I'm reading a book about Premiere Pro 2.0 by Jeff Schell from lynda.com. It starts out pretty basic (I can usually still pick something new up, though..), but one of the first things it talks about is workflow using the source monitor. Jeff says you drag your clips to the source monitor, set In and Out points, and then drag the clip from the Source Monitor to your sequence (subclips are mentioned later). Is this a standard workflow for people using Premiere? My SOP is to drag (tape-length) clips to a sequence right away, and slice-and-dice from there without worrying about In and Out points (other than performing rolling edits--GOD those are great things!). I don't think I've ever used the source monitor except by accidentally double-clicking an asset instead of a sequence...

Anyhow, I'm just curious if I'm short-cutting a vital part of the workflow, or if I really *should* use the Source Monitor to set In and Out points....what do other people do that yields great results?

Thanks,
Matt

Matt,

Since I helped do the technical edit on that book, I am biased. But even so, I believe that using the source monitor is the fastest way with some practice.

I used to do it your way. I changed to using the source monitor. I don't have to close gaps, I have a better idea of where my transition points will be, and I don't have to delete audio I don't plan to use.

For example. If I cut clips on the sequence, I then have to trim them back 30 frames on each end and close the gap. Then delete the audio if I don't want it.

If I use the source monitor, I decide what I want to use, move in 30 frames and set the in point. Same for the out point. So when I take it to the sequence, it is ready to butt up against the previous clip and I only take the audio if I want it.

Both ways work, but I think you will find Jeff's way faster once you master it.

I'm also having some issues with the workflow, especially cutting, both in the source window and the timeline. I'm used to working like you, bring in the huge clip on the timeline, and start trimming the fat. The shortcut for the razor tool is Control K. But you need to select each clip you want to cut, which means moving your fingers from the keyboard to the mouse. So much for making it easier, I could have just selected the razor tool and cut it manually with the mouse.

The source wind might be easier, if I could figure out how to do the same process using several in and out points. However, it seems like I am forced to do it one at a time, cut, move to the timeline, back to the source window to set new points.

My suggestion is lots of coffee and patience. Just do it, ya know?

Matt, i used to bring the whole movie down to the Timeline as well. I decided to use the Source Window in a project when i used PPro 1.5 and has never looked back.

Learn the keyboard shortcuts for In Point, Out Point, Go to In Point, Go to Out Point, Clear In Point, Clear Out Point, Clear In/Out Point, Insert Edit, Overlay Edit, Toggle Source/Program View, Trim Window, JKL-commands for playback, and how to target video and audio tracks and you will see that it really speeds up your editing when using the Source Window/Panel in PPro. With those shortcuts you rarely have to use your mouse when editing, thats why i recommend them. :)

Using the Source Window/Panel in PPro is so powerful once you get the hang of it, with or without using any keyboard shortcuts!

In Point=I
Out Point=O
Go to In Point=Q
Go to Out Point=W
Clear In Point=D
Clear Out Point=F
Clear In/Out Point=G
Insert Edit=,
Overlay Edit=.
Trim Window=Ctrl+T
Target Video=Ctrl++ or Ctrl+-
Target Audio=Ctrl+Shift++ ot Ctrl+Shift+-
J=Play backwards
K=Stop
L=Play forward
Toggle Source/Program View=Hum, i dont know the shortcut on a US keyboard since i use a Swedish keyboard. Go to Edit > Keyboard Customization and scroll down and you will find it.

Ctrl+Z to undo something comes in handy as well sometimes... ;)

/Roger

Steven,
I saw your name in there, which is one of the reasons I bought the book (Seriously!! nose all clean...)

I don't understand why you would need to leave 30 frame buffers and then take those out. It could be the nature of your shots, I guess. Usually, I'll watch the video(s) on the sequence, do a snip, ripple delete, and transition. For multi-camera shots, the rolling edit is just a god-send for getting cut transitions just right, and even for adjusting cuts covered by dissolves. Of course, I get most everything on one track, with titles, overlays, PIP, etc., on their own tracks...I still haven't figured out how to do a nice cross-dissolve between two clips on separate tracks (can it even be done?).

Now, with the sub-clips thing, I can definitely see the use of previewing/clipping in the source monitor first. Unfortunately I haven't installed PPro 2.0 yet as I'm in the middle of two projects. When I do install it, I'll give the source monitor workflow a look-see and serious consideration. Also, since this is the first book I'm readding on PPro, I doubt I've had opportunity to be exposed to this workflow before...

Thanks,
Matt

Learn the keyboard shortcuts for In Point, Out Point, Go to In Point, Go to Out Point, Clear In Point, Clear Out Point, Clear In/Out Point, Insert Edit, Overlay Edit, Toggle Source/Program View, Trim Window, JKL-commands for playback, ...

Roger,
Thanks, I appreciate the input. I know the keyboard shortcuts are in the customization dialog and some in help, but I appreciate your pasting. I copied those out to a document I'll print out... :)

Thanks,
Matt

Roger,
Thanks, I appreciate the input. I know the keyboard shortcuts are in the customization dialog and some in help, but I appreciate your pasting. I copied those out to a document I'll print out... :)

Thanks,
Matt
You're welcome!

I forgot Page Up, Page Down, Home and End, Left and Right Arrow keys that are handy when navigating the Source/Monitor.

/Roger

Matt,

It may very well be because I am a sloppy shooter. I shoot way more footage than I will ever need. I probably get 20 minutes out of an hour tape - tops. With the exception of concerts or other events. With huge gaps, ripple edits are kind of a hassle in comparison to using subclips.

Now that I shoot HDV, it has all changed for me. At the same time I started shooting HDV, I started using Scene Detection. So I only convert footage to the Intermediate Codec that I actually plan on using. I can always go back and convert more, but generally I get it about right the first time.

With Scene Detection, I never have a large clip, so I don't have as much cleanup to do, and I don't have problems with the bug that slows down the system when you use subclips from a large file.

Steven- How do you get scene detection to work? When I was capturing the HDV footage from my HD100, I couldn't get scene detect to work. Someone said it wouldn't work with mpeg.

On the other side of that coin, I was capturing old footage shot on my GL1, using the same as a deck. Scene detect was available, but didn't work. I also couldn't get PP2 to use my Dell widescreen flat panel TV as a second monitor. In playback settings, the only external device options were NTSC DV 29.98 and nothing. Working with HDV, I used the Dell frequently, without issue.

I hate it when my equipment developes mood swings and split personalities.

Uh, hmmm, I cheat?

I use HDVSplit. Works great. I review the files in VLC, then I use the Aspect HD utility HDLink to convert to the digital intermediate. I then can throw out any M2T file I will never use. I save the ones I might use, and convert only the ones I know I will use. And I seldom have to go back to get more footage, but at least I can if I want to.

HDVSplit and VLC are both free programs.

a little off topic, perhaps, but does anyone know of a shortcut that lets you set the in and out points for an existing clip on the timeline.

For instance, if you wanted to replace a clip on the timeline with other video, is there a way to just click on the clip and set both in and out points?

thanks

Steven, since you mentioned VLC - I was wondering if it comes with all of the codecs for the major formats (it's not clear from their website). I know there are some media players that would let you play several formats, but they seem to need those programs installed or at least the respective codecs - for example ACE Media Player plays WinMedia, Real, QT, etc, but only if players for these formats are installed. Basically I am trying to avoid installing unneeded programs...

The codecs included with VLC media player are listed in the VLC media player feature matrix (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html).

I never really noticed, I guess. Since it plays my M2T I just use it for that. I have BSPlayer from Webteh for other things like Cineform AVI.

when using clips from 2 unsynchronized cameras. I was most worried about synching audio, but after I get what I want from "cam a" into the timeline, and locate the start of "cam b's" clip, I float the mouse pointer over the "cam a" clip icon in the timeline, check the duration, then just add that to the time counter for the clip from "cam b" in the source monitor, then insert. So far it's worked for me. Just finished cutting clips from a 2 camera shoot, and I haven't been off by more than 3-4 seconds, and I'm getting better w/practice; towrds of the end of cutting, I was often right on the money, I usually take about 12-15 frames more than I need from "cam b", trim the clips if necessary, and snap in the timeline.

In instances where I am off by a couple seconds,, I use the wave form in the audio to eyeball lining-up the clips. Then I listen to both audio tracks to make sure I've got it right. So far, I've been happy with results.

Despite being satisfied with this method, I'd welcome tips on how to do it even faster.

...I still haven't figured out how to do a nice cross-dissolve between two clips on separate tracks (can it even be done?).

Matt

I've been able to do it with "Dip to Black", and haven't tried it specifically with Cross Dissolve, but I imagine it would be a similar approach.

I put a dip-to-black on track 2, ending it with the clip. then, on track 1, I added another dip-to-black, but in Source Monitor/Effects Controls tab, I changed the A/Begin and B/end sliders so A begins in the middle range, i.e. at black, and B ends with the image of the frame on track 1. In simpler terms, move the slider for image A to the middle, and the slider for image B to the extreme right.

I believe it should work. If you try it, please let us know what happens.

I'm a bit confused by this thread. Let me start with my process quickly.

I put all the source files in a folder usually called 'Raw Footage'. I also create a folder for each scene, and one for miscellanous clips.

Then scanning the footage in the source window, I make subclips, putting them in the appropriate scene's folder. Each is descriptively named. Sometimes I will throw the clip on a test sequence so that I can see the audio wave form. It is sometimes quicker to find dialog from the waveform. Note, you can only create subclips from the source window.

Then the scenes are assembled, and the scenes are assembled into the product. Color correction and audio enhancement is part of the scene creation.

So comments like not using the source window are pretty perplexing to me.

OK, I uninstalled every other player (except Windows Media Player, I don't think it can be unistalled since it's part of the operating system... or can it?), and "converted" to VLC.

I love it so far, but it won't start automatically when clicking on an link on the internet... any solutions, anything I need to set in preferences? I am talking PC here - I have to download media files first and then play them from the downloaded file... I kind of miss that function of WinMediaPlayer...

Thanks,

I'm a bit confused by this thread. ... comments like not using the source window are pretty perplexing to me.

David,
As I understand things, the user interface for PPro 2 is different from earlier versions of Premiere, though I've never used an earlier version, so I'm not 100% positive that's the case. PPro 2 has a "Project" panel that is basically a list of the files that you want to use in a project. However, in order to view the content of those files, one must use at least 1 of PPro 2's "built-in monitors" to actually view the files. PPro 2 has 3 such "monitors": the "Source" monitor, the "Program" monitor, and the "Multi-Camera" monitor.

The "Source" monitor allows viewing of the content of files listed in the Project panel, BEFORE they are placed on the Timeline. Therfore, simply including a file in the Project panel does NOT mean it will automatically be part of the final product. In order for that to happen, a file - or part of a file - MUST be moved to the TImeline.

The "correlation" seems to be that the Program monitor can be used to view only clips/files/part(s) of file(s) included on the Timeline, while the Source monitor will display files that are either in the Project panel, or already included in the Timeline.

Despite the "Source" monitor being available, PPro 2 also allows files listed in the Project "panel" to be dragged/included directly onto the Timeline without first being "staged" or "shortened" within the Source monitor. It's not necessary to use the Source monitor. That seems to be the point raised earlier in this thread - that some folks skip the step of using the Source monitor altogether.

If I understand you correctly, it seems as if you're already using the Source monitor. Some might suggest that the Source monitor adds steps to the workflow, but I think it really boils down to what makes the individual editor most comfortable. If the process you're using does that for you, then stick with it. After all, the editor needs to feel a sense of full control over the finished product. If your process gives you that, then "keep on trucin'."

I love it so far, but it won't start automatically when clicking on an link on the internet... any solutions, anything I need to set in preferences? I am talking PC here - I have to download media files first and then play them from the downloaded file... I kind of miss that function of WinMediaPlayer...
What browser are you using?

Once you've created subclips or duplicates, you can just drag them to the timeline. Same as FCP. However, first you need to create the subclips!

If you use the the Source window to create multiple instances (inserting multiple times from the same source), the clip instances can be harder to maintain. They don't appear in the project window.

What I'm indicating, is that to have a managable environment, you need to divide into workable parts. A 30 minute timeline composed of hundreds of 2-15 second clip instances is not managable, IMHO.

The source windows can also be used for fine tuning the in and out points of a clip instance. Once the clip instance is loaded there (by double clicking on it in the timeline) you can adjust it independently of the timeline.

There is a reference monitor, which I find useful for color correction. I think the multicamera is new...however I've only done single camera shoots. I wonder if it may speed scene creation by putting each actors takes in a different camera.

I've been able to do it with "Dip to Black", and haven't tried it specifically with Cross Dissolve, but I imagine it would be a similar approach.

I put a dip-to-black on track 2, ending it with the clip. then, on track 1, I added another dip-to-black, but in Source Monitor/Effects Controls tab, I changed the A/Begin and B/end sliders so A begins in the middle range, i.e. at black, and B ends with the image of the frame on track 1. In simpler terms, move the slider for image A to the middle, and the slider for image B to the extreme right.

I believe it should work. If you try it, please let us know what happens.

I'll give it a go with Cross-dissolve this week and see how it looks. Silly me for not thinking of that, since I use the same darn technique to fade titles in and out!!!

This has been a pretty informative thread for me. For my current project I went with using the Source monitor for setting clip in/out points. It's working pretty well, especially since there are large bits I need to cut out (it's a show, and usually I don't have to do too much cutting...) this time. I kinda wish that the source monitor were bigger, but I've been piping it out to a TV I use for that type of thing (just bought a new AC for the house--no chance of getting a proper monitor!!). Convenience wise, it seems a bit more convenient to set the in/out points in the Source monitor, vs. razoring clips in the sequence (less overall keystrokes, don't forget to change from razor to clip selector to rolling edit, etc). I have to say, it does seem to make my editing work flow easier.

I really appreciate all the input on this thread. Reading a book is pretty decent for information/learning, but input from people on different ways they really work during an edit session helps a whole bunch!

Thanks,
Matt

What browser are you using?
I am using IE with SlimBrowser running on top of it.

I am using IE with SlimBrowser running on top of it.
Okay, second question: Did you choose to associate VLC media player with video formats during the install process? That option is not selected by default. If not, you can run the install again (no need to uninstall the player before installing it).

Even at that, Windows Media file extensions WMV and ASF are there, but WVX and ASX are not. I know VLC media player can open .WVX files because I tried it. Your next best option would be to tell your browser what program you wish to associate with certain file extensions on download. Firefox/Netscape and Opera offer this feature, but apparently Internet Explorer/SlimBrowser do not.

If you didn't associate VLC media player with video formats on install, you can try running the install again and selecting that option, and see how that affects Windows Media files in Internet Explorer. If it still doesn't work, I don't know of any other option but to move to another browser.

OK, so much for VLC... I have re-installed it checking each and every possible function... Then I got on the VLC community page, others are asking the same question, no one bothers to respond. There's good advice on how to embedd VLC in your own webpage, but apparently it won't open regular media links. True, it plays all kinds of files located on my PC, but that's it.

VLC is now where it belongs, in the trash can... since it won't play Real Media anyway, I have to use three players to be able to play all three major streaming file formats (wma/wmv, Real, and QT). So if I re-install QT I'm back to where I started off, and will be able to play everything I need to play.

I'm just too used to IE to give it up - with SlimBrowser running on top of it, it has sooo many functions, a lazy guy like me just can't live without...