if I could learn a choreographers style before the fact I could do a much better job of representing the choreography intent as well as satisyfyingthe moms, dads, and other relatives in the finished DVD. By contract, the video is shot with parents and relatives in mind, not choreographers. I would shoot with a significantly different focus were the video for choreographic archive. In my youth I was a dancer (though not a good one), so I have a sensibility towards the craft.

Editing used to take three weeks with FCP4. This year I moved to FCP5 to take advantage of its live switching feature and reduced my editing time by two thirds. The video has introductory titles with a photograph of the program as background and a simple credits roll at the end. All dance numbers are chaptered. I even chapter the individual dances of the ballet pieces, much to the chagrin of the ballet instructor. The video is for moms and dads, not her. Besides, she is a Sara Bernhardt reincarnation anyway, so who cares? It is not her name on the bottom line of the contract (read this statement as, "constuctive criticism is helpful, whining is not").

I charge $30 for each DVD for pre-orders. During performance I have a booth in the theatre lobby and sell videos for $35.00. Intermission sales proved worth the effort. If the facility director starts demanding a prcentage of sales (customary), the price will increase significantly.
The ballet performance is delivered in a jewel case. The all-school performance on two DVD's in a standard DVD box. Labels for the DVD's are paper because my Epson R200 is way too slow for direct printing on the disc.

Last year I sold 150 copies. This year 140. I threw in a "last years video" insert as well as custom audition video offer for those students looking to pursue further dance training at other schoools in all delivered DVD's. After my first year's experience with "dance moms" I mail all of my videos. No more pickups at the dance studio.

I budget $1k for expenses. Next year will have a lower budget because I bought my own duplicator.

I do not break my packages down to details of what is included or what is an additional fee because I despise the concept of "nickel and diming". In this kind of market I believe it is my responsibility to design an appropriate range of packages, agree to terms in a contract, and then proceed. In reality, every job is unique.

I try to avoid specialty projects like opening montages primarily because they are an "upsell" feature which will not contribute to my profit margin. In a different market, perhaps as a fundraiser feature, there may be value. It currently does not exist for me.

1000 DVDs sold? Man alive, I sell 65 and I feel like a rockstar. Any way I use the Epson R300, let the ink dry for a day then laquer them with clear gloss spray laquer. I'm a pretty good graphic designer so they look awsome when I"m done. I shure would like to sell 1000 though. I'm in a small market so that is not likely to happen.

Mike

Waldemar, your approach mirrors my own, though I only shoot with two cameras (I'm the only camera operator). I too meticously edit my video as I can't bring myself to do a sloppy job. Who knows what other business the recital DVD may bring so how can I put out anything less than my best?

I also market directly to parents as the studio owner has too much to do already. I do get an order form into the packet of recital materials mailed home and I also set up a table in the lobby with more forms on the day of the performances. I have a small TV and DVD on the table running a short loop video from the dress rehearsal from the previous day. I don't know if it drives any additional sales, but I plan to keep it in my plans.

I too shoot and edit for the student and parents, not the choreographer. I try to capture some CU time for every student because I learned how important that is from being a parent at the receiving end of these videos. And they are the ones with the checkbooks after all. It won't be the dances they want to see years into the future, it will be the faces.

I am charging $30 this year (up from $25) which now includes mailing as I have found the studio pickup method doesn't work well at all. For that you get a single DVD (with titles) in a jewel case with an insert that includes a list of all the routines/chapters on the back.

It won't be the dances they want to see years into the future, it will be the faces.That depends on the market audience. For little dancers (up to age eight I'd say), I agree with you. But cuteness wears off after about 4-5 years, so beyond that many parents want to see what they've been spending their money on all those years. I've spoken to several parents about it, and for the long-term students, the parents go from wanting to see the cute little girl in the daffodil costume to the dancer. And how she looks in a corps will be a reflection of her technique.

I shot a show for a predominatly teen/adult studio for two years using just one camera that always captured everyone on stage. And then they went to a different company for one show that used more of the close-ups and MTV style of shooting. Most of the participants were quite pissed off simply because they didn't get to see the choreography and how each dancer interacted with that choreography. It was always jumping from this facial close-up to watching this other dancer's feet, to zooming across the stage in some swifty camera move, etc.

But since the little ones largely don't have choreography (some stand there frozen, some search for mommy, some stare at the instructor in the wings, others happily twirl around...) the appeal they have is in their cute costumes, facial expressions, and unpredictable behavior. Although the older experienced dancers are pleasing to watch, the little ones make the show fun.

...but I digress from the topic. :) I typically charge $30/copy for a 30 copy minimum. That's one camera (GY-DV5000), PCC microphones, Amaray case with graphics, color thermal printed disc, main menu, scene selection menus, quick opening intro, and scrolling credits. If they want two cameras, the price goes up accordingly.

Brent ... Thank you. And if you don't mind ... how much more do you charge for an additional camera?

As for the rest of your post ... I agree that the older and more serious students are more concerned about the routine as opposed to individual shots.

And to make your point about the smaller/younger dancers ... I get this phone call from a grandfather earlier this week.

He wanted to know where I shot from ... it was two cameras in the balcony and the only place allowed to go. However, it's also the best angle considering the setup of the theatre.

Wanted to know if he would see his grandaughter and I assured him that he would as we did both wide shots and closeups.

His grandaughter performed (4 yrs old) on Friday night and as the song was ending waved and said "hi" to mommy. He wanted to know if I got it. I told him that I didn't know if it was on tape or not. (I have no plan to look for it.)

He said that it was really cute. I said I'm sure it was.

I then asked him ... "So you don't really want to order the DVD unless you can see your grandaughter wave to her mother ... you're not interested in the rest of her dance." He responded with, "I guess that's right."

I told him that the DVDs would be out in four to six weeks and that he could check with one of the other dancers that purchased the video and if his grandaughter was waving and he wanted to order it he could send his form in.

For the additional camera I charge $70 per recorded hour plus $200 per hour of final footage (based on the additional editing). So say their show is 2.5 hours recorded and edited down would be 2 hours, it'd be $175 + 400 = $575, which I'd probably round to $600 in the quote.

I've never actually dealt with someone like you describe, especially about the wave. I guess he'd rather have nothing than shots of her dancing. One thing I did learn quickly is that the younger the group, the more "illegal" video cameras you see popping up around the auditorium. And they're not even bothering to be discreet anymore either. Since most of the newer cameras have the LCD display on the back, they'll just hold them up, distracting everyone behind them, and get their shot. Of course this is after the announcement at the beginning of the show that no videotaping is allowed. But I guess those people are the ones like your grandpa, that only care about getting the one shot of their child. On the other hand, at this studio I just shot at last weekend, the show they did that featured the older dancers didn't have anyone taking flash photography or popping out a video camera. The seasoned people know the drill and respect the rules.

This is a very interesting thread. I have been shooting performance video for about two years now, mostly dance. I don't sell my DVDs cheap because I put a helluva lot of work into them.

I do only DVDs (what's VHS?) I burn them myself on an 11:1 duplicator, and I print labels directly to hub printable media. I use full sized DVD cases and print inserts with full color stills from the video. I highly recommend Taiyo Yuden PREMIUM 8x DVD-R hub printable media. You can get a great price on line. I also invested in a Primera Bravo Pro DVD printer.

I have two Sony HVR-V1Us, but started with an HC-1 and and HC-3. I shoot everything in HDV, and render to 24p standard DVD. It gives it a gorgeous film quality. With the V1U, I can shoot in 24p, so rendering is faster. And as Douglas Spotted Eagle has pointed out, HDV just LOOKS better, even when rendered to standard DVD. I use Sony Vegas 7 and DVD Architect. People think my standard DVDs are HD. They look that good!

I do all the sales and marketing of the DVDs, and give the dance studio a share of the sales. They don't need to lift a finger. All they need to do is promote it to the parents, and tell them who to call. We take advance orders, but most of our sales (75%) happen on site. We made the leap to taking MC, Visa, Discover AND (gulp) Amex this year, and we have a wireless credit card machine that prints out the receipt on the spot. That thing has paid for itself many many times over.

If I had the time, I could build this into a full-time business. One day I hope to. Unfortunately, they pay me too much at my "day job" so it's nights and weekends for now.

I have made lots of connections, and the people I work with love what I do for them. Extremely high quality at a reasonable price. $25 at the extreme low end (simple B&W label on DVD in paper sleeve), up to $60 for a "multi-show family pack" with all the trimmings in a 6-pack DVD case. I don't charge a per diem, but I do take the lions share of the profit. Everybody is happy.

And I turn around my DVDs in less than a month. Mailed straight to the customer. All DVDs are 100% guaranteed, or I replace at my expense, shipping and all. I have never had an unhappy customer.

But here's the real secret: knowing WHAT to shoot and HOW to shoot it is the most important part. Shooting dance is an acquired skill. I got most of my business because there are a LOT of REALLY BAD videographers out there. Of course, present company is excluded! But those of you who have taken business away from a guy with a video camera who doesn't know what he's doing know what I'm talking about.

I have learned a lot from watching BAD VIDEO. What not to do! Example: split screen with wide angle at the bottom and close-up pan at the top. Never ever do this! And if you do, chances are someone else will be shooting that performance next year.

Do yourself a favor: Shoot the dress rehearsals. It's great experience, it will help you when you do it for real, and you can make a little montage to show in the lobby as others have suggested.

One other bit of advice: when shooting dance, ballet in particular, DON'T cut off feet!

If you are at all curious what my video looks like, visit my YOUTUBE channel:

www.youtube.com/pointedvd

I also have a website: www.pointedvd.com

And you can email me at jerry@pointedvd.com.

Good luck!

>>What not to do! Example: split screen with wide angle at the bottom and
>>close-up pan at the top. Never ever do this! And if you do, chances are
>>someone else will be shooting that performance next year.

Out of curiousity, how do you manage to show the close-ups of the dancers without losing all the dancers on the stage?

Interesting to hear what others do!

Here in Melbourne Australia we started shooting dance school concerts in 1999.

Now its grown to shooting approx. 16 concerts in 6 weeks from middle November to Xmas, - we've never lost a client!

Mostly 2 camera shoots, edited with all student names as credits (always supplied in a word document by the school to save time and mistakes) and school's teachers and helpers.

Again the second camera (the tight shots), is only ever cut in if he covers ALL the students that are on the stage, so he does a lot of pans across stage, always timed to the music being played.

The opening credits (school, date and place) I do up in template using Bluff Titler at the start of November, so they look stunning for that year, and just change the school's details. I also have a title for every item - to allow in and outs points for my authoring.

I have always put extra time into the authoring with DVDLabPro, as that program was the first software to allow you to put in AND OUT points at any chapter point, so the user can play all, or select any item from a complete item list set of menus and just play THAT item, at the end of the applause the DVD will flick back to that item menu again.

All items are listed on the back cover of the DVD.

We always have the school as the client, they are responsible for selling the DVD's, and have minimum order of $35 for 35 copies for 2 camera shoot, up to 2 hours, $40 for two discs ($5 to author and supply second disc).

Some of the bigger schools order up to 300 copies. Most have to be delivered back before Xmas. (the biggest concert was nearly four hours long, three cameras nearly 12 hours of footage!!!!).

For 1 camera shoot (smaller schools or mid year) it's $25 for minimum 25 copies.

I use Edius Multicam to edit with, and last year had an editor in to help, while I did the authoring on a second computer, and a girl duplicating (we have two towers, a 9 and 7). Only ever burn at x4, which means 64 discs per hour, and three Canon printers which can print three copies at once (or two and the covers) through a third computer.

We work so hard over those six weeks I usually manage to get sick over the Xmas (summer) holidays, but last year was much better with an editor helping out.

Certainly make some money though!

Cheers Vaughan

I started doing my daughter's dance recitals around 8 years ago. I got into it not really to make money, but to have a nice video of my daughter. For the last 4 years, I have worked for 2 different studios. Here's what I do.

Studio 1: My daughter's studio. I shoot with 2 cameras and operators. We do three shows now. I sell the DVDs for $30 for one show, $50 for 2 different shows and $70 for all three shows. I add an extra $5 for VHS due to the fact that duplicated actually takes longer and it costs more to mail a VHS. The dance studio doesn't get a cut, but they get copies and copies from my 3rd wide shot backup camera.

I have found that the studio owners like to have a wide shot that shows the entire stage all the time for choreography purposes. My style is that during competitions, it is important to show the entire dancer or dancers head to toe all the time, but during recitals, parents and grandparents want to see faces as much as all of the dancers. Again that is different depending on the age of the dancers, really young, faces are money shots, older where technique is key, then head to toe.

Studio 2: I shoot their annual Christmas Nutcracker performance and their summer recital. 3 shows per event. I just do a single camera with titles and video/audio sweetening. I always to a backup wide shot. Even if I only had a VHS camera available, something is better then nothing. But I use a GL-1 or TRV-900 for my backup. I charge the studio $200 per show, that is $600 per event. I think that they sell it for $25 per DVD. I just give them 2 copies of each show and they take care of duplication and delivery.

I am going to raise my price for Studio 2 this year, but I haven't decided on how much yet.

The tough thing is that for both studios the parents can shoot all the video and all the pictures they want during the dress rehearsal, so I think that hurts sales a bit. So quality of your video and audio is key.

>>What not to do! Example: split screen with wide angle at the bottom and
>>close-up pan at the top. Never ever do this! And if you do, chances are
>>someone else will be shooting that performance next year.

Out of curiousity, how do you manage to show the close-ups of the dancers without losing all the dancers on the stage?

That is where the skill comes in at a couple of levels. You need to know when it is OK to go in tight, and when to fall back to the wide shot. I produce dance performance video that people enjoy watching, rather than contrived video that captures every kid, all the time.

As a general rule, here is what I do:

Tight shot on solos or small groups while everyone else is standing still or off stage. Wide shot as soon as everyone is dancing, or another dancer or group of dancers enters from the wings. Tight shot on a cluster of dancers when everyone is doing the same thing, then wide shot to see the whole view, and then choose another cluster of dancers and go in for a tight shot.

Having the constant wide shot is great as a safety net, or for the choreographer who insists on that wide view-- often because they don't know any better. I have never had a choreographer think I missed something critical. But it never hurts to get their input. Ask them what they think is a NOT TO BE MISSED moment, and be prepared for t. The key is to capture the moments that MUST be full stage, and know when it is OK to go in for the closeup.

That is why I think it is impossible to live-switch a dance perfromance and produce something that looks good. I have to edit in post. Time consuming, yes. But the quality speaks for itself.

I have found that parents can be overly concerned that they need to see their daughter for the entire 2 minutes she in on the stage. What they don't realize (until they actually receive my DVD) is that their kids will watch the WHOLE SHOW over and over because they enjoy the performance-- not just seeing herself. I am not making this up. Return customers don't hesitate to pay 40 bucks plus tax for a video that is an entire summer of entertainment.

And here is another twist: encourage parents to videotape their dancer in the dress rehearsal. Crazy you say? Not at all. They get their kid on tape for the whole two minutes. They watch the grainy, shaky, zooming and panning once or twice. And it stays in the camera until it gets taped over. Then they see my preview video in the lobby at the performance, and realize that it is superior to what they shot. And they are NOT allowed to videotape the actual performance. Then they buy the DVD. And they are glad they did.

Bottom line is there is no shortcut to producing high quality performance video. You have to know what to shoot, how to shoot it, and make it entertaining. And a nice package helps too. Anything less than that, and you risk losing your business to someone else. Deliver excellent qaulity, and the referals will come to you. Simple as that.

Hope this helps!

I produce dance performance video that people enjoy watching, rather than contrived video that captures every kid, all the time.

Wow. Sounds like I've been doing 'contrived' video for the last 5 years.

...parents can be overly concerned that they need to see their daughter for the entire 2 minutes she in on the stage. What they don't realize (until they actually receive my DVD) is that their kids will watch the WHOLE SHOW over and over because they enjoy the performance-- not just
seeing herself.

So who writes the check? The kids or the parents?

You have to do what works for your client. If people are happy with the split screen, there is nothing wrong with that. Personally, I tend to go with Jerry's approach and try to have the finished video look like a produced television piece. I usually don't do more than 3 or 4 closeups during a single performance, again depending on the type of dance. That is the key. I had thought about trying to do a smaller package for a cheaper piece that just had a single dance on it, for the families that might only be in one dance. After asking I have found two things:
1. Most of the time the kids are taking more than 1 class. Only 1 class is a major minority.
2. I have had many many comments that the kids like to watch the entire recital and see their teachers and friends dance as well.

It all comes down to what is working for you and what people are happy with. Good luck.

Wow. Sounds like I've been doing 'contrived' video for the last 5 years.



So who writes the check? The kids or the parents?

No offense intended, Colby. If what you're doing works for you, keep doing it. My experience has been that my customers like what I do better compared to their prior videos from split screen/live switch video guys.

And btw, the parents write the checks-- over and over again.

Interesting to hear what others do!



Well said Vaughan. My production and pricing sound very similar, but I don't do nearly as many performances as you do. I'm sure you didn't start out with 16 shows!

Out of curiosity, is that your recital season-- end of the school year? And do you do holiday themed shows as well (Nutcracker, etc)? At least we get to balance it out a bit up here.

What do you do in the off season?

Hi Jerry,

yes, the Xmas season is our end of year so major concert season.

It is also smack in the middle of our wedding season, which is our other main income source. (Wedding season in Melbourne runs from September - April)
Not many in Winter months (none this month)

We do get several mid year concerts and some school productions during the year, this week I'm editing a wedding from July, amateur concert from July,and a corporate video production for September. Then I have a holiday and get back into weddings!

Vaughan

Jerry,

That's a top idea about inviting the parents to video their kid at the rehearsal as a qualifying mechanism for valuing the superior / professional work you do. It's better than having "last years operator" to make you look good.

Well done!

Andrew