I have been trying different options other than using my XL H1 for capturing to FCP. So far I don't like the Firestore for many reasons and I prefer not to use the XL H1 as a deck. Has anyone used the Sony HC1 as a deck from XL H1 recorded tapes? Are these 2 compatible for playback via firewire into FCP5.

Note from Admin:

The answer here is either the Canon HV10, HV20, HV30 or HV40 consumer HDV
camcorder. But feel free to continue reading this entire thread if you really want to!

For 60i, yes.

For 24F and 30F, no.

Maybe you should wait few weeks for the Sony HC3, wich should be smaller and cheaper than the HC1, rumors said...

Thanks Barry. Ronan that's exactly what i'll do. Kind of ironic that I purchased Canon's latest state of the art only to have to buy a Sony camera so I don't wear the head on my Canon!

i spent the day on a stage shooting product demos with the H1. we used the camera to feed a dvcpro 50 deck component and 4x3. i can tell you that the quality of the image was very close, almost indistinguishable to shooting with the sdx900. we had to match footage that was shot with the panasonic on the last batch of these commercials.

tommorrow we wil be shooting a ton of green screen in the same manner. H1 to dvcpro 50 deck component.

this camera handles SD beautifully in a controlled environment. again, i cannot over emphasize that the workflow options were the number one reason i bought it and i do not regret it for a second.

vince

Vince or anybody that knows. Specifically how did you do this? I was just wondering if this was possible. DvcPro 50 is the ultimate SD format and I wanted to record from the XL H1 to the AJ-D93 or AJ-D92 Panny decks. Did you output from the HD-SDI or other output and was it a 4.2.2 signal?
Thanks,
Barry Gregg

If you read his post you can see that he gives you the answer on your question already:

we used the camera to feed a dvcpro 50 deck component and 4x3.

The SDI signal is indeed 4:2:2 by 8 bit, so if you got a DVCpro deck with SDI in, this is the option.

Barry,

Here is how we did it. Component out to sd93 component input. Audio either from the mixer to analog in the deck or through the camera to the deck. There was a bit of confusion on the best approach to this and we did encounter some sync issues. I believe that the TC from the camera to the deck with the audio and video from the camea to the deck is the proper set-up.

The comp. video output is 480 60i in SD mode regardless of the frame rate selected on the camera - same with the SDi output. As far as I know, the component out put is 4:2:2. I'll find out for sure when i go to build my composites.

Overall, the camera perfromed flawlessly. It was left on for about 16 hours over 2 days. We never recorded in camera. I had the Anton Bauer adapter and the power meter on an A/B brick indicated a full charge for the entire duration.

There is so much this camera can do that it is really astounding. I hope to discover 50% over the next few months.

vince

Hey guys,

I have an event shoot this coming week were I will have to shoot a couple hours in HDV 24F. Now I know I will have to use my H1 as a deck to import the footage into my G5 and convert it to DVCProHD for 23.98 editing. I never really used my cameras as a deck (I know this is bad) but I have no choice this time around.

Generally, how long is too long for using a camera as a deck? Or should I say, how fast do the heads wear and tear using it as a deck? I hate doing this, but I have no other way to import my footage.

My camera is brand new ... so I'd like to keep it as well kept as possible.

Michael, while it's not a great idea for the long term, it certainly won't hurt doing it for a while. Afterall, anyone who is capturing 24F footage right now has no other option than to use the camera as a deck.

It won't hurt...but let's hope a new HDV deck is out soon.

KW

Michael,
You should try it out before using it for workflow reasons. Capture Now in Final Cut seems to work the best since the HDV timecode doesn't always get found if you log clips with handles.
As for the wear issue it is eventually going to show up as a repair. I just don't like trying to explain to clients that the more expensive camera is also a two day rental for each day of footage generated if the post house doesn't own one as well for playback.
Eventually the Hard drive solution might be the best thing for all concerned but HDV isn't quite as straight forward a path as DV was.

Hey guys, I want to do a short I'm shooting in Avid Mac Xpress Pro, if I were to shoot in 50i, which is a 30 frame format as I understand, would I be able to put the tape in a SOny DSR-1500A, and digitize it at DV 25? I know I lose resolution, but I'll just redig when Avid releases the updated software for HDV. I've used FCP in the past, and I prefer to cut on Avid. Thank you for the advice. Any other thoughts on shooting rez, or other ideas that you think would help would be appreciated.

If you shoot DV, then you could play it back on that DV deck.

If you shoot HDV, no you can't play that back on a DV deck. The tape is the same physical tape, but the format is entirely different, and a DV deck will have no clue what to do with an HDV tape.

... if I were to shoot in 50i, which is a 30 frame format as I understand...

50i is a PAL 25 frame format. 60i a NTSC 30 frame.

I had an idea for making offline editing dubs myself, thought I'd throw it out to the fellas here. Would it be possible to go out via firewire or SDI from the XLH1 to a Sony DSR-1500A, genlock it so the TC remains the same, and record to a DVCAM on the DSR-1500A? This may be lunacy, or it may be a sound premise, if anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate it, and will try this in the near future.

I would do FireWire, It should work out for DV then.

If you use the SDI route you will need to figure out an audio path since they didn't embed the audio into the SDI. RCA outs from the camera. Not sure how accurate the timecode will be on the dubs from HDV, especially 30F and 24F.
If you go out firewire I am not sure if the camera downconverts HDV to DV like the Sony does. It does it on the SDI out so they might do it on the firewire as well. DV should be easy to make clones of.

Thanks guys, I'll let you all know how this experiment turns out.

I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to use the HC1 as a deck for the XL-H1 (50i footage only of course). This would be cheaper as a real deck and the HC1 may be useful for very sportive shooting (under water, helmet, etc.)

What do you think about this ?

Did someone already use the HC1 as a deck for some XL-H1's footage ?

Thank you !

...and it works nice, but actually i do my capture from XL H1. HC1 is one lovely camera, but AE1 is even nicer. Or why don't wait for HC3...

I wonder if it works woth 50F footage as well. Since FCP handles it as 50i, I presume it does work.

...HC1 can't handle 25f.

anyone heard of a h-1 deck yet?

I know the sony will play the 60i but what about the frame modes?

On that note does sony have a real hdv deck yet. The one I saw for the mini tapes only looks like a rip off for the price at this point.

Nice looking, just too much money for what it is. With no rs422 to boot.

At this time, there is no deck for the xl-h1, so you have to use the camera to capture the frame modes.

Maybe at NAB we'll know more...

I had a funny phone call from Canon yesterday. My usual contact there asked someone else to call me back when I called in about the XLH1 No Free Run TC In 24F DV as well as not being able to manually focus the lens during zooming.. a week and a half later they called back.
I asked him when Canon was going to let anyone know what was coming down the Pike as far as a Manual HD Lens, a Deck to play HDV 30F and 24F, An HD viewfinder etc. He told me Canon doesn't preannounce product until it is close to delivery. He didn't give me any hints about what is coming.
He asked me to call Canon at the Lake Success office and register my requests.
So if any of you want something different about your XLH1 or have a gadget or feature request you can call them because they are not going to tell us about anything new until they are ready to release it.

I'm calling my contact within Canon as well. Here's what I'm suggesting:

1. 20x MANUAL Lens
2. 3x MANUAL W/A Lens
3. H1 Deck with HD-SDI with integrated Video/Audio/TC

I'm under the impression they cannot do a hd viewfinder because of gop. Anyone know if that is true? I don't think any hdv cameras have hd viewfinders.

He told me Canon doesn't preannounce product until it is close to delivery.Long-term regular members of this site, that is, those folks who have been with me since the XL1 Watchdog days, know that this has always been Canon's standard operating procedure. I'm sorry that you're just now finding this out, but it is by all means nothing new; it's always been this way with Canon.

Don't forget that SONY has already (pre) announced their new HDV deck. I'm unclear (as are most) about whether it will be supporting the Canon 24F mode, but it seems like a very nice deck. Let's hope it will support it...

Kevin

Do you know where that link is? Will it have full tape size support and rs422?

See http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/6491

Two decks, the M15 and M25.

Any idea if either of these can be battery opperated like the M10?

It's not in the press release, but I bet we'll find out in a few days at NAB.

It would be much appreciated if you could ask while you are there. Not that it would be something I'd use regularly, it was a nice feature on the M10. Too bad it had a bunch of other issues.

Oh, believe me, we'll check it out as thoroughly as we can and report about it here.

Nice looking decks.

Any decks campatible with 24f announced yet?

To add to it, has anyone had a chance to check out the new SONY deck? Any news about if it's 24F compatible for the H1?

Thx.

Kevin

Though it doesn't answer this direct question...Evidently Apple has a 24f FCP ProtoType on display

along these lines
Any HD_SDI portable HDrives ?

So far I haven't heard anything here at NAB about Canon F-mode compatible deck announcements. Will keep checking.

Judging by the cost of the new XLH1 camera, I wonder if Canon will up the anti in terms of cost on the manual HD lenses they are almost bound to introduce soon. Does this then open the door to some judicial adaptation of existing lenses that they produce for other manufacturers, namely JVC and Sony.

Is it just my perception, but I can't take Canon seriously as a professional movie cam supplier, they always seem to be looking over their shoulder at their mass consumer market place. It seems that they don't plan a range of product just for the professional - take the XLH1 for example. It is obviously an adaptation, (however clever) of the existing XL series cameras which were pitched at the mass market of 'prosumers' (dreadful word), but now with a professional price tag. I would have been first in the que for the HDV camera if it had not been marketed with the 20x servo lens and a black paint job. I don't see the equivalent difference in their still camera marketplace, there you genuinely do get a lot more for your dough with Canon's professional products.

Rod C

I don't see the equivalent difference in their still camera marketplace, there you genuinely do get a lot more for your dough with Canon's professional products.
I don't agree here. The imaging-pipeline of a EOS-350D and a EOS-1DMkIIn are nearly identical, but the difference in price is significant! I think we live in an age, where digital imaging equipment is inherently of high quality. The days of noisy/low-sensitivity sensors and crummy lenses are over, and you pay a lot more for a few (but admittedly important) features as you climb up the ladder from consumer to professional gear. A sign of the times, I guess - but it makes high-quality gear accessible to almost everyone, and that's a good thing, IMO.

But back to decks: I decided to go the HDR-HC1-route. This way I have a backup-cam that's up to the task for event-videography. It works fine with 1080i50 and should also work with f25, although I have not tried yet. It also does in-camera HDV-to-DV down-conversion. Lots of bang for the buck, IMO. And if it's purely used as a deck, the HDR-HC3 is even less expensive.

FWIW,

Ron

When the xl-1 came out it was a pretty big deal with professionals who wanted beta type quality in a small package. Since then they have fallen behind the game a little I think.

If they do get some professional devices working with 24f it will be pretty big deal since sony couldn't make it work. They have a chance to prove themselves. I actually like the black look. The white looked pretty consumer to me, stands out too much.

IMHO, the camera looks like the mut's nuts. It's sleek black finish gives it that extra bit style, which seperates it from the XL1/XL2. It has some nice features like HD SDI, and is reasonably priced.

However, the lack of a deck which plays back 24/25f at the moment is a bit of a poor show. You can use the Wafrian recorder, but not everyone has that sort of cash, and it does make things a bit more tricky.

I've still to purchase my XL-H1, but will be doing so in the next 2-3 month no matter what. However, if there was also a deck available, I'm sure I'd find the cash quick smart.

i believe the goal now is to push you toward the firestore device." tape is dead," kinda like film was the last couple of years. its in all the papers ;)

..." tape is dead"...
Then I'm glad I got one of the last tape recorders..., the XL H1.

What is the alternative if you like to film in remote places, be able to travel reasonable light, have a rather safe and large storage for your footage and be able to capture many hours of high quality material during a journey?

TAPE is still the answer.

I don't think you'll get any argument from Craig on that one. His business is supplying filmmakers, and it's grown quite a bit ever since film was declared dead!

Film and tape will never be dead.

Film will still have it's place. Tape is still the best storage. Things may go optical one day but there is no way a hard drive will be the ideal backup or archive medium.

Plus the tapless workflow is still in it's infancy and I do not belive the big boys will be discarding tape or film any time soon. It's to pratical and reliable.

The tapeless workflow will just speed things up in certain areas of production.
Especially in post.

It's like when they said paper was dead. We still use it, just less and more efficiently.

After suffering another FS4 failure last night (on my FX1), I'm really greatfull for tape.
Bruce Yarock

Hi,
We are looking to upgrade from teh Canon XL1s to the Canon XL H1 cameras. I'm not too proficient with the camera terminology, but will certainly do my best explaining what we are attempting to do. (I may muck up some of the terms here...)

We are looking to purchase 3 Canon XL H1 cameras and shoot in a mode that looks similar to the Frame Mode option on the Canon XL1s. (We don't really need to shoot in 1048i.) We chose the XL H1 because we need to synch the cameras together using its Genlock capabilities and we like the reasonable size.

However, we've found that there isn't a deck compatible with the XL H1 natively and we haven't had any luck finding any other HDV camera that has Genlock capabilities.

So, my question is, do you all have any suggestions for a better HDV camera with Gen lock capabilities that will not give us so many deck compatability issues? Or better yet, do you know of a recommended deck to use to capture XL H1 footage?

Thanks.