Sanyo has announced a new model, HD1a, to be released in the US in September. I am still wading through crudely translated press releases, but the major changes seem to be a format intended for the video ipod, 16:9 stills (if that just means built in cropping, I'd rather do it myself later) and improved in camera editing. Nothing said so far about correcting bugs.

Addendum: I just found the English press release at : http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060713/lath017.html?.v=66 It mentions an LCD screen, rather than OLED. That's good news, as my OLED screen is already flaking.

Here's another press release, from Panasonic and Sony on plans for AVCHD (H.264) which may well become the major competition for the Sanyo HD1a: http://www.avchd-info.org/press/20060713.html

You obviously won't see the press release saying "design flaws such as the 'bad lense mech', 'jaggies' and 'flaking OLED' have been resolved!"

But I think that's the gist.

The differences the HD1a press release does refer to are either just marketing (a cropped 16:9 still image mode which is 3MP rather than 5MP? Come on!) or a modicum of imagination: upping the Web-HQ from 15 frames to 30 frames.

As I have ranted about in a previous post, Sanyo is using buyers as Beta Testers with the current HD1. I'm sure this new model is the unit Sanyo meant to release in the first place.

However, by the time the HD1a hits the stores, so may the new AVCHD products from Panasonic and Friends. There's no doubt in my mind the AVCHD units will eat the HD1/HD1a for lunch and even have time to ask for a toothpick.

Look at two of the advantages of AVCHD:

-24Mbps (and this is with the much more efficient H.264!)
-1080/24p AND 720/60p

I'm tired of postings about superior products in the glorious future. I care about my HD1 I got NOW and how I can use it to its best ability. There will always be new and improved products in the future, we deal with them when they exist.

You're right Per-Arne.

It's the advantage / risk that early adopters experience.

Isn't it great things are moving so fast? At the beginning of this century a domestic HD video camera was out of the question. Now, we find ourselves in the luxurious position of picking over the differences between two models by the same manufacturer priced under €1000! One can only imagine what it will be like by 2010! The HD1a will likely have been superseded many times, as you say Carlos.

In this ever-changing world of videography, one has to dip one's toe in the water intermittently and purchase items. I am just glad they are smaller and more powerful than in the past and having great fun dreaming about the future...

Per-Arne,

Agree 100%.

Im very pleased with my camera...! and the fact that I have been able to capture 720P for months. if I had waited until a updated version in september.. well then I would not have used my camera this summer clearly.

Besides... with a little luck my camera will fail durring the next year and I can then get it replaced with a HD1a. (smile) Hey one gotta be optimistic about things.


Bo

www.bophoto.com/HDV

I also agree. I have made a half dozen films with the HD1 that are notably better than what I was able to do with DV, that made me happy and brought joy to the people whose lives I recorded. By the time the better cameras come out, the children involved will have grown into another phase. As soon as something better comes along, I'll buy that one too.

I am particularly watching Panasonic. They have a very nice 3ccd that records to SD cards; all they have to do is upgrade it to AVCHD.

I am enjoying my HD1 right now. All's I's saying is that when the updated model (HD1a) comes could, so may the new AVCHD. When that happens, it will be hard for Sanyo to sell the HD1a when at least on paper, AVCHD is superior in all aspects.

These forums are for discussion. About the past, present future. If Men only worried about the present, then how can we prepare for the coming ice age and interstellar abominations and flourescent kittens?

I think you all here prove how important mobility is for video. It doesn't matter if you got the latest 1080i-super-duper-cam from Sony if you do not actually take it with you and use it. My HD1, on the other hand, is always with me and I take tons of videos. The quality of the 720p videos are great and perfect for producing DVD's. Yes, its not perfect indoor but most action is outdoor anyway (except the bedroom but I'm not into that :). It feels awkward to take out a 1 kilo hollywood-monster-cam and start filming, but to use the HD1 is just fun for everyone and invites creativity.

2.2-inch LCD display? not OLED

You obviously won't see the press release saying "design flaws such as the 'bad lens mech', 'jaggies' and 'flaking OLED' have been resolved!"

But I think that's the gist.

The differences the HD1a press release does refer to are either just marketing (a cropped 16:9 still image mode which is 3MP rather than 5MP? Come on!) or a modicum of imagination: upping the Web-HQ from 15 frames to 30 frames.

Hmm, that would explain why Sanyo Australia is waiting to release it. So, is it 25p, or did they know about the bugs.

Now, the downside, no better compression rate, no 25p, LCD, instead of OEL (I thought that was cheaper and better, "flaking OEL", what's that, does it ever end with this camera) only $100 off, come on, and in September, not now, please, please, please, you have got to be joking. The reality (well my guess) fixed bugs (please) all additional announced stuff, maybe even 25p, and a much better Hd2 model at a more expensive price. Sanyo will release at $699, and then release HD2, and try to hold the HD1a price, before dropping it to, maybe, below $500, where it belongs, even with OEL, 25p and improvements (like 19mb/s data rate). If it had been now there was a possibility I would buy it instead of waiting for a descent AVCHD.

Future, nearly August, where 720p Samsung is scheduled to be released (using 720p chip). Samsung have signed to AVCHD, AVCHD has jumped to 24Mb/s (they listened) but is that a player or a camera AVCHD license. Sanyo needs cheaper better HD, now. I'm warming to AVCHD more and more.

Still f/3.5 aperture (1.2-1.6 would make a great improvement). But "noise reduction" is in the present model. Has anybody used it, the clips don't seem to show it?

I wish they would give uncompressed HDMI or component live?

Found a new mostly water proof C6, so maybe you will get a water proof HD1 eventually. Actually a fully diving water proof HD1 with larger aperture (low light) and true noise reduction, would be popular with a number of divers around here.

Forgot, new Sony AVCHD camera to be shown next week:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=71571

Sorry for the negativity there, I just think it is hopeless having such a buggy camera out and then telling people a fixed version will be months away, and hassling about warranty, instead of improving the present cameras going on the market (when better cameras are coming soon, just poor taste).

AVCHD unit from Sony coming out?

Xmas in July! ( and I am not even christian!)

Hello Mr. Amazon? Hello? I would like to send back my Sanyo HD1.

Adios!!!

The Sony will be better - but useless to me because I can't live with moving parts anymore.

Remember, we've got to see how this AVCHD dance goes before choosing any winners. =)

We don't know who'll win - that's true - but it clearly won't be the HD1!

I don't like moving parts either but I'll bet that a spinning disc unit from Sony is going to be more reliable than the moving parts in the "lens assembly" of the Sanyo HD1.

Very true - but now that I'm used to not having to load and replace and consider internal transport, reverting to DVD or tapes would just seem like a step backward.

Panasonic has already indicated they will be using AVCHD on SD based camcorders, which seems logical since they already have the 3CCD SR100 series in standard definition.

Be interesting to find out if the eprom from the HD1a can be copied and used to update the HD1. Assuming the HD1a is the same unit with firmware updates, it just might work.

Well, the screen is different.

But it might work, if someone knew how to load in the new firmware.

Or they might offer the HD1a's firmware as a HD1 firmware upgrade themselves on a page online - like they did for that earlier Xacti model.

According to the Sanyo Rep, it looks like the differences between this and the last model is pretty much as listed:

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=97939&forum_id=27&jump_to=563112

Notice, how he is sneakingly avoiding my questions.

Hello, people out there:
Does anyone of you know where to find any sample clip of this camera?
In camcorderinfo.com someone said the optura 600 of canon (SD camcorder) produces better video than the sanyo HD1 or 1A; and also: "This camcorder does not deserve to be called HD. Don’t get fooled", to be exact.

Hello Alex,

Sounds like a lot of opinion in that statement to me. Clips from the HD1 can be found all over this site. You can use them to make your own judgement call. To my knowledge, there are no sample clips from the 1a yet.

From my experience, this camera is neither broadcast quality HD nor lower grade SD, rather it is somewhere in between. Interestingly, it's also priced somewhere in between. I wonder if there's a connection... ;)

HD1 sample video

http://www.bophoto.com/HDV/video/

Bo

www.bophoto.com/HDV

Is the HD1A available now ? amazon.com appears to be selling it ? finally got my refund for the bad "grey market" HD1 I got and want to get the HD1A ??

Akihabaranews still not liking HD1 or HD1a.

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-12161-Xacti+DMX-HD1a+the+un+new+HD1.html

Yet if that movie capture image they are criticizing is really from HD1a, it may be possible that they fixed the diagonal problem. It's blown up so much to show zaggies anyways but the patterns are even on both diagonal directions! :)

But then of course, the image maybe not be from HD1 at all. If you didn't fix it you'd want to avoid revealing the infamous bug on their ad, wouldn't you?

....

Forgive me, a very late night.

Thanks, Chris and Bo.
See you.

I don't think a review based on the promotional material of Samsung is valid...maybe they used the HD1, or they scaled the image. Marketing departments have different purposes for brochures, and being the base for reviews is not one of them.

Akihabaranews still not liking HD1 or HD1a.

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-12161-Xacti+DMX-HD1a+the+un+new+HD1.html

Yet if that movie capture image they are criticizing is really from HD1a, it may be possible that they fixed the diagonal problem. It's blown up so much to show zaggies anyways but the patterns are even on both diagonal directions! :)

But then of course, the image maybe not be from HD1 at all. If you didn't fix it you'd want to avoid revealing the infamous bug on their ad, wouldn't you?

Akihabaranews was using the Sanyo HD1 for their news clips; I wonder if they still are, given their low opinion. Their 720P flash travel movie looks good.

Yeah, I couldn't find that brochure, how do we know that it is not largely to do with his conversion of the frame to JPEG?

Still, people are talking about a movie, where is this, all I see are a couple of static images?

With that white sky I imagine it could be from the Sanyo. I understood that they were using a Sony HC1 fro news, is it true that they are now using Sanyo as well.

Have you seen the new "white" remote, does not as good as the old one.

They have mixed up (OEL screen etc) details on the HD1a information on Sanyo site. Funny Sanyo feature the gloomy LCD in comparison to the flash OEL on their flash animation, why drop it.

Apparently Kodak and SANYO have closed the OLED factory that they both jointly shared - the factory for the OLED used in the original HD1. Hence LCD..

Yeah, that is a bit silly, you think they could get another from somewhere else, or outsource it. I wonder if this is the real reason for the HD1a model.

The OLED was one of the really cool features of the machine, and taking it away makes it loose a bit of shine.

There has been some recent announcement of new LCD display (canon maybe, I forget) that has twice as good image, hopefully they could use something like that.

I have a question though, is there any reported problems with the OLED, I have heard reference to an "Flaky" screen.

I really think Sanyo should have improved data rate or compression at $499.


There is some potential for good news here, in the other thread I posted on the insides of the HD1, I found an article that they could have improved the noise reduction in the camera by using better motion vectoring etc, but that this would max out the bandwidth to the ram memory. If they can can upgrade the RAM memory transfer rate in the new model, then you could get better results from 9mb/s. I think that in motion and low light, it could make some situations twice as good. Lets hope they will do this (and give us a 19Mb/s mode). I hope this is for eliminating noise by examining if it is in the same point in surrounding frames (time based, I think now they call this 3D noise reduction).

There are a few other things they could do on the compression side, like get rid of crawling pixels, particularly on plain surfaces, reduction of resolution/detail, and doing shaping, on moving objects (the faster the movement, the less detail/resolution needed, but shape still needed) to reduce blocking. It would make waves look more normal. With some additional, most likely post, processing the disjointed features between macro blocks to join them up more smoothly. In small waves, I have seen the dark parts of the wave go right into the bright part of waves at the boundary of the macro block, where it looks natural for them to connect up instead. So you have these odd chunky waves crawling through, that could be better arranged to connect to each other.

Lets hope they can improve it more this time.

Actually I am fine with 9mb a sec. in fact I prefer it. 1 hour on 4gb is nice and I would be upset at less than that. That alone already means I have to buy $200 worth of memory cards to get 2 hours of video !!

Fix the diagonal jaggies. Improve the compression algorithms Improve Low light and if possible allow seamless 5mp capture while shooting video (IE with no pause in the video)

I would also love to see DUAL SD card slots. so I can pop in 4gb of cards and have it seamlessly jump to the second card and allow me to remove and replace the first one for downloading.

Develope Software to allow proper minimally recompressing editing of the video it captures !

Other than that I am really happy with the camera.

For PRO's no for Consumers what more could you want :-) just go watch the Mustang Air Show clip and consider that cam from a palm sized recorder for $600 AND its recompressed to wmv !! Wow is all I can say :-)

Oh and a wideangle adaptor that is made better so it does not mangle the video with curverature :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

An extra bit rate mode (or two) would not stop you from using 9 or 6Mb/s modes. But it gives some that can be used to transcode better, or to integrate footage into production with prosumer cameras ;). Yeah, more professional, but still will look more seamless on a HDTV to consumers (who could probably do with with 12-15MB/s).

Yeah, hopefully some of those things will appear on the HD2.

The HD1a is just the HD1-proper, with a few bugs worked out, presumably to give it more of a chance against the imminent competition.

Ideally, Sanyo would also make it so that manual changes to aperture, ND, and shutter speed would be instantly reflected in the LCD, rather than having to record first to see what you'd get. Also, an exposure lock akin to the focus lock would be great to minimize the shifts in exposure while panning. Having this and the aforementioned compression algorithm changes in a firmware upgrade would be fantastic.

Since we're all adding to the mix...

Correcting the lighting shift that occurs in the first second or two of video shots wouldn't be a bad thing either.

Exposure lock is a number one category thing, even for consumer. Poor. Is there any mode that locks exposure?

I agree but look how many modes of HD we have now (hint 1) I am afraid if they up it they will not GIVE an option to use a lesser bitrate. (path of least resistance and all that)

if it was optional thats cool. then again if there was a higher bitrate mode I would likely use it resulting in annoyance at getting less than an hour on a card :-) hehehe

now if 8gb cards were available that would make things interesting.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Or 100GB SD.

I would say that they would not eliminate the lower rate modes, to retain length and compatibility with with ordinary DVD disks (though a dual layer would be something). The problem is 9mb/s Mpeg4 is not 15mb/s h264. I realised I had been accidentally viewing clips in 1024*768 resolution recently, instead of 1280*1024, and now the compression problems are a bit more obvious.

I think for HD2, they really need to look at H264 to sell it at a high price. 19mbs, maybe, if bluray and HD DVD etc support it.

I don't think a review based on the promotional material of Samsung is valid...maybe they used the HD1, or they scaled the image. Marketing departments have different purposes for brochures, and being the base for reviews is not one of them.

Yes. Akihabara's criticism of HD1 wasn't very balanced and fair in the first place, IHO, and they are making another hasty judgement based on sanyo's brochure! But if that brochure image is really from HD1a's movie file, it is a very positive sign that they finally nailed the diagonal bug.

Lots of people have disappeared, so here is to reaching out to you:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=83398
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=87867