thanks that did do the trick - but tell me is this typical? or am i missing something?

thanks that did do the trick - but tell me is this typical? or am i missing something?


As I said, mine works the same way. I found the trick while pulling my hair out and leafing through the manual. Page 42, something about SYNC toggels between SYNCRO and NORMAL. Does seem unusual that it always reverts to normal, but consider this, it does save you from going into the menu again to go back to normal. You just have to hit the SYNC button to continue in sync. Not sure which way is better, but this is the way it is setup.

Mike

I just got the fs-4 pro to use with my XL2. I was wondering if the quick time 24p recording setting is recorded at 24p, 24pa, or just 24 frames a second? I mostly work with Final Cut pro, and was just wondering about which settings will be the best for importing my clips into a project. When recording to tape I use 16x9 24p (2:3 pulldown).

When I was fooling around with the Fs-4 I had it set to raw dv, I assume that if my camera is set to 24p then it'll get to the fs-4 as 24p but as 60i.

So bascially what is the fs4 quick time 24p recorded like, would it be better to use that over the raw dv capture?

very new to the DTE style and for giggles have been trying to record tapeless using cannon XL2 and will not record unless i put a tape in - i have read manual couple of times and still nothing - i am asking you experts here what the heck am i missing?


ron

Hi Ron,

I had not tried to record without a tape before so I did it to see how it works.

Turn the menu on and go to SYSTEM, DV Control and turn DV Control ON, then exit the menu.

You will not see the timecode on the camera change or the record indicator come on while you are using this feature, but in the bottom right hand of the display you will see DV(and a little bent arrow) and a red ball or a square green box. The green box will be there when you are pausing and the red ball will show when you are recording to the FS-4 drive.

There will still be a "no tape warning" in the camera display, but just ignore it.

Additionally, you must put the firestore into the tapeless mode.

Try it and let me know if it workes for you.

Mike

there are a couple of places in the fs-4 menu where you choose "tapeless"... i do both of 'em... you also have to have the "e" show up in the top left corner of the fs-4 display, use the menu button on the left to select it, there is some menu info for that near the end of the fs-4 manual.

many operations of the fs-4 are not documented... for instance, once you have it set up to record in tapeless mode, you never have to change the menu settings again... when you plug it into the pc via the computer i/o port, just hit the dd/dv button once, and it'll show up as a hard drive.

i've probably recorded well over 1,000 tapeless video clips with the fs-4, it's been very reliable, with one very intermittent bug exception, which may or may not be peculiar to my particular setup with the hacked up firewire cable... sometimes it will fire up in this mode where it isn't recording to the hard drive, despite what the camera viewfinder display sez... when you hit the "rec" button, the fs-4 receives the signal and starts to record, but immediately stops, and it does that on every clip, until you turn off the camera or reboot it(?)

in order to make sure that you are actually recording, hit the middle button of the fs-4 to set it up to display "dv ntsc", which gives you the total amount of record time for the session you are in... you'll be able to see if it's not recording... you could alternatively play back the clip in the viewfinder, off of the hard drive, but that wears out the big rotary switch every time that you go in and out of vcr mode... once you are booted up in a tapeless recording session that works, it will always record, without failing.

once you have it plugged in to the pc, you can look at the log file in one of the subdirectories, and there will be entries that show details of every clip that was recorded.

overall, i am very happy with the fs-4 in tapeless mode, it's allowed me to do things that i really couldn't do before, because it saves the head and tape transport wear... it also extends the life of the camera battery quite a bit, because you aren't using energy to run the tape drive, and when you hit the "rec" button, it starts recording immediately, you don't get that tape delay.

For some reason, my NLE (Vegas) is reporting corrupt files with footage shot in AVI 1...won't open. Repair disk/clip doesn't fix. The files themselves will play in real player. Can I transfer (record to another FS-4)? How do I setup the two firestore to do that...?

transferring to another firestore would not be any different than transferring to your pc... i would copy everything that you shot over to the pc asap, then make a dv tape backup right off of the firestore, as it's playing into the dv camera/deck via firewire... that would also give you another way to capture the clips back to the pc, to see if they are good.

The firewire cable turned out bad...as I noticed the firestore was acting very sluggish with it connected. Putting a different cable between the camera and the FS... it works fine. What is strange is that only Vegas won't recongize the AVIs...but real player...media player...will play the files fine. I just captured the tape copy and ordered and new firewire cable...:-)

The firewire cable turned out bad...as I noticed the firestore was acting very sluggish with it connected. Putting a different cable between the camera and the FS... it works fine. What is strange is that only Vegas won't recongize the AVIs...but real player...media player...will play the files fine. I just captured the tape copy and ordered and new firewire cable...:-)


Make sure you are capturing as AVI-2 (Type 2) if you capture them as type 1, vegas will not be able to use them.

why is that?

why is that?


Vegas doesn't accept AVI-TYPE 1. It only accepts AVI-TYPE 2!

I had the same problem with my firestore. Change it to type 2.

Jon

I've now heard from a rep at Focus with this explanation for the runaround:

"Hello Joe,
We have developed a Quicktime HD encoding option for the FS4 HD, and will be releasing it very soon. This will make the unit very compatible with Final Cut Pro. I knew that was coming, but could not say anything about it until the company announcement was made (late last week). We are a public company and some proprietary information we are not allowed to disclose.

If you still want to return the FS4HD unit for credit, please confirm and I will get approval from our sales manager for the return for refund."

Okay, I'm new to the forum, new to the XL H1 and new to this FireStore hard drive. I do read the threads and find great information, just thought I'd say so.

Where's the dilemma? Making the camera and the FireStore talk. Well, they do talk, but not very well. I've setup the FireStore drive as instructed in the user guide and have put the DV control switch on in the XL H1. Between the suggested control settings on the FireStore and all the other crazy configurations I've tried, I still cannot successfully capture anything onto the hard drive.

Between the syncro slave, tapeless and local control options, the drive has said it was recording. I had the 'remaining' display up to watch the timecode wind down, but there was no change in numbers after recording was stopped. The camera did monitor the hard drive's status accurately. In the viewfinder (while the DV control is on) there was a readout between stopped status and recording status. So, I think it's safe to say they are talking, but just not very well.

Anybody?


-Austin

The XL-H1 & the FS-4 Pro will communicate.

The problem, and ONLY problem is there is not TIMECODE.

Focus Enhancements need to implement HDV TIMECODE.

Without proper timecode on the D.T.E., the Firestore FS-4 Pro is worthless in my opinon.

- ShannonRawls.com

Success.

The only thing I hadn't tried was right under my nose. SD. I had been fumbling around the entire time in HDV and the damn hard drive doesn't "do" HDV. I flicked the switch and instant clips were created. It seemed to be pretty sweet.

I wasn't too concerned about matching timecode or anything crazy, yet. My main goals with the device were to (a) simply capture footage in a tapeless manner, (b) figure out the timelapse feature, and (c) weigh down the back end of the camera if at all possible. (Which that last one didn't happen. The mounting kit as another wad of money. And that made the accessory mounting thing worthless.)


Thanks for the help!

I wish that there was someone from Focus still visiting this Forum.

What happened to Matt McEwen?

I have been wanting to report about my experiences working with the FS-4 Pro together with FCP5, but the project refuses to end.

I finally have a breather, while the end client evaluates the most recent edit.

I described a few experiences with the FS-4 Pro while shooting, in a previous thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=54297

I just wanted to follow up on that thread with a few observations I made during the editing:

Using the captured video from the FS-4 together with FCP was a major asset for me on this project. It really saved me hours of capturing and capture related frustrations. All the footage is technically flawless, both image-wise and audio-wise.

I had to adjust how I deal with clips collected into the FCP Browser window since I am used to doing long captures from tape and then marking the individual takes with the FCP DV start/stop detection function.

Since the individual takes captured onto the FS-4 are individual video files/clips, it requires a bit more organization than I am used to, in order to avoid mixing up multiple takes of the same scene (for example). I found that the most direct way to create a "fake" long capture is to put all the individual clips into a sequence and edit with that sequence, or use it to match frame back to the original individual clips. In anycase - dealing with lots of individual media files was new for me, but proved to be more useful in the end, than it was annoying at the beginning. One advantage to having each take as it's own media file is that it is very convenient to remove out-takes from the HDD completely.

I wasn't able to check if this was true for all the cases where the FS-4 appeared to have not captured footage while shooting, but it seems that most, if not all the shots (which I mentioned in my previous, related, thread) were indeed captured. I was planning to (re-) capture the missing shots from from tape (which I had running as a fail safe while shooting). I discovered that these clips were present but had a starting TC of 00:00:00:00. I can't explain why this happened, but apparently the FS-4 was periodically not able to read the EXT TC coming from the XL-2 while recording. (that is why I expected these takes to be missing, since I observed unchanging 00:00:00:00 PAL TC on the FS-4's LCD (normally an indication that recording is not happening on the FS-4)) I had the FS-4 set to SYNC SLAVE and TC EXT. Around 80% of the clips were fine. It seems like the FS-4 switched to TC REC RUN when it could not read the external TC.

I haven't had time to check if the clip TC of the other media files matches that of the tape. I was able to use the the clip TC to navigate to positions on tape and that was generally accurate, but I suspect that there may be a discrepancy of some frames between the clip's TC and that of the matching footage on tape in general. I will see if I can test that when this project is finished.

Cheers

Hi Guys,

Just wondered if I could get a little advice. I recently bought fs4 pro hd 80 gig. I new before I bought it that hdv wrappers are not currently supported but focus plans to release compatibilty updates as and when they do them. My main reason for using the fire store is so I have a backup for all my footage. However, what I want to know is this, will I be on safe ground after each days shoot downloading the raw .m2t's onto external 320gb harddrives and then accessing them at a later date when the NLE situation catches up, either to edit the native .m2t's or encode using cineform or fcp if they ever get thier heads round it. I don't intend on purchasing an HDV NLE until Ican see a practical solution. In the meantime anyone see any problems with what I've outlined above?

Regards Greg C

i haven't worked with hdv on the firestore, but what you want to do doesn't sound like a problem, based on my firestore dv experience... although you might want to research the timecode end of things, to see if that'll be a factor.

i guess by "compatibilty updates", you are editing with a mac? isn't fcp finally going to support native mpeg2 in the next release?

Thanks Dan,

Not really sure what NLE system yet. I think I will probably go with adobe as that's what I know best. However speakin to the guys at focus the other week it sounds like they are trying to get there wrapper sorted for FCP so I imagine that must mean that Apple have finally decided how they are going to deal with the 24p issue. As for native I'd happily go that way if a product turns up that can deal with the extra processing as Ive heard reports that it can be a bit clunky. I'll let you know what I go for.

Regards Greg C

I just moved up from my old FS-1 to an FS-4. The manual advised that there is a listing at the Focus Enhancements web site for the preferred formats (i.e., Raw DV, Quicktime, etc.) for the the various editing systems. Has anyone been successful finding this list? I remember one back in the FS-1 days, but I can't even find it anymore.

I can't find it either.

Maybe we should drop them a line.

Should we start our own list? -

FCP - will accept Quicktime without having to render.



(I know, ...I'm a big help) ;')

Ha! Might be necessary!

I've been using the FS-1 for several years with a MAC/FCP, so I'm presuming it's still Quicktime for that system, but I occasionaly have the need to dump data into other systems, so I'm a little uncertain.

It also seems to me like there used to be LOTS more real support stuff on the Focus website....?

(I did send them a note directly a couple of days ago, but no response, so far.)

Matt, are you out there?

Got a reply from Focus Support today. Apparently, there is no longer a listing on their web site. Below is a partial listing that I got from them. If you have a specific need, drop them a line.

Final Cut Pro: Quicktime
Adobe Premier: AVI Type 2
Sony Vegas: AVI Type 2 or Quicktime
Pinnacle: Pinnacle AVI
AVID: AVID OMF
Matrox: Matrox AVI

I am kind of curious about what AVI Type 1 is good for ... I answered my own question while I was asking it, by doing a search:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=56528&highlight=%22AVI+Type1%22

That is to say, I found out what the difference is between AVI Type 1 and Type 2. However, I am still wondering which NLE needs AVI Type 1 that can't handle Type 2? (Since it is not in the list)

When mounting the FS-4 on my MAC Quicksiver G4 DP, I consistently get 2 identical desktop icons for the FS-4. Both show the same info, and either one will open and allow me to dump the files to my media drive. Has anyone else seen this phenomena?

I have this phenomena too, with my G4 DP 1.42 GHz and G4 Dual 400 MHz. This doesn't happen when I connect the FS-4 to the computers for the first time after they have been freshly booted, but it appears whenever the FS-4 is reconnected after.

I have no idea why this happens. I mentioned it to Focus in my beta testing reports with the beta model, but it didn't seem to be an important enough of a glitch for Focus to mend it. It doesn't seem to have any adverse side effects other than being a little annoying, and unsettling.

I'm kind of glad to hear that it is happening to someone else as well - I thought it may have something to do with my computer environment.

I tried rebooting my MAC (DP 1G G4)-- I got the same results as you; only one icon. After disconnecting and reconnecting the FS-4, I'm back to the two icons. It appears to be widespread and repeatable. You're probably correct -- Focus must figure it isn't much of an inconvenience; only mildy unsettling!

It also appears that Matt doesn't lurk on this board anymore -- he used to be pretty responsive. I guess if it bugs me too much I can send a note to support -- Jim, at Focus, responded to my filetype question fairly quickly.

Cheers

It is too bad that Matt doesn't hang out here anymore. His presence, interest, and responsiveness were a major reason for me getting involved in the board and the FS products.

I even met him, in the flesh, at the IBC in 2004.

I guess he has been promoted or something. Sure do miss him here.

Hi Daniel,

Do you have any followup regarding the tc issues and fcp?

Thanks.

Ken

When I imported some m2t clips into my NLE (Vegas), I noticed two of the clips appeared to be longer in length (double in length on timeline) athough the file size was typical (bytes). The two clips in question had solid color frames in the area of extra length and no audio. Anyone seen this?

My bad...was problem with vegas...

I have an FS-4 and used it to test record a few minutes of footage. I tried to mount it on my PowerMac G5 but wouldn't mount. Then I tried on my PowerBook, and still the same problem. I have no idea what's going on.

Any help??????

Could be due to the way the FireStore was formatted. Is it NTFS or FAT32?

Chris: Its FAT32 from the factory....Don't know if it would be possible to have windows format it as NTFS, although it might be worth a try!

Vishad: I don't know jack about a G5 but I'll ask the same thing I have to ask myself every time I plug the FS-4 into my PC.....Are you in the computer plug or the DV plug?

My computer reads the unit like a DV camera if I am in the DV plug so I get the audio confirming a new connection but then find myself going "Where is IT?!?!" until I realize I did not swap the cable on the FS-4 to the computer connection.

Sorry for asking such a basic question but I have found, especially in trouble shooting PC problems, that it is usually a simple thing that slips by and messes the whole ball of string up.

Randy

I have an FS-4 and used it to test record a few minutes of footage. I tried to mount it on my PowerMac G5 but wouldn't mount. Then I tried on my PowerBook, and still the same problem. I have no idea what's going on.

Any help??????



Vishad,

This is a repeat from another post, but it may help you. You did not specifically say if the footage was not available or it just is not recognized, but since you said "mount," I will assume that the computer will not see the
fs-4.

This may sound silly, but the first time I used mine I failed to move the firewire to the computer port from the camera port.

Then, (and they put this where it is hard to find on the page before the hook up page, and don't explain it at all!!) you have to go into HDD mode, go to DD and press select.

This brings up the connect screen and tells you to "CONNECT," to the computer and then press "ENABLE." It will connect then just fine. When removing it, be sure to follow the directions there about exiting etc.

Hope that this helps, and if not let me know. A very poorly written manual in my IMHO.

If you need further assistance, please let me know.

Mike
Mike Teutsch is online now Reply With Quote

We are experiencing real problems connecting our firestore fs4 to our Mac - we go through the proper process, but it often comes up with the message 'failed', or the firestore restarts, or just nothing - what are the possible issues? The cables seem to be fine, we cycle through to the correct screen (HDD then DD drive then enable) but now more often than not - nothing!
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Graeme Moodie

OK, been reading alot, but what's the real RELIABILITY of this drive? I'm planning on running it 20hrs per week. Any of you using it regularly? Any problems?

Moved here from Open DV Discussion.

Hi, I just got the FS-4 to go with my Canon XL-1s. Records and plays back great...on the camera. However, the supplied 6 pin-4 pin cable does not work with my HP. Is there another cable I can buy? Can I get a 6 pin-6 pin? Or, a 6 pin-usb? My 3 year old HP does not have a 4 pin dock. Bob

Hi Bob,

We do sell 6-pin to 6-pin cables on our westore and through our dealer channel, but it is probably better to just go and buy one from a computer store. Any 6-6 pin cable (within 1394 spec) should work.

Hope that helps,

Matt

Matt, thank you for the quick reply. I am off to the store right now. Thanks again. Bob

i wanted to ask this for a while. The LCD on my FS-4 looks lousy. Kind of like smears going down

anyone else having this. Kind of annoying to have to send it in just for that but ...

Hi Michael,

Have you tried adjusting the contrast on the LCD (last setting in the SETUP menu)?

Matt

I have had mine for less than a month and have hardly used it --- mine has started doing it as well. The faceplate has come off too. Do I need to send it in?

Oh, and I have tried setting the contrast as well, too. Doesn't do anything for me.

-- Update
The streaks are fading away. I think it got a little hot and started to go away. I looked at the back of the faceplate and noticed that the backing on the 3M tape was not taken off, so it was never stuck on in the first place. It is on there now - not sure why it didn't come off before.

it seems to have to do with heat

now when i turn it on it isnt there but last time i saw it was right after i copied the whole disk over and it was quite warm

wonder if i should be concerned about this

will watch it

make sure that you aren't blocking any of the vent holes on the back or sides of the unit, it'll run too hot if it can't get enuf air.

Hi Michael,

If your unit is under warranty, contact Focus tech support. This should be covered under your warranty.

Hope that helps,

Matt

I recently ordered, received, tested and returned a Firestore FS-4 HD. Before purchasing the unit I looked over the messages on this site, among others, and knew that there was a chance it would not work out for me, but the seller's return policy made the risk worth taking. I am writing this posting to provide information and possibly help out others who were in the same position as I was.

My intention was to use the DTE option of the FS-4 HD to lessen the wear on my Z1, instead of purchasing a deck (which I am now doing) and avoid capture time. The concept is a good one, here is why it did not work out for me;

The HDV format recorded on the FS-4 HD does not work with Final Cut Pro, at all, any FCP version. This is not new information and I was dumb to miss it. On the other hand, the Firestore sell is pretty hard and in my opinion purposely missleading in this area. From now on I will always be suspect of their claims. (And don't talk to me about work-arounds, I buy solutions, not hassles.) Industry publications and most online review sites provided the usual press release based, no-real-world-usage-write-ups. They have advertisers to answer to. User reports are what matter.

My next step was to consider, "O.K., the HDV option does not work, maybe I can just use it to record DV." No. The DV compression recorded to the FS-4 HD is of an inferior quality to just about any other available today, and I have seen them. Maybe not bad for everything, but forget broadcast or professional DVD.

It has a fan kicking in. A quiet fan, but a fan nonetheless. I hear it, the mic hears it. I read a lot about claims of a new fan solution, which I assume is included in the FS-4 HD. From my experience I have found spinning camera record mechanisms to be audible even with the ol' industry standard Betacams, so forget adding a hard drive cooling fan hiss to the mix. Your shooting situations may not be audio sensitive, so maybe you can live with it, I couldn't.

I would also consider that the unit has many vent openings, which allow dust to get in. I work in all kinds of situations, an exposed hard drive is not practical.

The FS-4 HD did function in many ways as it was advertised to, such as sync operation and time code (time code tested only with DV). Overall, the basic operation of these units seems like it will work for a lot of people, as the postings testify. But I would not suggest purchasing a Firestore FS-4 HD unless you are sure the compression works for you and the fan noise is not a problem.

Bottom line, I do not think that DTE technology is quite there yet for many professional situations. The good news is that it will probably not take long for that to change.

Beyond all of this, the unit I recieved would not start with a fully charged battery, only with the AC adapter. Bad luck for $900.00. I guess.