Is it true? You can't use frame mode if it's intended for Television broadcast?

Sure you can use Frame mode for broadcast. Generally it isn't encouraged because it looks so different, but people have used it for broadcast before and I've seen Frame mode XL1 video on satellite TV channels occasionally. Who says you can't do it?

Oh. Thank God. I saw another post where someone advised someone else never to use frame mode if they intended it for broadcast. I don't remember them giving any reasons. What I shot was a skit, to be used within a show. Frame mode would make it look different from the rest of the show, and more like a short film.

It's probably good advice not to use Frame mode for broadcast, but that's a very different thing from whether or not you can do it. Can you? Yes. Should you? That's another question entirely. Hope this helps,

There's a truckload of posts on this subject. Just do a search on frame mode.

I guess that brings up the other question, should you avoid using deinterlace in post when planning to use the project for broadcast?

What if you don't want to deinterlace?

Bruce Johnson has done docs in XL1 frame mode (for broadcast on PBS).

Ah. Thank you sir.

Nathan, if you are happy with reduced vertical resolution (halve if the deinterlacer is field repetition based) and halved temporal resolution (choppyness), then go on with deinterlacing your original (interlaced) footage in post. If you don't like to kill quality never deinterlace for broadcast apps.

What if its not for broadcast?
But we intend to show the video only on tv screen?

I've read the frame mode vs normal mode thread , and many prefers the frame mode, does this still apply if we are gonna get it shown on tv sets?

Josh,

I advised someone in another thread not to shoot an auto race in frame mode. Fast pans, which is basically all you do in race coverage, produce a jerky motion. This would become quite tiresome to watch after a short period of time.

Can you shoot for TV in frame mode? Absolutely. But, if you have a lot of pans, zooms, and movement, the results will not be as pleasing. You really have to carefully plan out your shots.

I love the look of frame mode, but if I plan on the shots having a lot of movement, I will not use it for broadcast.

HTH

Bill

HMM. Food for thought. Thank you.

Shooting in frame mode does result in jerkyness on fast motion but not allways in reduced vertical esolution. Some people apparently like this jerkyness and do associate it with "film look". The whole discussion about "frame mode", progressive shooting... becomes an old fashioned discussion, because modern diplays mostly use powerfull deinterlacers and manipulate the image data (remapping, gamma adaption,...). Even the jerkyness resulting from film footage is often being taken away by frame interpolation.

You'd still see it in the theaters, right? Just not at home on TV shows shot on film, that's what you're saying? I don't notice it in theaters unless I look for it, so could I assume, within reason, that the casual viewer won't notice it?

What I mean is that there is no longer a spacial (number of pixels, number of lines...) relation , nor a temporal (frames/fields per second... optical dutycycle..)relation between the original image and (depending on the display (CRT,LCD...) what is finally been seen. Everything gets optimized for "the best picture" within a specific display technology.

The debate was centered on wether to use Frame mode for Film Transfers.

THe prevailing theory is to NOT shoot frame mode for film transfers for fear of a loss of resolution.

I've shot for broadcast with frame mode ( almost 100% of the time, actually) & have seen it go to broadcast & I wet myself! It was looking very fine & "filmy" And as far as what I've read on this post about the car races shot at frame mode...I'd see no problem as long as you track your subject well. With my old Canon Optura, it shoots progressive scan in ALL shutter speeds. If you can track a moving target & keep it framed, you can shoot pro/scan at 1/8 second & it looks great. I understand the XL1s will do the same? Pro/scan in the slow shutters as well?

And...if anyone knows of the XL2? Will there be one? I'm waiting to get the XL1s but the XL2? 24P? Sorry, but I've been in the dark.

We shoot our whole show in frame mode. It has been accepted by Fox Sports Net, ESPN, OLN, The Outdoor Channel and local network affiliates. Never heard a comment about using frame mode and everyone thinks the quality is good.

Now, I don't regularly air on those stations, but everything I have submitted has been accepted after technical review.

Times are changing and as has been said 1000's of times since the introduction of DV, what is considered broadcast has more to do with how you put something together and what the content is more than what it is shot on. My old producer always said "Content is king for viewers. They don't get half of what we do to make it quality, nor do they care"

The war in Iraq coverage is a prime example. Peter Arnett did a behind the scenes piece and showed what equipment he was using. 3 Xl-1s cameras and a Sony PD150, all transmitted by satellite phone. Cool stuff! (and much of the footage being shot is in frame mode for easier compression and transfer.)

Here is a summary article on the changing of technology and broadcast.
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/bergman/1048703210.php

Great post, Michael, thanks!

It's fine for broadcast.
It's not fine for film transfers.

One thing to think about is there are not many people that have systems that edit in progressive mode. Even though you might shoot in frame mode you'll most likely edit and output via 60i, so we aren't "really" doing progressive. That might account for or add to those stuttering anomolies as well.

And as was mentioned before, the XL-1S does not shoot true progressive mode and does loose some resolution. It isn't visibly noticeable, but technically it is there.

Also as mentioned, unless specifically asked for you would always shoot interlaced video. We use frame mode for effect, but almost all other shows and spots we shoot are interlaced.

So if the question is just "is frame mode acceptable for broadcast," then the answer is yes. If the question is "should I shoot in frame mode," then the answer is most likely no.

One point that I did not see in these posts is that if you are shooting frame as a b roll camera on a news story and the principal is Beta or anything that's not frame, you guessed it, they're not going to match. Also, if you are shooting breaking news in frame with no intention (independently) of intercutting with Beta or anything else and producers like what you have and want to intercut your footage it's not going to match. Of course if it's great footage it probably won't matter anyway.

Hey all,
I shoot in frame mode every so often for broadcast on cable television, and most of the stuff is very fast moving subject matter such as paintballers and rollerbladers. Maybe I just don't have a keen enough eye yet for picking out discrepancies in the video I'm shooting but it looks pretty darn good to me during the broadcast. just my 2 cents.