Chris B. is right. I just shot a big international event last week. All the pro media were credentialed & tagged around the neck. The number of DVX 100s, Z-1s, XLs, etc. on bare necks was staggering. They couldn't all be dentists.

There is nothing professional about an inanimate object. Cameras cannot be professional.
TT

Apparently, the professionalism of the inanimate camera is indeed significant.

I tried to get a Sony Z1U "Accidental Damage" extended warranty from the Sony Style store and was turned down because my camera was "professional" product from the "professional" division. I will drive there tomorrow and tell them that my Sony Z1U can not be "professional" as it is an inanimate object. Surely, they will then sell me their comprehensive extended warranty.

Glint, very much agreed. I've sold pieces shot using mpeg4 clips from my still camera with sync sound off of a consumer voice recorder plugged into a $29.95 mini-jack lav. That was "professional." And I make my living from my Sony A1U, which, aside from the fact that it has XLR inputs, is almost certainly not a professional camera by *anyone's* definitions.

jeeez!! here we go, again, with the labels. why can't we just let go of all this BS. If video is your passion, what does it matter. Is there some resent against dentists? Seems to me, many times, a dentist can afford much nicer equipment than a struggling cameraman waiting tables to pay the rent. It's all so much of a waste of time to categorize, label and descriminate.

having said that, I'll add that from a purely subjective opinion, I really, really like my new HD110. It's so much more of a pleasure to use than my XL2. and it's infinitely adjustable....automatic....what's that?

I tried to get a Sony Z1U "Accidental Damage" extended warranty from the Sony Style store and was turned down because my camera was "professional" product from the "professional" division.

The fact is, these cameras come from completely different divisions of the company. Sales, warranty support and service for the professional products is handled completely differently. SonyStyle is strictly a consumer outlet. You can't buy a Z1 or a PD-170 from SonyStyle, so why would they sell you a warranty for one?

The combination uses of business and luxury consumer that were pointed out by Chris Hurd have been known for years. Due to this, I have been calling my VX2000 (recently sold) a "biZluX" camera since before the google was popular. It has both a Z and an X making the word totally hip and if you capitalize those letters it looks like 1337-speak which is far more useful in today's world than standard English. Ya gotta know how to talk to teh kids these days. If you call it "prosumer", you are just a square.

The truly funny thing is that with the number of professionals using this forum, we could change the word that "prosumer" cameras are called. :)

I don't think the definition will disappear simply because it was banned from this forum. Of course we could simply stick our heads in the sand and pretend we're still living in the stone age:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosumer

I don't think the definition will disappear simply because it was banned from this forum.Don't underestimate the power of The Force.

The fact is, these cameras come from completely different divisions of the company. Sales, warranty support and service for the professional products is handled completely differently. SonyStyle is strictly a consumer outlet. You can't buy a Z1 or a PD-170 from SonyStyle, so why would they sell you a warranty for one?

When I was shopping around for an HDV camcorder, I noticed that the Sony Store offered an accidental damage warranty for the FX1. I liked Sony's terms better than Mack's . So, I asked the Sony Style store if they would sell me a warranty for an FX1 that I purchased from another source (BH Photo). No problem. One salesperson actually provided me with quotes for both the FX1 and Z1U. When I went back for the Z1U, they asked me for my sales slip so that they could FAX it to their parent division. I was close to the 30-day deadline, and they couldn't get the Z1U warranty in time, so I just bought a Mack warranty.

I don't think the definition will disappear simply because it was banned from this forum. Of course we could simply stick our heads in the sand and pretend we're still living in the stone age:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosumer

I checked the Oxford English Dictionary and found that "Prosumer" had been added. Further checking also revealed the word "gullible" had been removed.

TT

We're in shallow and dangerous waters when a wiki is cited as being authoritative. Oxford dictionary still holds sway, however. ;-)
But I love "gullible."
So many of us are.

Aaackkk!!!! Wickipedia has "prosumer" as if it's a real word! History is going to look back on that entry as the beginning of the end of civilization.

That settles it. I hereby declare the non-word officially banned.

Aaackkk!!!! Wickipedia has "prosumer" as if it's a real word! History is going to look back on that entry as the beginning of the end of civilization.

That settles it. I hereby declare the non-word officially banned.


I always felt the word "prosumer" was a good way for the companies to tell us that it is user friendly enough for everyday consumers yet sturdy enough and with enough manual controls and features to appease a professional. I thinks it's better than saying a hybrid consumer/professional camcorder. Or a mixed camdorder. Or whatever else they might call it. Plus, "prosumer" sounds alot better than "confessional". :)

Ozzy

I think what we have are Compact Professonal HD camcorders--CPHD camcorders, and ENG camcorders, and PHDs--Professional HD camcorders, ie., the HDCAMS, Varicams, etc. So, CPHD, PHD and ENG.
Nah, that sucks too.
OK, I give up.

It is just an indication. There are three main categories: consumer, prosumer and professional. It is hard to distinguish what is professional and what is not. I think the build quality is of great importance as well as the feature set. I would not call a Sony HDR-FX7 a professional camera. It's a prosumer camera. The HVR-HC1 and HC3 are clearly consumer camcorders. Everything above $2000 is a prosumer camera in my eyes. The line between prosumer and professional is harder to define. Sony for example, lists the V1 and Z1 on their professional site, and not on their consumer site. Which would indicate that those are professional video camera's. I think within the professional video camera category, there is just a low, middle and high segment. The Cine Alta is clearly in the high segment, whereas the V1 and Z1 are in the low segement.

But I really do not see the problem of using prosumer. The alternative would be to call it the "amateur segment". Let's keep it prosumer.

I think Bill Pryor is on to something.
Compact versions of things are:
1) usually less expensive
2) have fewer features
3) represent a trade off between size and function
When I think about it, the Z1 really does seem to be a "compact" version of a pro level camera.
To me, "Prosumer" sounds self contradictary to the point of stupidity.
So, why not:
-Consumer
-Compact Pro
-Pro

IMHO, price is the major determinant in which cameras compete with each other. After price, it is features/functionality. Clearly, if two products are the same except for a significant price difference, the cheaper one wins. However, most buyers...of any product...will consider any alternative in their price range.

So, the A1, V1, Z1, HD110, and to a lesser extent the HVX200 would be competitors. The H1 and G1 would more likely compete with the HD200/250 and to a lesser extent the HVX200.

If the SI-1920 was in a prosumer handycam package, would it be less of a camera? I don't know, however it would be sitting on the tripod behind me.

To me, "Prosumer" sounds self contradictary to the point of stupidity.
So, why not:
-Consumer
-Compact Pro
-Pro

Why name it anything? We don't give different names to different sizes of HDTVs do we?

I'd like to see camcorders borrow more of the features found on higher end DSLRs :

1) Focusing zones and dynamic group modes (even if they don't work at f/5.6 and smaller apertures). Camcorder auto-focus really has to get out of the "focus on the back wall" mode.

2) video histograms or colored-metering-zebra stripes on record and playback , if even held for one frame after computing

3) audio level histograms
Held over the last few seconds
Those peak meters don't hold long enough to be useful for level adjustment