Sorry for the multiple threads but a few pre-purchase questions (and jitters) have come up after talking with B&H rep.

He is recommending HD filters . . . is this the way to go with UV and Polarizing filters? Is there a difference between SD filters and HD filters?

He also suggests Sony HD Master @ $16.00/tape; After reading posts here I was planning to go with Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ @ $5.19/tape

Thanks again!

Don't be sorry for multiple threads, put all of your questions into one!

There is no discount for buying at B&H that I know of, except the peace of mind you get by doing it. That alone is well worth it!

I would think that a good name brand filter would be just fine, Tiffen, etc... Just don't get a $5.00 new one off of ebay.

I use Sony premium tapes, I buy 50 at a time, at about $3.00 a piece and have never had a single problem.

Good luck with your new camera, I hope you do get it.

Mike

Dear Dick,

The Panasonic tape you selected, AY-DVM63MQ, is a very good choice.

Others have had good luck with more economical tapes. Personally, I use the Panasonic Master Quality tape that you have choosen.

It is highly recommended that you chose one tape and stick with it. By this I mean that you should only record to the tape you select, and equally important that you only playback this type of tape.

Of course, as you probably know, others disagree with this advice.

But you are about to purchase a very good and expensive camera. A few extra dollars per tape is rather insignificant and good insurance against having problems.

Sony tapes are another good choice. For what it's worth, on every professional shot that I have been on, they have used the Panasonic Master Quality tapes. This was good for me as I would not have wanted to put another tape in my camera anyway.

Sorry to butt in, iam finding this tape thing a bit confusing to say the least

When i got my XLH1 it came with 3 sony digital master tapes of which i have not used, as iam also using Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ and due to the weather have only shot 2 tapes so far with no problems!

It just worrys me that if you have chance of that great shot and then its wasted by dropouts you would have wished you had the more expensive tape

So . . .can anyone pipe in on HD vs SD lens filters. Do you use them, are they necessary ($100.00 + for UV - quote from B&H and a special order to boot)?

Sorry to butt in, iam finding this tape thing a bit confusing to say the least

When i got my XLH1 it came with 3 sony digital master tapes of which i have not used, as iam also using Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ and due to the weather have only shot 2 tapes so far with no problems!

It just worrys me that if you have chance of that great shot and then its wasted by dropouts you would have wished you had the more expensive tape


Spend your money then, but I'll keep mine!

Mike

So . . .can anyone pipe in on HD vs SD lens filters. Do you use them, are they necessary ($100.00 + for UV - quote from B&H and a special order to boot)?


What does it tell you when, with all the HD cameras that B&H sells that, they have to special order this $100.00 UV filter?

Mike

I have no actual knowledge as to the filter issue, but it doesn't seem likely that there would be a significant performance difference as the standard filters are quite acceptable for digital slrs.

I have used the Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ tapes for the past eight months in a Sony HVR A1u with no problems with all shooting being done in HDV. As a result, I intend to continue to use these tapes in the XL-H1 which I should receive this week, unless I encounter issues using them, which I do not expect to happen.

Mike

yes i get the message i was just asking

First, I think you should definitely get the Sony Mastertape. I do. It's a small price to pay for the knowledge that you are using the best tape with the best backing and lubrication out there. Whatever you do, you MUST stick with the same tape because of the head-wear issue.

Second, You might get the UV filter and screw it on and just leave it there as protection for your extremely expensive lens. Of course there will be a little condensation from the air trapped in there so you will have to clean from time to time, but I am on getting one soon for physical protection.

Best

Harry.

Mike

yes i get the message i was just asking

How about this! Buy the Sony tapes like I say, keep your camera clean, use the Sony's until you have just one drop-out, if you ever do! Then change to the $16.00 each tapes, and see how long it takes for that same one time drop out.

Sounds fair to me!

Mike

Dick,
I don't know what SD filters you were considering, but I wouldn't worry about them at all if you purchased a well known brand such as Tiffen or Formatt or B&W or Schneider. These will be more than adequate for HD. Frankly, I think the "HD" accessories are a lot of hype and a way to make more profit.

I purchased that HD filter. Sure is clean and nice. I can't compare it to a "SD" filter, but I can tell you this: plan on getting a different kind of lens cap.
Bugger, that.
Even a standard/generic 72mm cap didn't do it. Plan on finding either "over filter" cap or something else. I ended up with (I think) a 67mm that JUST fit inside the filter without touching the glass.

I purchased that HD filter. Sure is clean and nice. I can't compare it to a "SD" filter, but I can tell you this: plan on getting a different kind of lens cap.
Bugger, that.
Even a standard/generic 72mm cap didn't do it. Plan on finding either "over filter" cap or something else. I ended up with (I think) a 67mm that JUST fit inside the filter without touching the glass.


Sounds like a no starter for me and my XLH1.

Any good quality filter will do. The same Tiffen (or other) filters used on video cameras are used on 35mm film cameras.

As for tape...at the recommendation of one of the dealers (Zotz) who sells lots of Canon HD cameras, I'm using Panasonic AMQ tape (Advanced Master Quality). They're just over $8 apiece from our local tape supplier.

I purchased that HD filter. Sure is clean and nice. I can't compare it to a "SD" filter, but I can tell you this: plan on getting a different kind of lens cap.
Bugger, that.
Even a standard/generic 72mm cap didn't do it. Plan on finding either "over filter" cap or something else. I ended up with (I think) a 67mm that JUST fit inside the filter without touching the glass.

Specifically, what filter did you purchase?

This does not sound right. I have many 72mm filters for my Canon Lenses. In all cases the standard lens cap fits fine.

Did you purchase a "Thin" or "Slim" filter that does not have any outer (front) threads, one that an additional filter can not be screwed onto?
Some "Slim" filters come with an "over the filter" cap.

Specifically, what filter did you purchase?

This does not sound right. I have many 72mm filters for my Canon Lenses. In all cases the standard lens cap fits fine.

Did you purchase a "Thin" or "Slim" filter that does not have any outer (front) threads, one that an additional filter can not be screwed onto?
Some "Slim" filters come with an "over the filter" cap.

That is what I found when I went to B&H. No outer threads on the filters I looked at.

All filters are not equal but how much do you need to pay to get a good one? I don't know. Maybe it is about time for someone here to do a practical filter shootout; one without filter, and a few with cheap and expensive filters.

I know from my time at Victor Hasselblad we had a discussion about their expensive filters. The technicians at the development department told me that especially for long telephoto lenses, the filter surfaces have to be very parallel because otherwise it will act as one extra front lens, detoriorating the otherwise carefully designed lens system. They had found not all filters were created equal. (The tele lens has a more flat front lens than its wide angled cousin and a non parallel filter causes a a relatively larger difference.)

So please go ahead and make a test. It could be very interesting. Why spend excessive money on the filter if it doesn't make any difference? Better put the money on other stuff. But I guess this HD camera needs good parallel glass, especially when you put on any of the tele converters ...

BTW, the thin filter without threads at the front is made for wide angle lenses where the protruding metal could vignette the picture. Also useful as the front filter if you need to stack several filters. I prefer an ordinary UV filter with front threads for the 20x lens. It gives a little more protection and you could put on a polarizing filter or anything else on top.

I have recorded about 40 Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ successfully and have had no problems so far. I used a cleaning tape after 25 tapes just briefly for safety before an important shoot. I would take this tape over Sony even if I could get the Sony for half the price. But that is my opinion. Sure many tapes could work. It is also a question about what a lost take is worth to you. But I wouldn't put cheap tapes in my camera.

I guess there is a hype about this HD and clever or not knowing salesmen/companies try to get extra here ...

Of course a HD camera needs better tape than a DV camera with a quarter of the resolution they may tell you and most people take that bite.

Not so, the data rate is not faster because the frames are more compressed. The HDV is compressed over a group of frames (GOP). So it is very important to not get any drop-out. Any minor dirt or bad part of the tape could ruin a dozen of frames or so.

Conclusion: You need a tape with consistent quality with no dirt. A tape which could be stored without change over time. A tape with good lubrication which will not cause loose particles. And so on. Or in other words: Exactly what a premium Master (mini-DV) tape is produced for. Please correct me if I am wrong.

All filters are not equal but how much do you need to pay to get a good one? I don't know. Maybe it is about time for someone here to do a practical filter shootout; one without filter, and a few with cheap and expensive filters.

I know from my time at Victor Hasselblad we had a discussion about their expensive filters. The technicians at the development department told me that especially for long telephoto lenses, the filter surfaces have to be very parallel because otherwise it will act as one extra front lens, detoriorating the otherwise carefully designed lens system. They had found not all filters vere created equal.

So please go ahead and make a test. I guess this HD camera needs good parallel glass.

BTW, the thin filter without threads at the front is made for wide angle lenses where the protruding metal could vignette the picture. Also useful if you need to stack several filters. I prefer an ordinary filter with front threads for the 20x lens. A little more protection and you could put on a polarizing filter or anything else on top.

Good post Johan! Yup, the filter should be flat, clear, and parallel. Lacking in any of those could cause distortion, but it would probably be hard for anyone to see it, depending on the subject. Shooting a chart yes, shooting wildlife probably not.

Buy what you can afford.

Mike

Specifically, what filter did you purchase?

This does not sound right. I have many 72mm filters for my Canon Lenses. In all cases the standard lens cap fits fine.

Did you purchase a "Thin" or "Slim" filter that does not have any outer (front) threads, one that an additional filter can not be screwed onto?
Some "Slim" filters come with an "over the filter" cap.

I don't have the camera here, so I can't check the brand name, but yes, there is no front threading. The Canon cap has nothing to grab on to.
I honestly dind't know what I was getting. The sales guy said, "Ohh.. You GOTTA get this cool HD filter." I said, "Really, why?" "Well you have a hi-def camera, right? You NEED this HD glass." I bought it - literally and figuratively.

My XLH1 should be coming this week or early next, so i'm looking at this thread for hints/tips.

I have the option to use either

Sony DVM63HDV
Sony DVM60PR
Panasonic DVM60FE
Panasonic DVM63PQ

Which model would you guys suggest?

They're all relatively cheap tapes, with the top being the most expensive, and the bottom second expensive.

I will be buying 50 of these tapes, that would also be used in a Sony Z1(on hire) also. Aswell as an XL2.

Martin

Hi Martin D.
I think you have to try out what you think is the best tape.
I myself use this one, Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ Mini DV Tape 63Min Master Grade, and think it works fine on my XL H1.
Earlier I used a cheaper tape, I had some bad experience with, but not with this one.

I dont use "cheap" tape shooting in HD, but than again, different countries - different prices, so a cheap tape in one country might not be so cheap in another country :-)
Compared to other countries, Norway isn't the cheapest country to buy electronics and "stuff". One DV-mini tape with good quality is about 70 NOK, in US dollar it'll be around 8 - 9.

Good luck with your new camera, I'm sure you will enjoy it a lot.

Dear Matthew,

Formatt labels some of their filters "HD".

I consider Formatt filters to be very good. If you have a Formatt filter, do not feel that you have been ripped off as you have a very high quality filter.

I'm also using the Panasonic AMQ tapes.