View Full Version : Which one would you buy?
Meryem Ersoz July 29th, 2006, 10:44 PM i'm kinda thinking one of each (which means, chris, that i can't vote your poll in its current structure. surely some third-party genius will eventually solve the uncompressed out for less money than is currently required. in fact, it seems like this camera could be the big motivator, if canon can sell enough of them. possibly another form of future-proofing? that way, me and my biz partner will be shooting the same camera. our assistant, can shoot the FX-1, if we're gathering interlaced footage, and we can be a pure hi-def operation. sweet.
looks as if i've finally found my reason to sell my trusty old GL-2 at last. boo hoo. maybe i will keep it as the underwater camera. yeah, that's it. still hanging onto the XL2 for the interchangeable lens function, unless canon surprises me with a reason to sell....say...BODY ONLY??
man, i find it hard to part with cameras. but then, i own two magic lanterns and a stereopticon, too....
Pete Bauer July 30th, 2006, 06:02 AM man, i find it hard to part with cameras. but then, i own two magic lanterns and a stereopticon, too....I feel your pain. I have a GL2 and an XL2 both sitting idle since I went HD. Shame that nice cameras just sit. I guess we really should get busy and post in the classified ads, eh?
Meryem Ersoz July 30th, 2006, 10:13 AM you first, pete!
mine aren't idle just yet...we currently shoot, primarily DV, with the XL2, FX-1, GL2 triumvirate...soon it will be the G1-A1-FX1 triumvirate, and when that happy day arrives, then i will have to think about disposing of my chums, the XL2 and the GL2, wah wah.
i don't tend to be an early adopter, though, i will let someone else iron out the bugs...so it may be Christmas before i have to think about letting go of cameras. i think i will be able to sell the GL2 to my assistant, though, so it won't be too far out of my sight, and he can own his own camera for his pet projects....
and a happy Christmas that will be....if i can wait that long. the only downside to DVinfo is that i get jealous witnessing everyone else playing with their cameras! jealousy can be expensive!
another consideration before i get too worked up is, how will the other camera manufacturer's respond? right now, i'm thinking i can maintain my canon loyalty, but let's see if sony or jvc or panny can give me an excuse......that FX-1 slipped in there with good reason, and i would say it is my favorite camera to operate....
Jay Yellamaty July 30th, 2006, 10:41 PM The A1 for sure. All the features I want at a price I can afford. But I doubt it can compete with my HD 100 picture quality or feature set. I was never impressed by Canons picture quality or it's design. The A1 has changed my mind about the design but I'll have to wait and see about the picture quality.
Kholi Hicks July 30th, 2006, 10:57 PM Canon XH A1.
I haven't purchased a camera since the Panasonic AG-DVC Pro, and I haven't planned on it until this bit of Canon news.
I have already set aside funds to purchase the A1 from the lowest priced retailer when it's released.
I don't have any specific needs for the G1's SDI capabilities, like many have stated.
Can't wait to get my hands on this darned camera.
Robert Watts August 4th, 2006, 11:09 AM I have a GL 2 and mostly use it to record soccer games. I have been waiting for the camera to upgrade to HD. I am a little concerned that the A1 lense is not as long as my GL 2.
I might start another thread getting opinions on the better format for soccer video. I have been looking at the JVC HD1US with its 720p format.
Abdulla Bastaki August 5th, 2006, 05:14 AM hmm... the cameras look amazing, i drooled for a while.. but i think id rather wait till i could get some footage to look at. ive used both the gl-1&2 and the xl1-&2 and i havent had the chance to anything other than those... canon boy. i just like the colors that the xl1-2 make.. they look closer to what i want.. the gl's were really good but their images somehow feel softer.. and maybe its cuz of their lcd, the gl lcds give this ghosty highly lit feel. but ive noticed that the gl's perform better in low light.
i think these new cams.. esp the A1... i really want it. i think it'll be awesome... but id rather wait till i see what it can do.
Trond Saetre August 5th, 2006, 09:27 AM The A1 will be my choice when I finally leave my XM2 and jump into the HDV world.
R.P. Cuenco August 5th, 2006, 02:02 PM i haven't seen any footage from the a1/g1...
ive never seen the camera upclose...
...yet i want one, badly.
i've had an hc1 for sometime now and it has suited me well. but after long nights of using nattress filters to get gamma, color, and cadence just right, dealing with unstable shots due to the small size of it, and pretty mediocre manual controls, i feel its time for me to upgrade to something closer to 24p/f.
originally, it was the dvx100. then i acquired the hc1, and from then on, i HAD to have hd. i didnt care if it was super compressed long-gop mumbo jumbo confabulated hunk of junk mpeg-2. as long as it made my friends and clients jaws drop, it was worth it.
where does the a1 fit in? other than basically pwning every camera in the $5000 range (granted it has a fixed lens), its pretty much what the doctor ordered. hd-sdi is for losers with their fancy shmancy raids and dual 23" setups with an outboard client studio montior. viva la hdv editing on consumer computers! and it appears that i can still use my letus35 flip with it!
Jack Jenkins August 5th, 2006, 02:12 PM Then why would you not buy an other H1 instead? Genuine question, I want to know who would buy the G1 and why. It doesn't make sense to me, but maybe does to you.
I think the same reasons the G series always has been attractive, namely compact form, high end image quality and a lot less than the XL or HL series. Besides at the time I purchased my GL1 I was comparing it to my friends XL1 and the image quality was virtually indistinguishable. When I looked into lens rental, other than some awesome wide-angle lens, I could'nt really justify the 2-3k price difference for lens interchangeability, lack of XLR's is another story, and I could justify that...almost. I shot my short with the GL1 and never needed any other lenses, and its smaller size made it very convenient.
Anyway we now have a G series camera with the exact CCDs as its big brother, XLRs, 24F and even SDI out. It has all the good stuff, just packed into a smaller package with a fixed lens for 3k less (G1) ... -SDI 5k less! (A1).
Who wouldnt want this cam?
David Lach August 5th, 2006, 03:25 PM I think the same reasons the G series always has been attractive, namely compact form, high end image quality and a lot less than the XL or HL series. Besides at the time I purchased my GL1 I was comparing it to my friends XL1 and the image quality was virtually indistinguishable. When I looked into lens rental, other than some awesome wide-angle lens, I could'nt really justify the 2-3k price difference for lens interchangeability, lack of XLR's is another story, and I could justify that...almost. I shot my short with the GL1 and never needed any other lenses, and its smaller size made it very convenient.
Anyway we now have a G series camera with the exact CCDs as its big brother, XLRs, 24F and even SDI out. It has all the good stuff, just packed into a smaller package with a fixed lens for 3k less (G1) ... -SDI 5k less! (A1).
Who wouldnt want this cam?
Well I can somewhat follow that reasoning, but why would you not want the A1 over the G1 then becomes the question.
You have to be into some pretty high end stuff (multi-cam rig with live editing or uncompressed editing) to need Gen lock or SDI out so I wonder, for the people needing those features, if they would really look at the 2K difference (which at the time the G1 comes out might not even be 2K) between the G1 and H1 as any sort of issue.
When you're talking about buying 2+ of those cams for mobile studio rigs and uncompressed projects, this 2K looks pretty insignificant and the full form factor and lens interchangeability that more important I would assume. People who see the 2K difference between the H1 and G1 as a major obstacle probably don't need the extra features and will likely buy the A1.
Again, maybe this reasoning is flawed, but I don't get why there's an in-between cam like the G1 and not just an A1 and an H1 for 2 very different markets. It's not really an issue of course, the more options the better, but I'm trying to understand Canon's logic.
Glenn Thomas August 6th, 2006, 05:52 AM Definitely the A1. An extra $3000(US) would amount to more than $4000 extra here in Australian dollars. That would buy me a killer workstation laptop!
I used to own an XL1 and later XM2, so I'm familiar with Canon cameras and love the look. Currently using a Sony HC1 which I like a lot, but the rolling shutter effect is slowly becoming a problem, especially with footage I've taken from a few fast moving trains. Time to get back to CCD's me thinks.
Tom Hardwick August 6th, 2006, 09:12 AM Rolling shutter effect? Can you explain further Glenn?
Philip Williams August 6th, 2006, 12:29 PM Rolling shutter effect? Can you explain further Glenn?
You can search this forum for 'hc1 rolling shutter' and find some interesting threads on it. Long story short, a CCD scans all pixels (odd or even line set in interlace, or the entire sensor in a progressive CCD) simultaneously so the image is an exact snapshot of a moment in time.
A CMOS sensor is scanned from top to bottom and all pixels are NOT scanned simulataneously. So the bottom of the image is scanned just a bit later than the top of the image. Normally this isn't perceptable, but on faster moving objects - especially if you freeze frame them - they appear to be "leaning".
So a square object speeding past a CMOS sensor will appear slightly trapezoidal (oh my, I hope I've got my shapes right..). Again, not normally a problem, but occasionally noticable on some shots.
www.philipwilliams.com
R.P. Cuenco August 6th, 2006, 05:12 PM parallelogram...ish :-)
Jack Jenkins August 6th, 2006, 08:06 PM ....Again, maybe this reasoning is flawed, but I don't get why there's an in-between cam like the G1 and not just an A1 and an H1 for 2 very different markets. It's not really an issue of course, the more options the better, but I'm trying to understand Canon's logic.
I am sure that the SDI jack thingy is an in factory add-on to the A1's so I dont really think its a big deal for Canon to release these two, its actually pretty smart design-wise. And it kinda scoops the andromeda folks.
Also I think Canon probably knows about some stuff coming down the pike that involves portable "SDI out" recording solutions. Or they just feel as I think most of us do that its just a matter of time before some cool portable sdi out recorder shows up.
David Lach August 6th, 2006, 08:57 PM Or they just feel as I think most of us do that its just a matter of time before some cool portable sdi out recorder shows up.
Well we can always dream now can we? ;-)
An affordable and portable sdi recorder would likely kill the big cams' market, not sure they're in a hurry to release that.
In any event, I can't wait to see these cams in action, as they might be the first HDV cams to make me think about retiring my trusty XL2s.
R.P. Cuenco August 7th, 2006, 01:32 AM would the expresscard slot on laptops coming out now be, in theory, fast enough to handle hd-sdi? a macbook pro portable recording solution could be insane.
Tyge Floyd August 10th, 2006, 07:52 AM I'll be buying an XH A1 to become my HD/backup SD rig when they come out. I'm excited about these cameras!
Ron Little August 10th, 2006, 10:36 AM I want two! As soon as they come out I will be selling my GL2, DVX and my hc1
Ben Bixby August 11th, 2006, 08:35 PM For only 4 grand with the 20x zoom, XL H1 hdv technology, and XLR really sells it for me. I'll be picking mine up as soon as it comes out, they sure beat Sony on this one!
Peter Macletis August 12th, 2006, 01:26 AM An A1, please!!! Can't wait till then... grrr... what is it???... October they say???... insomnias :)
Kevin Shaw August 12th, 2006, 11:03 AM would the expresscard slot on laptops coming out now be, in theory, fast enough to handle hd-sdi? a macbook pro portable recording solution could be insane.
I don't think a laptop setup would be capable of capturing uncompressed HD at the full 1.5 Gbps data rate, but you might be able to capture to something like the Cineform Prospect HD format. The next question would be whether there would be any way to fit an HD-SDI connector to a laptop; if not then a small "Shuttle" style computer would be a more suitable option.
David Ziegelheim August 12th, 2006, 04:48 PM I would like the HD-SDI...quite a bit actually...and the genlock, however not $3k worth. If spending that much I would spring the extra $2k for the H1. That is less than 30% more where the G1 is 75% more than the A1.
A1 has a nice point at or below the Z1, HD100/110, and HVX200...which was probably he idea.
Peter Jefferson August 12th, 2006, 08:34 PM I'll prolly jump ship to HDV (cack.. i know.. id prefer DHCproHD... but for my
work... anyways.. )
I have no need for SDI, Genlock or Time Code BNC jacks that are on the G1.. so i'll prolly grab a couple of A1's
even though HDV is not my cup of tea (and i know with SDI, i can run it into a laptop and capture straight to DVCPRoHD... yadd yadday.. but for my work, i sit on my tapes for months on end befor ei even START the work.. so this is not an option im afraid..
The fact remains these cameras SEEM to be what the HVX isnt.. with al the tweakability, and save for overcranking, more than likely image quality, if its anything liek the H1, would be surperior, bar from the imaging issues arroused by the recording format itself..
Ive never been one for canon gear.. theyve always had a specific canon look which i have always had issues with, but with THIS much tweakbility, then that can be overlooked and worked around.
I was pining for HVX units simply because of the existing Panasonic gear i have.. i KNOW the image quality and i cannot foult the lens whatsoever... for what it is i mean..
but DVCproHD and my NLE of choice dont play well together...
I was also looking at the HD101 becuase of its build, native 720p and clever focusing system.. but again, its a budget thing... and frankly, i trust canon moreover than i trust JVC.. (thats one of those industry insider attitudes i have.. )
Sony.. well i already have 2 Z1s which have bitterly dissapointed me.. moreso thatn any other piece of equipment i have ever purchased in my 13 years of working in the multimedia industry.. from synths to samplers, to rack mount gear, through to PC's still and video cameras, the Z1 has had to have been the worst decisions i have made with regard to progressive growth within my business...
Bill Pryor August 12th, 2006, 08:46 PM Just curious... what is it about the Z1 you don't like?
Heath McKnight August 12th, 2006, 08:55 PM I don't know about anyone else, but I really dig the Z1. Great lens, shot transitions, ease of use, color extract, brilliant/colorful image, 50i/60i, CineFrame 30 and 25 and more. Sure, it doesn't do native 24p, but when the FX1 and Z1 came out, the codec specifications for HDV said NO 24p. When both JVC and Canon introduced 24p/f, HDV was officially updated to include 24p:
http://www.hdv-info.org/HDVSpecifications.pdf
heath
Tom Hardwick August 13th, 2006, 12:32 AM You don't actually say what it is about the Z1 that dissapoints you Peter, and Bill and I would like to know. As I look at mine it's just an inanimate lump of glass, magnesium and plastic. It doesn't weigh much, it doesn't cost much. It sits there like a powerful computer doing nothing, waiting for your input.
Once in the loving hands of a filmmaker the Z1 shows its amazing potential energy. There seems little it can't do (and nobody in any PAL country wants 24p anyway). It'll give astoundingly good pictures at +18dB of gain up, and go where bigger pieces of kit cannot reach.
I've owned lots of camcorders in my time, and in the analogue Hi-8 days I paid as much as the Z1 cost me (in real terms) for wolly footage with wobbly verticals and shifted reds. This Z1 is truely a landmark camera in the same way the VX2000 was, changing overnight the way a lot of broadcast TV footage is shot.
tom.
Pete Bauer August 13th, 2006, 07:13 AM So which of these Canon cameras are you Z1 lovers going to buy?
Peter Jefferson August 13th, 2006, 07:41 AM oh yes, teh Z1, did change alot of things.. i know teh Idol team here in aus upgraded from PD units to Z1's when they were laucnhed. i thnk we sold them 4 units with mic kits just on prelaunch of the Z1...
for me the Z1 seems to be rushed.. sure it offers some wickedly sharp shots,, however i just cannot get the same wide shots as i get with a DVX100.
To be alittl emore blunt about it.. i sold off a DSR570 to get 2 of these.. That DSR could work in ANY environment.. literally shooting off teh back of a truck through to shooting divers underwater as theyre emerging.. those same shots on teh Z1, lets jsut say that teh water shots didnt work out how i wanted them to.. very messy and IMO pushed the codec as far as it would go.. ie shaky boat, with lots of movement..
As a whole, teh camera is fine IMO. the issue i have with it.. and my decision isnt something which i jsut thought up..
I like alot of things about it, such as the shot transition..
but there are more things i dnt like about it.. such as teh bulbous handgrip area, the lense abherations and vertical smearing (shoot a reflection of teh sun boucing off some moving water, and not only will u see vertical flaring, but you will also se teh compression issues i have with it... )
Theres also its low light performance.. now wait a minute.. let me explain.. its not its "performance" per se.. sure it can EXPOSE a shot.. but, look at the colour gradation of said shot... the muddiness, and noise generated by jacking up the gain is another push on the codec, hence causing further noise.. yes, this can be alleviated with light, but there are 2 major factors i need the cameras to be sure of.. colour gradation in good light, and colour gradation in low light. in good light, it works a treat, in lower lit environemts.. COLOUR plays a factor in the material im working, so losing that (ie losing that colour) makes the low light lux rating obsolete.. Kike i said, its one thign to expose a shot, its another thing to get that shot coloured accurately, without noise..
Likei said, i liked the camera.. dont get me wrong, i woudlnt have bought it if it didnt bring in any money, or didnt shoot a majority of what i required... but on the flipside, i think it was a rushed unit, as Sony were really milking the PD unit for what it was worth out to its last breath.. they felt rushed to get this camera out, hense its bulky and chulky build... if u hold a HVX or DVX, then hold one of these, u will KNOW which one is more comfortable.. and when running the streets for 4 hours shooting vox pops, its really does make a difference..
as for image, yes its good, if ur happy with standard super sharp looking DV... yes its sharp, but its still looks like common video... I know.. "fix it in post"
interlaced for me is like home video.. i cant sell it.. what sets my business apart, is that i shoot in progreessive or CF 25... the clients notice this... however irrespective of how u shoot with the Z1, it still doesnt carry the same DR (or higher DR) than a DVX100 does.. yes its definately sharper.. obviously.. but id rather sacrifice sharpness and go for a richer colour gradation, which the Z1 just cannot match IMO. Im in Pal land, so colour should theoretically be the same whether i shoot HDV or SD.. but its not..
LOTS of gradation is lost when shooting HDV
This is simply because of the gamma configurations within the DVX, as well as CCD size and encoded format... think about it. ur running twice the resolution at the same bitrate in a long GOP structure..... shoot the same water scene in DV however, and u wont have these encoder problems (save from flaring)
Hopefully the Z2 will shoot in H.264.. who knows.. but for now.. i am not goign to worry about HD... not any more anyway.. i worried abotu it before its time and made a big mistake.. i bought into it before these format issues were known and i didnt know any better, save for what SOny had told me as a distributor of these cams.. being that they glossed over many of the format "nuances" What i dont know, wont hurt them right.. Panasonic have taken on this attitude with the actual CCD info they provided on the HVX.. ie.. none.. so waht a HVX user DOESNT know, wont hurt Pana.. or so they thought, until they had no choice but to come out with the truth and fess up about the in cam scaling to HD resolutions.. They dont "lie" they jsut withold info to make sales...
Now though, im going to let everyone else make the mistakes and learn from them...
Im not saying one camera is better than the other, im saying that theyre differnt.. and with that, if i was to have had the choices i have now back then, i wouldnt have gone Z1.. Maybe the HD100 as the 720p is native res, teh lens is a little cleaner, image is slightly sharper, offers true Progressive scan (not frame) better build (work handheld AND shoulder equally well) in cam gamma configurations and a Native CCD block.. even teh Z1 doesnt run a native CCD...
now moving back to topic, the reason why i think the A1 will overide the HVX and Z1 is simply becuase its image has the potential to be almost anything u want it to be. Theoretically its identical to the H1, and comparisons of that unit have all been favourable, save for its HDV codec inheritance.. If these cams are anythign like the H1, then, hopefully we'll get a decent all round unit, clean optic, and which doesnt poo itslef when the lights go down.
We can only wait and see..
Chris Hurd August 13th, 2006, 07:56 AM Just a reminder, our Sony Z1 / FX1 forum -- the largest in the world among English speaking sites -- is located at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=75. The topic of this particular discussion is the Canon XH G1 and A1. Thanks in advance,
Heath McKnight August 13th, 2006, 08:26 AM Thanks for getting us back on track, Chris! Why don't we take the posts, including mine, about the Z1 and move it over to that page as a new topic?
Thanks,
heath
Joseph Olesh August 20th, 2006, 12:03 PM i am 90% sure that i am going with the A1 once it comes out. the price, the H1 technology, everything seems to fit. if money permits, and depending on what is available on the market next year, i will probably look to invest in the G1 as well- that would be a killer A/B cam duo, with the audio capabilities of th G1.
i have always been prone to lean toward canon products, going back to when i was doing primarily still photography. so in that, i am anxious to see what the XH series can do.
Chris Korrow August 22nd, 2006, 04:01 PM I went to one of the HD1 gigs in Nashville & said to myself if I could get that camera for $6000 with out the genlock & a 20x lens that is extended on the wide side, I'd get one. Well here it is for $4000. The A1 is all I need.
Though next time i'm thinking about what I'd pay for a new canon I'll make a few more requests.
Chris
James Sidney August 27th, 2006, 12:39 PM I'm all for the A1.
And I love the idea of getting the XH image in a GL package. My XL1s is fun to shoot with, but a pain to transport. My work is all backcountry and even using Lowepro's largest pack, I have to take off the awkward viewfinder/mic to store in the pack. I'll have a lot more room now, and less setup time.
Can't wait to get one.
James
Tom Hardwick August 29th, 2006, 01:49 AM [ incorrect reference removed ] list the Canon as having a 20x zoom all right, but the sad fact appears to be that all this generous zoom's all in the telephoto arena.
The lens is a 5.4 to 108 mm zoom as against Sony's Z1 (4.5 to 54 mm), so the Canon's not 'extended on the wide side' as you'd hoped for Chris Korrow.
I certainly hope this is a spec error and that Canon at least start at the 4.5 mm point. This equates to a 32.5 mm lens in 35 mm still photography terms, whereas 5.4 mm is something like 40 mm. Not wide at all.
tom.
Philip Williams August 29th, 2006, 05:52 AM [ incorrect reference removed ] list the Canon as having a 20x zoom all right, but the sad fact appears to be that all this generous zoom's all in the telephoto arena.
The lens is a 5.4 to 108 mm zoom as against Sony's Z1 (4.5 to 54 mm), so the Canon's not 'extended on the wide side' as you'd hoped for Chris Korrow.
I certainly hope this is a spec error and that Canon at least start at the 4.5 mm point. This equates to a 32.5 mm lens in 35 mm still photography terms, whereas 5.4 mm is something like 40 mm. Not wide at all.
Focal range is 32.5-650mm per the DVinfo XH A1/G1 FAQ:
http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/xhfaq.php
Just scroll to the section entitled: Does the built-in 20x HD lens on the XH camcorders have the same focal length as the stock 20x HD lens included with the XL H1?
And this straight from the horse's mouth:
http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20060726_xha1_xhg1.html
Scroll to the "Professional Optics for Professional Performance" section.
Just FYI, but this information was discovered with about 30 seconds of google searching.
www.philipwilliams.com
Chris Hurd August 29th, 2006, 06:23 AM Thank you Philip,
The focal length of the 20x lens on the Canon XH G1 and A1 is in fact 4.5mm to 90mm.
To avoid needless confusion, I have removed the incorrect reference from Tom Hardwick's post.
When in doubt on technical specs, just consult DV Info Net, because we're usually right.
Thanks in advance,
John Godden August 29th, 2006, 12:03 PM I can't help it, I've got to ask. Trust me, no dealer has put me up to this... nor Canon... I'm just curious, for our members here who while not constituting the entire market for these camcorders, certainly do account for some particular slice of it...
If you're actually thinking about buying one of these, which one do you have your eye on? The basic A1 for $4000, or the SDI-equipped G1 for $7000? I just want to get a grip on where the primary interest lays among our membership.
If the answer is "neither," then please don't vote. But if you're seriously considering one, then I'm wondering which one it would be. As for myself, I went with the A1. It's all I need.
Chris
If I go with a 'bigger unit' then it would be the A1. I'm still hoping a smaller HD unit will come on the market (with the functionality I want) but this A1 is the closest bet so far.
Thanks
JohnG
Raymond Toussaint August 30th, 2006, 10:24 AM The basic A1 Canon version is attractive for solo shooters. If I would use it in a studio (matching with other cams, or bluescreen work) the $3000,- difference for the G1 would not bother me. But every choice is premature: first the real images and than the disciscion.
For some documentary work - traveling and shooting in wild environments without AC power- it looks like that this cam gives you all you want. A point and shoot form factor and the weight and handling that is associated with it, long recording times, good audio, long and wide lens. 1080i is what is happening now in Europe, although the 1080p is what I want...
I wanted the HVX200 and got the budget to do so, but some things hold me up: I don't shoot with an assistant to change the P2 cards and to offload them, I don't have the power to run the portable computer to offload the cards. I don't have the muscles ( don't I? ;-) to hold the cam steady without a brace. So if I can shoot 25f I only need to look at the JVC HD100 again...
For all cam sales in Europe; editing is an important factor. For an Apple based editing/compositing studio we need FCP to do the job, 720P50 and its just not working...Canon needs to do that (25F) better than it would gain ground over here.
Alexander Ibrahim August 30th, 2006, 08:36 PM I don't think a laptop setup would be capable of capturing uncompressed HD at the full 1.5 Gbps data rate, but you might be able to capture to something like the Cineform Prospect HD format. The next question would be whether there would be any way to fit an HD-SDI connector to a laptop; if not then a small "Shuttle" style computer would be a more suitable option.
Well I am bored and found this interesting, so here I go rambling on.
To expand on what Kevin said, the reason a laptop can't handle uncompressed HD is the disks are too slow. WAY too slow.
The Expresscard slots are definitely fast enough to handle HD-SDI Dual Link or pretty much anything you could have done with PCI-X cards. Whether or not anyone actually does it, who knows. My guess is no, because laptops would need a second PC Expresscard slot with Fiber channel going out to a fast RAID array. By the time you include this array... well you don't really have a portable setup anymore, so why bother with the laptop.
The same goes for small "Shuttle" computers and Mac Mini's... they just can't handle the disks for this application.
Take a look at the Wafian HR-1 (http://www.cineform.com/products/WafianHR1.htm), which can record compressed Cineform 10bit video data. It has 4 500GB drives in a RAID 10 or RAID 0 configuration. Of course that's presently $17,000 USD.
Alternatively take a look at an Apple XServe which can handle two PCI Express 8X cards and has storage for up to 2.25TB. Add in a Blackmagic or AJA I/O card and fill it up with drives and RAM and you have a nifty solution that should handle uncompressed 10 bit HD - just barely. (190MBps for sustained read/write on a 3 disk RAID 0) While its a bit of a kludge it is certainly cheaper than the Wafian solution.
It'll be a while before we get uncompressed HD on anything truly mobile.
The Cineform codec is a good example of a system that might get into laptops soon with a RAID 0 setup. (using two laptop drives) I like Avid DNxHD better which for a 10bit 4:2:2 profile which requires 28MBps. We can do that today in a laptop. The next step is to use native HDCAM SR in a 10 bit 4:4:4 profile which runs at 440Mbps (55MBps), which leaves us back at the RAID 0 laptop. A single desktop SATA can barely handle HDCAM SR... of course I am talking about the 10000RPM Raptors, so a RAID 0 of two or more should do it readily.
I mention being able to "barely" capture some of these systems. I mean that I am assuming contiguous capture on a nearly empty drive so we get nearly optimum sustained write performance. You certainly can't count on that being the case- especially not on a laptop where you typically have only one drive available for everything- but its theoretically possible.
Well I don't know that I have anything insightful at all to add other than blabbering the obvious... so I'll quit for now.
Trevor Bray August 31st, 2006, 11:31 AM I use an XM2 which does everything i need. I film mostly Horse shows, Dressage, Jumping, That sort of thing for family and some commissioned work. Mostly hobbyist,some movie of the grandchildren. You know how it is.
Going HD is a WANT thing. Its the A1 FOR ME. Now, where can I pawn my soul?
Heath McKnight August 31st, 2006, 09:31 PM I use an XM2 which does everything i need. I film mostly Horse shows, Dressage, Jumping, That sort of thing for family and some commissioned work. Mostly hobbyist,some movie of the grandchildren. You know how it is.
Going HD is a WANT thing. Its the A1 FOR ME. Now, where can I pawn my soul?
If you buy one, come on down to Wellington, Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington,_Florida) and make a mint shooting polo and other horse events.
hwm
Trevor Bray September 1st, 2006, 11:41 AM Great idea Heath. The UK's biggest Polo fest happens just 20 miles from my home. Better go and get some shooting practice.
Heath McKnight September 2nd, 2006, 10:09 AM Cool, hope to see you here some day!
heath
Dean Digamon September 8th, 2006, 08:54 PM i was gonna pre-order mine
but BH stopped processing orders until tomorrow night.
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Kristian Indrehus September 21st, 2006, 05:58 AM The poll says it all. I do some multi-cam from time to time and still would consider two A1's before one G1. I'm so used to sync up manually anyway.
I have a XL-1 so for very critical stuff like drama I can use the SDI out in a one-cam setup.
I think it's great though that we now have a line of three cameras to choose from with the same great image.
Michael Kim October 3rd, 2006, 07:42 PM A1 all the way. It's the best option for a psudo-starving college kid like myself.
Letting those of you know who are having trouble with B&H that I just pre-ordered mine through Scott Cantrell (a DV member) at Tapeworks.
Evan C. King October 4th, 2006, 01:01 AM I use an XM2 which does everything i need. I film mostly Horse shows, Dressage, Jumping, That sort of thing for family and some commissioned work. Mostly hobbyist,some movie of the grandchildren. You know how it is.
Going HD is a WANT thing. Its the A1 FOR ME. Now, where can I pawn my soul?
If that's all you do and you want hd you should get an fx1 or fx7, what would you need 24p for?
Victor Burdiladze October 13th, 2006, 12:08 AM The lens is pretty impressive on both of these bad boys(A1 & G1); finally!!! I saw manually controllable iris opening. If you ask me, it was long due…
G1 for me
Vic
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