I shot recently a tv commercial on my dvx100p in regular 24p (standard). I obviously worked with the material in 29.97, and performed no "pulldown" since I didn't shoot in advanced. Creating a quicktime or viewing the commercial in my timeline before compressing for dvd output, i don't get any problems with motion. However ... after exporting as an mpeg-2 file for use in DVD studio pro2, and then viewing it on my 27" Panasonic television, I see some REALLY jerky motion problems that didn't exist in the uncompressed versions of the project. It's not just a subtle 24p strobing dea. it's obnoxious in one particular scene. Should I use innobits compressor instead ? Does the FCP supplied mpeg-2 compressor do this to all video shot in 24p mode with 1/24 shutter ?



Thanks for any help or advice you guys can offer.

Can I edit stuff shot at 24P on Final Cut Express? What about shot at 30P and what if any is the advanteg to shooting 30P over 30 I?
Thanks,
Ben

FCE HD doesn't have native support for 24p; here's a table on Apple's site that compares features between iMovie HD, FCE HD and FCP HD: http://www.apple.com/finalcut/. You could use something like DVFilm Maker as an add-on however: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/dvx100.htm

I think the distinction you want to make is 60i vs 30p. In 60i each frame (1/30th sec) consists of two fields (odd and even) that each have 240 lines. Since the two fields are captured 1/60th second apart moving objects will have a comb-like appearance on their edges. Also, very thin horizontal lines could end up being captured in one field and not the other, creating a flickering effect. To minimize this, the odd and even fields are blended in the camera which reduces vertical resolution by about 25%.

With 30p the entire image is sampled every 1/30th second which avoids the issues with motion and vertical resolution in 60i. It has a somewhat different look due to this. You should be able to edit 30p footage in FCE since it doesn't involve frame rate conversion like 24p.

This document discusses progressive scan in more detail: ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/papers/Progressive-WP.pdf

This is probably a silly question, but I searched through every 24p thread I could find on this site and couldn't find a clear answer.

I shot some 24p video using normal pulldown (3:2) in 16:9 on an XL2 and I'm trying to bring the footage into FCP5. I have tried several sequence/capture settings that various people have recommended to others who have shot footage with my exact settings on the same camera. Some say the sequence and the capture should be 23.98 fps, some say only the sequence should be 23.98 fps and the caputre 29.97 fps, while others say the sequnce should be 29.97 fps and the capture 23.98.

Regardless of what setting I've tried for capture, I can capture the footage fine and it will play in the viewer fine, but when I render the clip in the timeline, it introduces the interlacing artifacts on every 4th frame. My question is, is this normal to have the interlacing artifacts after rendering and when I print the footage back out to tape will the artifacts still be there?

I realize this thread is over a year old but ... I shot some stuff on my XL2 in 24p and I don't seem to be having trouble editing it in imovie. I haven't tried it in FCE HD yet as I just got the program a few days ago and have yet to really get a chance to spend time with it.

Is it still the case that imovie and FCE won't edit 24p? What gives?

BO'B

Am I wrong or is 24p just 24 frames inside of a 60i stream and is edited in a regular 60i timeline, and 24pA is true 24 frames and edited in a 24p timeline. If this is the case then iMovie and FCE should have no trouble with that, just with 24pA. Just my 2 cents :-)

Am I wrong or is 24p just 24 frames inside of a 60i stream and is edited in a regular 60i timeline, and 24pA is true 24 frames and edited in a 24p timeline. If this is the case then iMovie and FCE should have no trouble with that, just with 24pA. Just my 2 cents :-)


Absolutely correct.

Absolutely correct.

If this is the case then could you still technically convert 60i footage to 24p using Magic Bullet in FCE?

If this is the case then could you still technically convert 60i footage to 24p using Magic Bullet in FCE?

No. FCE doesn't allow you to have 23.98 sequences, which would be needed.

I too have had a VERY hard time finding one CLEAR and straightforward workflow for capturing 24p 16:9
HOWEVER- I need it for regular 24p, not the 24pA.

So can someone break it down-- easy setup=?
Capture preset=?
Timeline preset=?
Export file with what settings?

And further- how to import to DVD studio Pro and maintain the 24p... all the tests I've done have exported my 24p to 29.97 and its NOT progressive...interlaced.

I kindly appreciate someones help with this-- I know its been quite the 'overasked' question, but it seems every post I find contradicts what I just rest elsewhere... Also my tests have failed to help me figure it out.

As of right now, I'm capturing 24p with the regular 29.97 anamorphic setting and am not sure if I'm using the feature properly.

HELP PLEASE !!

I will forever be in your debt!

~jeff

If you want a 24p timeline, and export 24p MPEGs for DVD, you should be have shot/be shooting 24pa. But it sounds like it's too late.

So:

1-Digitize using DV NTSC 29.97 16:9 capture preset. This gives you 29.97 DV files with the 24p frames inside to be extracted.

2-Remove extra fields (aka pulldown) using Cinema Tools. You'll have to do this on a file-by-file basis. When doing so, you'll have to tell Cinema Tools what the pulldown pattern is...you'll need to read up in the Cinema Tools manual to better understand this.

3-Bring your resulting media into FCP. Edit with the DV 23.98 Anamorphic Easy Setup.


Frankly, it's step two that is going to give you gray hair. Cinema Tools has to get the pattern just right for every clip.

Unless you have LOTS of time to figure this out, and ABSOLUTELY need to deliver a 24p native DVD, I'd give this one up. When you need a 24p native DVD, you shoot 24pa and edit in a 24p timeline, that's the easy way.

If you want a 24p timeline, and export 24p MPEGs for DVD, you should be have shot/be shooting 24pa. But it sounds like it's too late.

So:

1-Digitize using DV NTSC 29.97 16:9 capture preset. This gives you 29.97 DV files with the 24p frames inside to be extracted.

2-Remove extra fields (aka pulldown) using Cinema Tools. You'll have to do this on a file-by-file basis. When doing so, you'll have to tell Cinema Tools what the pulldown pattern is...you'll need to read up in the Cinema Tools manual to better understand this.

3-Bring your resulting media into FCP. Edit with the DV 23.98 Anamorphic Easy Setup.


Frankly, it's step two that is going to give you gray hair. Cinema Tools has to get the pattern just right for every clip.

Unless you have LOTS of time to figure this out, and ABSOLUTELY need to deliver a 24p native DVD, I'd give this one up. When you need a 24p native DVD, you shoot 24pa and edit in a 24p timeline, that's the easy way.

GREAT! Nice and straightforward- just what I needed.

Now-- whats the point of 24p in normal mode then? What are the best settings to use since I shot in regular 24p?

GREAT! Nice and straightforward- just what I needed.

Now-- whats the point of 24p in normal mode then? What are the best settings to use since I shot in regular 24p?

Regular 24p mode is for working in plain 'ole DV 29.97. In other words, for compatibility.

I'm not clear if you used 16x9 crop (letterboxed), or 16x9 anamorphic. If you used the latter, you want the DV/NTSC 29.97 Anamorphic easy setup. If the former, just plain DV 29.97.

Regular 24p mode is for working in plain 'ole DV 29.97. In other words, for compatibility.

I'm not clear if you used 16x9 crop (letterboxed), or 16x9 anamorphic. If you used the latter, you want the DV/NTSC 29.97 Anamorphic easy setup. If the former, just plain DV 29.97.

I used anamorphic- so I use that setup. Thanks!!
So I take it that 24p is 24 frames to fit into 29.97 due to some sort of flagging issue? What I've tried to read has been WAY over my head in terms of specifics...

So I take it that 24p is 24 frames to fit into 29.97 due to some sort of flagging issue? What I've tried to read has been WAY over my head in terms of specifics...

24p (with pulldown added, which is what the DVX/XL2 does) is 24 frames per second that have extra, redundant fields added to "pad" out the 24 frames to 30 frames per second.

Go to adamwilt.com. He has a great explanation of this with graphical representations.

I should add, you need to understand exactly what 29.97 regular DV video is comprised of before you tackle 24p.

I couldn't find this particular topic addressed elsewhere in the forum, so. . .


I have an edited piece, footage shot on an XL2 at 24p, 2:3:3:2 pulldown, 16:9. How would I go about making it 24p that's printable to a miniDV tape? I'm not that familiar with FCP. Thanks.

Anyone? Anyone?

Since 24p footage from the XL2 is meant to be used in a 60i timeline, and is better for going back to tape, and 24pa is for a 24p timeline, and better for DVDs or other progressive distribution methods, isn't there a way to make 24pa footage back into 24p inside FCP?

I guess I could just put the 24pa project (the rendered, final cut of the piece, that is) on a DVD instead, without compressing it, and transfer it off the DVD into Vegas (which is what I have at home, the FCP doesn't belong to me), and worry about it there. . .

Can someone explain to me why video shot in 24P using an JVC GY HD100U, after being imported into a Mac G5 through Final Cut Pro software, is interlacing?

How are you importing, Via FW?
Where are you seeing the interlacing artifacts?
Are you importing to some codec other than HDV?
Are you SURE that it was recorded in 24P?

You must have shot in NTSC-DV mode - 24P normal with a 2:3 pulldown.

I did import via Fire Wire and I see the interlacing during playback in Final Cut (obviously most noticeable when the video is paused and one can see the lines around the moving subjects). The video was shot in 24P SD, not HDV.

I figured it was the result of the pulldown but was not sure. Tim, can the pulldown be removed through Final Cut if video had been recorded in 24PA?

Thank you guys for your input.

The HD100 essentially functions as a DVX100 when in DV mode.

24P mode will capture and lay 24fps to 60i tape in a standard 2:3 pattern.

You can use Cinema Tools to batch "reverse telecine" your clips after you have captured them as standard NTSC 29.97fps. The disadvantage is a slight quality loss due to the fact that half of the frames need to be re-combined from split-fields, and then written back into a DV quicktime file.
Of course, if you have no immediate need to edit in a 24P timeline, then just leave it as-is and cut in a standard NTSC 29.97 timeline, being cautious not to make edits on pulldown frames.

If you had shot in DV 24PA (advanced 2:3:3:2 pulldown) mode, then you could have either had FCP remove the pulldown during capture, or remove it after being captured as NTSC.

The advantage of using 2:3:3:2 pulldown in DV is that FCP can easily discard the pulldown frames and you can immediately get to work in native 24P timelines. Also, there is no quality loss when discarding the repeated frames from the quicktime file.


The concepts being discussed in this thread really don't have much to do with the HD100, but specific FCP workflow understanding common to all 480P24 acquisition (DVX100, XL2, SDX-900, etc.) so I'm going to move it to DV Editing on a Mac.

I appreciate it very much. And thanks for moving it to the proper forum.

I'm seeing this behavior, too. And it's weird. I have two different events I filmed with the same camera (XL2), same settings (24pA) and the files look very similar in FCP. But one renders smoothly into quicktime files, and the other has this weird every-4th-frame interlacing artifacts.

I'm really confused with this.

I am very confused as well. Can someone explain whether or not removing the pulldown is nessecary while editing DV footage? When I capture 24P dv footage I then use Cinema Tools to remove the 2:3 pull down and that seems to take care of the interlacing. But recently, someone told me that is unessecary since DV is a interlaced format and the extra frames are ment to be there.

So, answer me this batman. Do I have to remove the pull down at all? PLEASE HELP IM CONFUSED! I'm seriously just thinking about switching to film...jk.

OK, so let's have a thread that shows the proper workflow from going to 24p>Final Cut Pro>DVD Studio Pro and then show the workflow for 24pa>Final Cut Pro> DVD Studio Pro.


There is a whole lot of sporatic information out there but I have not found anything that details what settings FCP need to be at for a 24p/24pa workflow, and proper encoding from FCP to DVD Studio, whether you use compressor, or export quicktime movie, or what.

Basically, all I'm looking for is the proper settings for both 24p, and 24pa.

Maybe... if we get the proper information, we can make this a sticky.

I posted it about a year and a half ago. Try looking back in the FCP or Canon XL2 forums. The question has come up on many occasions and you should get several hits by searching on 24P and FCP.

-gb-

So why is there no sticky about a 24p workflow for Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio pro?

I am also having the exact same problem.

I have a tape that has both 60i and 24f footage (mostly 24f) from an HX-A1. When 60i clips hit a 24p timeline, they require rendering. Once rendered, the 60i clips play back jumpy, while the 24f clips play fine.

Is there an easy way to mix both 60i and 24f footage on the same timeline?
Perhaps I should try 24p footage on an HDV 60i timeline? Any guesses here?

Use the Nattress Standards Conversion (http://www.nattress.com/Products/standardsconversion/standardsconversion.htm) filter to convert your 60i to 24p, then put it in your 24p timeline. Works better than most converters.

I exporting my first HD 24p project (shot on JVC hd-100) from FCP to DVD Pro. I usually export by making a quick time movie. My question is, do I need to do anyting in the settings dropdown menu or do I leave them on current settings. Do I have to do anything different or special when exporting HD 24p?

In DVD Pro do I need to open it up in HD or is that only if I'm going to make a HD DVD? If I'm not mistaken a HD DVD will only play on a computer or if you have a HD DVD player. How much is lost burning to SD DVD?

Thanks in advance,

Carlos

Moved from JVC Pro HD to Non-Linear Editing on the Mac.

(1) HD-DVD's burned from DVD Studio Pro are encoded with a Red Lazer on a regular DVD and only play on a G5 or higher Machine or the first Toshiba HD player before any updates. They DO NOT play on the new players with the upgraded firmware or the XBOX HD-DVD player.

(2) You should encode with compressor which will automatically make it a 24P file.

(3) HD-SD = 1280x720 to 720x480. That's how much information you are losing. This is not to say that SD DVD's burned from HD100 footage looks bad, because it doesn't. In fact, it looks incredible. I use Compressor's Best Quality 16:9 setting and the results are incredible.

Hope this helped.

Thanks Steve,

I have to be honest Steve, I have always shied away from compressor because I never have used it before. You know how you find something that works easy and you stick with it like a quick time reference movie. I’ll give it a go and let you know how it turned out.

Other then selecting the best quality 16:9 setting is there anything else I need to tweak? I noticed there was a frame rate setting although it was set to the same settings as what I captured so I’m guessing that’s ok? I started the export and it looks like it is going to take a bit over an hour for a 17 minute video. Does that seem about right?

Sorry for all the questions, but I’ve gone through the manuals and the really don’t cover in much detail about HD 24P.

Carlos

Compressor should detect it for you. I do not screw with the settings. You might as well give it a try.

Compressor now does a much better job than it used to in previous versions. My work flow is:

1. Make a QuickTime movie from FCP using the same settings as your setup. Don't use QuickTime Conversion.

2. After doing this you'll have a 720p24 movie (what I refer to as a Final Cut Master). Open Compressor then drag this movie into it. Steve's suggestion of using 16:9 Best Quality is exactly what I do. No need to change any of the default settings. BUT, make sure you select AC3 audio and not aif. Compressor will make a 24p file if that's the frame rate of what's put into it.

3. Bring the resulting .m2v and .ac3 files into DVD SP and author your DVD. I always make a disc image rather than burning a disc out of DVD SP so I can make duplicates whenever needed.

Hi,

I want to know the best way to accurately test my camera footage on a movie theater screen.

I bought a new camera (JVC HD110U), am shooting some 24P test footage, and will edit with the latest version of Final Cut Pro (Studio).

Should I burn a DVD and play that? Should I output to tape and play it back from a tape deck or my camera? If a tape deck, which one, or does it matter?

The theater is giving me some free time to test my footage before my main shoot. I want to see how my test footage looks, but honestly don't know the best way to go about that. I would appreciate some insights!

depends on their projector imputs....

from my z1 to my 720p projector... I print back to tape, then output using component and it looks great.

I've also played fullscreen HD quicktimes from my macbook to the projector from the dvi-vga cable.... looks great.

burning to a traditional SD DVD will not look as good.... not bad.... but not as good.

there are dvd players that will play HD mpeg files out of their HDMI output... but I have yet to try it.

I'm sure this has been discussed on this board quite frequently lately... I searched back a few pages and wasn't able to find anything. With the newest version of fcp, will 720p, 24p shot with the 110, function properly? Or, is this program needed? http://www.lumierehd.com/currentbeta_download.php
Thanks a lot, guys. Take it easy...

Douglas, you might think about up-grading to FCP 5.1.2. This will allow you to work with 24p inside FCP without added software.

Excellent. Thanks, man. I appreciate the reply.

Hello all... I have a feature film that is a 1920x1080 24fps FCP project... A film festival I am screening at is using an Omneon system....So I giving them a quicktime movie on a hard drive instead of an HDCAM tape etc...

They told me that they will convert my file from 24fps to 29.97 before encoding it into mpeg2 for the Omneon system...

To make things easier I want to give them a 29.97 version... So whats the best way to do this? Export it out of FCP and just set it to 29.97? Or use compressor?

Anybody have any experience doing this?

Thanks!

Both FCP and Compressor will do the job, but incorrectly. To bring it up to 29.97, both will repeat every 4th frame once, giving a little bit of a stutter.

To do it right, you have to use After Effects. Bring the 23.98 file into a 23.98 comp, then go to render it out. In the output settings, you have to specify "fields", and then a pulldown pattern. Doing both of those will automatically change the output framerate to 29.97, which you'll see on the right side of the dialog. Then hit "go", and wait a good long while.

Of course you'll have to pick an output codec that makes sense for you...

To do it right, you have to use After Effects. Bring the 23.98 file into a 23.98 comp, then go to render it out.

Thanks for the tips Nate... Will it make a difference that my source is 24p rather than 23.98? The film is made up of 3d animation that was rendered out at 24p... I'll do some tests in AE, thanks again Nate.

I don't see a preset for importing an HDV 1080 24P clip into Motion. All kinds of other settings but not HDV 1080 24P. Anyone know how to do HDV in Motion, is it possible or is there another way for this to be done I am missing?

I posted this question a week ago but I think it got lost. I am still trying to get an answer.

I don't see a preset for importing an HDV 1080 24P clip into Motion directly. All kinds of other settings but not "HDV 1080 24P". Anyone know if there is a setting? If so, how to do HDV 1080 24P in Motion, is it possible or is there another way for this to be done I am missing? Thanks

John

Have you asked this question one the apple discussions forum?
They might have specific answers.


Andrew

where is the setting in MOTON: HDV 1080 24P?
I did look but was not able to find any info. This is the only forum I use. I have been on others but frankly can't stand them and for the most part never go there. They remind me of Ham Radio/CB chat in the mid 70's. I don't want to sign up for any others. I have found there are enough well informed people right here. Thanks:)

John, the Apple discussion sites have application specific forums. They are easily searchable -meaning you need only go there to find your info... many smart folks over there. I have always found the answers to Apple specific apps there in a few seconds. I searched your topic and found answers


http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=656