Hi,
I took some footage today that I need to deliver tomorrow (pretty much raw, aside from cuts etc).
I have mixed both SD25p and SD50i for this (fast pans/zooms don't suit progressive very well).
I have chosed the Easy Set up option of DVPAL - I couldn't see a way of discriminating between the interlaced and progressive however - is this set up good for both? What's DV 50 PAL??

The client requires short (7 seconds) bursts of footage which will eventually be incorportated within a 3D visualisation video and therefore I have to make this 4:3 (After Effects uses square pixels in this ratio).
I presume I can mix the frame rates within the timeline, but the client wants individual segments of footage (1 per shot basically) which means me creating around 20/30 little .MOV files when I export...would I therefore be best creating a new sequence for each shot or can I export each 'edited clip' from the timeline and create a individual file for each?

I've had a quick scout around the net but nothing as yet as helped...and he'd dearly like these files tomorrow am!!

Many thanks.

Hi David.

DV50 PAL is DVCPRO50 (PAL). DVCPRO50 is a Panasonic codec and I reckon it's far superior to the DV codec (DV PAL). It gives bigger file sizes but I prefer to use it whenever I am working with an SD timeline.

I don't think it's necessary to make a new sequence for each little exported clip. Just set an in and out point in the timeline for a small "clip" and then the resultant .mov file will only contain the footage between those points.

Hi David.

DV50 PAL is DVCPRO50 (PAL). DVCPRO50 is a Panasonic codec and I reckon it's far superior to the DV codec (DV PAL). It gives bigger file sizes but I prefer to use it whenever I am working with an SD timeline.

I don't think it's necessary to make a new sequence for each little exported clip. Just set an in and out point in the timeline for a small "clip" and then the resultant .mov file will only contain the footage between those points.

I might give DV50 a whirl then David - still ok with the JVC? The files sizes worry me a little but my next acquistion is a Raid Array drive (G tech most probably).
Bit confused as in Easy Set up there is DV50 and DVCPRO50 (and there are options for both these in anamorphic also!)

So, I could have a timeline containing, say, 30 clips and then reset the in/out point each time I export? Sounds like a much better proposition!

...and fine mixing 50i and 25p? I noticed on capture that the 50i had lines around the subjects when the camera panned...might have resolved itself when the clip was played back though).

Many thanks.

David,

Your confusing frame rates with scan methods.

Your DVPAL timeline will be interlaced whatever the method of capture and you can determine whether your quicktime movies are progressive or interlaced when you export.

Just create one timeline if you find that easier to work with and use 'I' and 'O' for the part you need to export each time.

Don't forget DVPAL uses CCIR pixels, not square.

Hope that helps,

Liam.

I might give DV50 a whirl then David - still ok with the JVC?
I'm not actually sure if the JVC HDV camera is compatible with DVCPRO50 in terms of capturing or printing to tape. You could try it. But setting the Easy Setup to DV PAL can't fail in terms of capturing over the FireWire. Then you could make a DVCPRO50 sequence and edit your clips in that. As you are exporting to .mov files and not printing back to tape, you could stay in DVCPRO50 from there on out.


Bit confused as in Easy Set up there is DV50 and DVCPRO50 (and there are options for both these in anamorphic also!)
There's DV50 and DVCPRO (not DVCPRO50). I'm not 100% sure of the Panasonic evolution of these codecs, but (vaguely) I think they first brought out DVCPRO, then DVCPRO25, then the vastly improved DVCPRO50. All of these are SD codecs. Then they brought out DVCPRO100 which they later re-named DVCPROHD as it was their first HD codec.
(I could be way off with this, but that's the impression I got.)
If you shot your footage in 4:3, stay away from anamorphic.


So, I could have a timeline containing, say, 30 clips and then reset the in/out point each time I export? Sounds like a much better proposition!
That's right.

...and fine mixing 50i and 25p?
I haven't actually tried it but it should work okay. I'm not sure how progressive shots and interlaced shots together would actually look aesthetically, but FCP will render all of the footage in the timeline into whatever codec you have selected.

David,

Your confusing frame rates with scan methods.

Your DVPAL timeline will be interlaced whatever the method of capture and you can determine whether your quicktime movies are progressive or interlaced when you export.

Just create one timeline if you find that easier to work with and use 'I' and 'O' for the part you need to export each time.

Don't forget DVPAL uses CCIR pixels, not square.

Hope that helps,

Liam.
Cheers Liam - I think I must be???...some of the footage was captured as 25p (25 frames progressive - and I'm fairly sure the SD 25p is true progressive on this camera) and some 50 i (50 'frames' interlaced).
Slightly confused that my timeline will be interlaced...or is it only the HDV of this camera which is true progressive (or am I barking up the wrong tree?)

I'm pretty sure that After Effects automatically adjusts the pixels to square (768 x 576)...although if there's a way for me to present this footage already in square pixels it might help.

If you shot your footage in 4:3, stay away from anamorphic.

Aye will be. I shot some anamorphic before, but didn't realise the client would only be using 768 x 576 ratio - you end up losing a lot of your image here.
For these projects (incorporated into 3D animation projects) I'll have to stick in 4:3. Of course that means HDV is out for such jobs - I wonder how people would get around that? You'd zoom in an lose resolution which kind of goes against the point of using HDV...[EDIT] Just read that HDV only uses square pixels...

Aye will be. I shot some anamorphic before, but didn't realise the client would only be using 768 x 576 ratio - you end up losing a lot of your image here.
For these projects (incorporated into 3D animation projects) I'll have to stick in 4:3. Of course that means HDV is out for such jobs - I wonder how people would get around that? You'd zoom in an lose resolution which kind of goes against the point of using HDV...

David, you've just brought up a very intriguing point. My initial conclusion on this is that you will get a better quality image at the end of your workflow if you DO shoot in HDV.

Think about it. You are shooting 1280 X 720 pixels. Normally if you drag that clip into a 4:3 SD timeline (such as DV PAL or DV50PAL) you will get the black "letterbox" on the top and bottom of the frame. You then double-click the clip in the Timeline and expand the frame using the "scale" in the Motion tab of the Viewer until the point where the black letterbox bars disappear. You will lose some of the side pixels (from the 1280 width), but you will still have the 720 horizontal lines of pixels in terms of quality!

Okay, it's true that your PAL timeline is reducing everything to 576 horizontal lines, but the reason why Lawrence of Arabia looks great on your PAL TV set (which has reduced Lawrence of Arabia to only 576 lines) is because the source material was much higher resolution (being shot in 35mm film or higher) to begin with. So it gives a much higher quality image, even when downconverted to 576 lines, than something which was shot in the first place on a 576 line camera.

And that's why I reckon you might get a better quality result shooting in HDV. (I hope that made sense.)

Yes it does David - good for these animation projects as the pixels will already be square! Must be the first time I've made an intriguing point on these boards mind :)
To be honest, I'm still a bit wary of HDV (JVC HD100) and Apple - I had saved your workflows (and have downloaded DVHSCAP and MPEG streamclip should anything untoward happen...and the odds suggest it will happen!).
After these next few jobs I'm going to start playing around with HDV until I'm comfortable...it's left a slightly sour taste though this 'native HDV' FCP editing, but I can't really comment till I have at least given this a go.

Still unsure over why my timeline is interlaced though (most of the footage will be 25p)? The 50i footage will be 25fps...

And I think you can alter your timeline to be square pixels, but as AE automatically does this I see no point.

Still unsure over why my timeline is interlaced though (most of the footage will be 25p)? The 50i footage will be 25fps...


As far as I know, all Standard Definition is interlaced - whether it's NTSC or PAL. Adam Wilt's website has a lot of good explanations about the real basics of this sort of thing (for example).

So if you pick a PAL timeline, you are going to be working with interlaced.

50i means 50 fields per second. Each field gives you half a frame (scanning every second line). You put two consecutive fields together and you get one complete interlaced frame. So 50 fields (half frames) per second gives you 25 full frames per second.

Your 25p footage should still retain its progressive "look", even if interlaced (i.e. dragged into a PAL timeline), because the entire frame was taken in one unit of time.

Whereas a single frame from your 50i footage was taken in 2 different units of time (1/50th of a second apart). This is what gives you the "video look" as opposed to the progressive look which is more "filmic" (because with film the entire frame is also taken in one unit of time).

Sorry David, I understand the interlaced (2 fields per frame) but didn't realise the SD PAL timeline would be considered interlaced. I thought I read that the 25p on the HD100 was true progressive - I guess this relates only to the HDV 25p format.

So if you pick a PAL timeline, you are going to be working with interlaced.

Would the HDV 25p (PAL) native timeline be interlaced also?
I've learned something else today then!

The footage I'm editing now (the mixed 50i/25p) is actually turning out ok, thankfully...wasn't the best of days mind, an overcast sky not particularly selling a place well!
Cheers.

Sorry David, I understand the interlaced (2 fields per frame) but didn't realise the SD PAL timeline would be considered interlaced. I thought I read that the 25p on the HD100 was true progressive - I guess this relates only to the HDV 25p format.



Would the HDV 25p (PAL) native timeline be interlaced also?
I've learned something else today then!

The footage I'm editing now (the mixed 50i/25p) is actually turning out ok, thankfully...wasn't the best of days mind, an overcast sky not particularly selling a place well!
Cheers.

The HD100 does shoot true progressive. All 720 lines are captured simultaneously. They are then recorded to tape with odd and even lines on separate fields. In interlace recording the fields are captured separately.

The timeline in FCP doesn't care if you shot interlace or progressive. It just displays one set of fields after another and if you've shot progressive then they'll look, well, progressive.

It really only becomes an issue when you export, particularly with speed changes and captions. You really should export a reference movie and whack that into Mpeg Streamclip for export or reimport it and drop it on a new timeline with a better codec. Don't get too hung up on it, as it can all be sorted with a bit of trial and error when you come to export.

The HD100 does shoot true progressive. All 720 lines are captured simultaneously. They are then recorded to tape with odd and even lines on separate fields. In interlace recording the fields are captured separately.

The timeline in FCP doesn't care if you shot interlace or progressive. It just displays one set of fields after another and if you've shot progressive then they'll look, well, progressive.

It really only becomes an issue when you export, particularly with speed changes and captions. You really should export a reference movie and whack that into Mpeg Streamclip for export or reimport it and drop it on a new timeline with a better codec. Don't get too hung up on it, as it can all be sorted with a bit of trial and error when you come to export.


Thanks Liam. Understand the timeline bit now!
Thankfully I'm only presenting this as raw footage, so no fancy editing/effects/speed changes etc. I intended to I and O the clips one at a time then Export as a self contained movie/movies (keeping the same settings as in capture etc).

I'd like to read up more on the progressive/interlaced issues when exporting...
Unfortunately I don't have the time to play with the exports at the moment (this has to be in tomorrow morning...and as of 1am it's still not complete!), but I'd like to try the Mpeg Streamclip method...though not sure how/which codec I could use to reimport into a new timeline...
Thank you both for your help this evening - I've learned a heck of a lot and got through this without panicing!
I feel as though I'm looking up at a mountain sometimes...slowly getting there!
Regards.

Would the HDV 25p (PAL) native timeline be interlaced also?


HDV 25p is not PAL. It has nothing to do with PAL, really. Perhaps this will help clarify it a bit.

PAL TV is 576i at 25 frames per second.

High Definition TV will play both 1080i and 720p (and I think probably 1080p). I believe some US networks broadcast in 1080i and some broadcast in 720p.
The frame rates for HD TV depend mainly on the frequency of the electricity supply for that area. So in the UK and Australia, where the frequency is 50 Hertz, HD TV is 25 frames per second (because 1080i requires 50 fields per second when recording). And in the USA, where the power supply is at 60 Hz, they have 30 frames per second. Or rather, the USA SHOULD have 30 fps for HD TV. Yet they have adopted the bizarre legacy of their NTSC frame rate, which is 29.97 fps.

I guess they did that to make it easy to downconvert HD footage for showing on NTSC (SD) TV.

So the thing in common between 720p25 and PAL is a frame rate of 25 fps. But they really are distinctly separate things.

I apologize if I've gone over things that you already know well, but I think it's an extremely important point to get clear in your own mind, and I'd rather err on the side of over-clarifying.

... then Export as a self contained movie/movies (keeping the same settings as in capture etc).

It's great to hear that your project is progressing well. Although I'm not sure why you'd want to use MPEG Streamclip so late in your workflow. If you are intending to export with the same settings as you captured with (DV PAL), then you should simply export. No side trips to other applications should be needed.

The main use for MPEG Streamclip with footage from your camera (JVC GY-HD100 series) would be at the BEGINNING of your workflow. To convert your .m2t files from the camera (when shooting HDV 720p25) into Quicktime movies (using the codec of your choice) which can then be imported into FCP. Once you are in FCP you should have no further need for MPEG Streamclip (unless I am missing something). FCP and Compressor should be able to handle any other conversions from that point onwards.

HDV 25p is not PAL. It has nothing to do with PAL, really. Perhaps this will help clarify it a bit.

PAL TV is 576i at 25 frames per second.

High Definition TV will play both 1080i and 720p (and I think probably 1080p). I believe some US networks broadcast in 1080i and some broadcast in 720p.
The frame rates for HD TV depend mainly on the frequency of the electricity supply for that area. So in the UK and Australia, where the frequency is 50 Hertz, HD TV is 25 frames per second (because 1080i requires 50 fields per second when recording). And in the USA, where the power supply is at 60 Hz, they have 30 frames per second. Or rather, the USA SHOULD have 30 fps for HD TV. Yet they have adopted the bizarre legacy of their NTSC frame rate, which is 29.97 fps.

I guess they did that to make it easy to downconvert HD footage for showing on NTSC (SD) TV.

So the thing in common between 720p25 and PAL is a frame rate of 25 fps. But they really are distinctly separate things.

I apologize if I've gone over things that you already know well, but I think it's an extremely important point to get clear in your own mind, and I'd rather err on the side of over-clarifying.

David, I just assumed that a broadcast rate would be referred to as PAL (as long as the rate is divisible by 50 as you referred to) in the uk irrespective the number of lines - so this is news to me! I understand this now. As the majority of TV's sold now are HDTV (and most likely progressive - LCD's and Plasma) then I guess 'PAL' will eventually be on it's way out...I believe the European TV standards are pushing towards progressive (720p possibly?).

It's great to hear that your project is progressing well. Although I'm not sure why you'd want to use MPEG Streamclip so late in your workflow. If you are intending to export with the same settings as you captured with (DV PAL), then you should simply export. No side trips to other applications should be needed.

The main use for MPEG Streamclip with footage from your camera (JVC GY-HD100 series) would be at the BEGINNING of your workflow. To convert your .m2t files from the camera (when shooting HDV 720p25) into Quicktime movies (using the codec of your choice) which can then be imported into FCP. Once you are in FCP you should have no further need for MPEG Streamclip (unless I am missing something). FCP and Compressor should be able to handle any other conversions from that point onwards

Not sure David...I may have misread Liam's earlier post.
The HDV workflow you suggested in the past, is something I'm very aware of - I'd actually printed it off in readiment for HDV fun! I'm hoping that I can get round it with Apple behaving correctly (I may need to check my camera's firmware also) but I don't hold out much hope.
Did you mention a preferred codec when converting .mT2 files into quicktime?
Appreciate all this help fella.
Cheers.

It's great to hear that your project is progressing well. Although I'm not sure why you'd want to use MPEG Streamclip so late in your workflow. If you are intending to export with the same settings as you captured with (DV PAL), then you should simply export. No side trips to other applications should be needed.

The main use for MPEG Streamclip with footage from your camera (JVC GY-HD100 series) would be at the BEGINNING of your workflow. To convert your .m2t files from the camera (when shooting HDV 720p25) into Quicktime movies (using the codec of your choice) which can then be imported into FCP. Once you are in FCP you should have no further need for MPEG Streamclip (unless I am missing something). FCP and Compressor should be able to handle any other conversions from that point onwards.

David,
You're absolutely right with everything you've advised David S. The reason I suggested using MPeg Streamclip for export is because he is mixing interlace and progressive footage on the same timeline and he may get motion artefacts on export - if he wanted to make it all progressive then the controls in MPeg Streamclip are easy to follow. Also, DVPAL isn't the best codec for export, not least because of the compression - that's why apple introduced AIC. I probably muddied the water though.

FYI, in the UK our HDTV is 1080i/25 and 720p/50.

Cheers,

Liam.

There is only a little interlaced footage within the timeline, and I'd probably cut them up as seperate clip exports anyhow (which is what the client wants).
I'm not that keen on 50i but occasionally use it for the fast pans and zooms used in promo's/adverts (saying that, you can probably get away with that with progressive once you've learned the techniques...).
However, it's entirely possible that I'll be mixing interlaced and progressive in the future (certain programmes/documentaries mix the two on a regular basis) so it's good to know I can used Mpeg streamclip for this - would I export the timeline to Mpeg S**....I haven't as yet used Mep streamclip so little unsure how I could carry this out.

Liam - DVPAL may be my only option for export - AIC seems to miss out SD 25p and 720p for that matter...again it's entirely possible I may have misread what you advised though!!

Many thanks.

Just a follow up on this;
The .mov files when viewed on Quicktime Player aren't quite the same as when viewed on an 'external' final cur pro viewer even when viewing the compressed file from a burned disk??
Not sure if you would call them 'artefacts' as such but there seems to be the odd bit of diagonal edging??
I'll try and add a jpeg of a frame to show this but you're probably already aware of this?
Thanks.

Just a follow up on this;
The .mov files when viewed on Quicktime Player aren't quite the same as when viewed on an 'external' final cur pro viewer even when viewing the compressed file from a burned disk??
Not sure if you would call them 'artefacts' as such but there seems to be the odd bit of diagonal edging??
I'll try and add a jpeg of a frame to show this but you're probably already aware of this?
Thanks.
That's why I suggested washing them through Mpeg Streamclip.

The .mov files when viewed on Quicktime Player aren't quite the same as when viewed on an 'external' final cur pro viewer

Something to be aware of regarding Quicktime:

It might only show you a low resolution image when viewing a .mov file in the DV codec. But the actual .mov file will still be at full resolution. But Quicktime might not show it to you unless you tell it to.

To get Quicktime (Pro) to display it at full quality resolution:

1/ Press Apple (Command) J to bring up Movie Properties.
2/ Click "Video Track", then "Visual Settings".
3/ Check the "High Quality" box.
You should now see a markedly better image and you can save (Apple S) if you want it to always show you the High Quality version.

This might have nothing to do with the problem you described, but it's worth knowing this about Quicktime, or you could get needlessly freaked out at some point in the future.

Apoligies for not responding any sooner, I was otherwise engaged with my other 'Washed Out footage' thread!

David - have just tried your quicktime setup and the difference is pretty remarkable really...surprised you can't have this quality when you originally export this from FCP?? Can this be set at default? I will go through all these quicktime files and reset them to this high quality setting before I burn any more.

Liam - I have Mpeg streamclip and have attempted to either open a file in FCP from there or export to there from FCP...not having much luck at the moment however. I think I need to read up a little more on that - not entirely sure what workflow I would use to 'wash' the footage via MPEG streamclip.
Really appreciate these tips fella's.

Apoligies for not responding any sooner, I was otherwise engaged with my other 'Washed Out footage' thread!

David - have just tried your quicktime setup and the difference is pretty remarkable really...surprised you can't have this quality when you originally export this from FCP?? Can this be set at default? I will go through all these quicktime files and reset them to this high quality setting before I burn any more.

Liam - I have Mpeg streamclip and have attempted to either open a file in FCP from there or export to there from FCP...not having much luck at the moment however. I think I need to read up a little more on that - not entirely sure what workflow I would use to 'wash' the footage via MPEG streamclip.
Really appreciate these tips fella's.

Follow David K's advice, he's spot on. Having reread the thread more carefully I got my wires crossed with an issue I had on a job last month.

ok, no problem Liam. Thanks anyway mate.

Following on from Movie Porperties, I'm playing around with other settings whilst in Quicktime and noticed the following:

When I export (theoretically) the quicktime movie (which I have already exported from FCP) recorded in 25p 4:3 format, the movie settings show this set up:

Compression: DV - PAL
Quality: Medium
Scan Mode: Interlaced (unless this relates to the original timeline in fcp being interlaced, then should I export as progressive - shot in 25p)
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (I recorded this in 4:3...why would it default to exporting as 16:9)
Dimensions: 768x576 (I guess Quicktime automatically shifts this to the square pixel set up).

Would this type off exporting be for the web (hence the square pixels etc)?
I may be 'bleeding' into another subject here so apologies for that and just ignore.

Apoligies for not responding any sooner, I was otherwise engaged with my other 'Washed Out footage' thread!
Yes, I was originally going to chip in about white balance and polarizers, but Tim Dashwood and so many others had already responded so brilliantly that there was no need. It makes me realize what a wonderful community DVInfo.net really is. There are so many people willing to bend over backwards to help the other person out. This is quite vital for we are all early adopters of new technology and therefore "pioneers". By sticking together and pooling knowledge about techniques and solutions to problems with the gear and their workflows, we can all move forward together. The true pioneer spirit! Anyway, back to the topic:


David - have just tried your quicktime setup and the difference is pretty remarkable really...surprised you can't have this quality when you originally export this from FCP?? Can this be set at default?

That's a very good question. On those fairly rare occasions when I work with DV, I'm exporting straight to DVD anyway, so I've never bothered working out a default.

But a quick look through the Quicktime Pro preferences reveals a possible default solution.

1/ On the Menu Bar select Quicktime Player > Preferences ...
2/ On the window which appears, select the General tab.
3/ Under the Movies heading, check the box "Use high-quality video setting when available".
4/ To test it, export a new Quicktime movie (in DV) from FCP and open it in the Quicktime player (and let us know if it works!).

Also, remember what I said at the start of this thread. Exporting in the DVCPRO50 (DV50) codec (rather than DV) can also give you a better quality Quicktime movie (although at larger file sizes).

Also, remember what I said at the start of this thread. Exporting in the DVCPRO50 (DV50) codec (rather than DV) can also give you a better quality Quicktime movie (although at larger file sizes).
That's where I went wrong, got my inverted field dominance mixed up with my interframe motion sampling. DOH!

Yes, I was originally going to chip in about white balance and polarizers, but Tim Dashwood and so many others had already responded so brilliantly that there was no need. It makes me realize what a wonderful community DVInfo.net really is. There are so many people willing to bend over backwards to help the other person out. This is quite vital for we are all early adopters of new technology and therefore "pioneers". By sticking together and pooling knowledge about techniques and solutions to problems with the gear and their workflows, we can all move forward together. The true pioneer spirit! Anyway, back to the topic:/QUOTE]

Indeed David...the past few days have been a royal blessing...I sometimes get a little down and think is it worth all the stress (especially seeing that footage the other day), but step ups from you folks can turn it all back round. Hopefully one day I can return the favour to others.

[QUOTE]That's a very good question. On those fairly rare occasions when I work with DV, I'm exporting straight to DVD anyway, so I've never bothered working out a default.

But a quick look through the Quicktime Pro preferences reveals a possible default solution.

1/ On the Menu Bar select Quicktime Player > Preferences ...
2/ On the window which appears, select the General tab.
3/ Under the Movies heading, check the box "Use high-quality video setting when available".
4/ To test it, export a new Quicktime movie (in DV) from FCP and open it in the Quicktime player (and let us know if it works!).

Also, remember what I said at the start of this thread. Exporting in the DVCPRO50 (DV50) codec (rather than DV) can also give you a better quality Quicktime movie (although at larger file sizes).

Yes - noted that this wasn't checked. Would the 'burned' copies of the original files be set at the rate I burned them at or could I from there (say on the client's quicktime) set the higher setting...it looked as rum on his as mine the other day :(
i'm going to try and colour correct the WB on the FCP files (as per Liam's suggestion...still unsure which colour I should be picking with the dropper mind?!?!) then reburn at the higher settings...possibly a fair bit of footage can be salvaged this way. However, with the ND (Polariser....which I'm just about to order - thanks David) and WB set correctly as well as a 'spring clean' on the back focus I should be far happier with the results.

As well as exporting with the DVCPRO50 codec could I use that as the easy set up for all my SD work (mainly 25p)?
I've got several tests to do over the next few days, one of them is the DVC workflow - I'll be sure to let you know how I suceed/fail!
...then soon....HDV awaits... :)

i'm going to try and colour correct the WB on the FCP files (as per Liam's suggestion...still unsure which colour I should be picking with the dropper mind?!?!)

There is a free tutorial that will walk you through the dropper process step-by-step for footage taken with an incorrect white balance. Go to this page:

http://www.rippletraining.com/free_tutorials_final_cut_pro.html

and select the free movie called "Chip Chart". The example they give is for footage which is too blue! They'll show you how to fix it. I already have their training DVD-ROMs on Colour Correction and on DVD Studio Pro. (And next week I'll be buying their DVD-ROMs on "Getting Started with Motion" and "The Art of Encoding using Compressor". I find their tutorials to be brilliant. Purely my personal opinion though.)


Yes - noted that this wasn't checked. Would the 'burned' copies of the original files be set at the rate I burned them at or could I from there (say on the client's quicktime) set the higher setting...it looked as rum on his as mine the other day :(

If your client has Quicktime Pro then, yes, you should be able to fix it on his computer. If he doesn't, I'm not sure. I guess newly burning High Quality ones might then be the best option.


As well as exporting with the DVCPRO50 codec could I use that as the easy set up for all my SD work (mainly 25p)?

Definitely try it. It might turn out that FCP will only capture (in DVCPRO50 set-up) footage from Panasonic cameras. If that turns out to be the case, do Easy Set-up for DV PAL, capture all the footage then change Easy Setup to DV50 PAL, create a new sequence and only work and export in DV50 from there.

There is a free tutorial that will walk you through the dropper process step-by-step for footage taken with an incorrect white balance. Go to this page:

http://www.rippletraining.com/free_t...l_cut_pro.html

and select the free movie called "Chip Chart". The example they give is for footage which is too blue! They'll show you how to fix it. I already have their training DVD-ROMs on Colour Correction and on DVD Studio Pro. (And next week I'll be buying their DVD-ROMs on "Getting Started with Motion" and "The Art of Encoding using Compressor". I find their tutorials to be brilliant. Purely my personal opinion though.)

Brilliant. I'm in FCP with the dropper in hand/mouse. Proper guide through would help.
Gonna look into those DVD roms straight away - the DVD guide you get shipped with FCP pro has been fantastic in getting me into the 'groove', unfortunately it ditches you at the alter just when it starts to get interesting i.e. it doesn't go deep enough, which when you first starting out doesn't need to.
Cheers.

Would you believe it!! The Clip Chart is the one not working for me! The rest (at least the few I've checked open fine) :(
Sod's law!
Is it working for you?

Would you believe it!! The Clip Chart is the one not working for me! The rest (at least the few I've checked open fine) :(
Sod's law!
Is it working for you?

If you're not getting the movie at all, try this direct link:

http://www.rippletraining.com/movies/Free%20Downloads/030129081347.mov

But remember that this particular movie is more like a slideshow with audio. You have to click the little button on the bottom right to begin and then click it each time you hear a beep.

I'm not sure if there's a glitch in the server, but I'm not getting any sign that the post I just made got through successfully, so I'll repeat it again and pass on apologies if this turns out to be a double post.

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Would you believe it!! The Clip Chart is the one not working for me! The rest (at least the few I've checked open fine) :(
Sod's law!
Is it working for you?

If you're not getting the movie at all, try this direct link:

http://www.rippletraining.com/movies/Free%20Downloads/030129081347.mov

But remember that this particular movie is more like a slideshow with audio. You have to click the little button on the bottom right to begin and then click it each time you hear a beep.

I'm just not getting anything on this one :(
The others all play fine, this one takes me to a quicktime play bar which plays 'nothing' for about 5 seconds before stopping....

Ghost in the machine here David!

I'm just not getting anything on this one :(
The others all play fine, this one takes me to a quicktime play bar which plays 'nothing' for about 5 seconds before stopping....

Ghost in the machine here David!

Hmmm. Maybe it's something in your Quicktime settings or preferences (?).

It really is a simple and wonderful tutorial. But just to bypass Quicktime for now (as you have a corporate deadline coming up) here's a link to an article by Larry Jordan which is pretty darn good (and he mentions Andrew Balis in the article. Andrew did the Ripple Training DVD-ROM on colour correction that I told you about earlier).

http://www.larryjordan.biz/articles/lj_color.html

Cheers for that David (not sure why that link didn't work mind).
Meanwhile, I played around with the 3 way colour corrector eye dropper (with a little help from the Ken Stone tutorials online) - pretty darned good! Brought a much more natural colourisation back into the scene. Not sure whether I should've used all three droppers i.e. blacks, mids and whites or just the mids...but it's made a difference. Might struggle in pulling the blown out clouds back into reign though (poss a little more advanced FCP tweaking).
With your Quicktime Higher Settings check tip (and Liam's eye dropper suggestion) this footage is already looking 50% better than it did a few days ago...possible to resuce some from this now...of course, with the intense 24 hour WB training (and formatt pol) this shouldn't happen again!
Unfortunately, I intended to go out shooting today but the weather has been terrible...not sure this would 'sell' anything to anybody...hopefully the clouds and rain will disperse tomorrow...

Interesting...just started the article and opened up the colour correction arrangement. On the scopes (and this is pre and post WB colour correction), the Green and Blue on the RGB parade have hit the roof (110%); the waveform monitor shows the White over 100%; and the Histogram shows a huge peak at 106%. Although the WB is a lot more natural now, I presume the blown out sky is knocking the colours right out of the scopes (therefore unbroadcastable?)

Also, remember what I said at the start of this thread. Exporting in the DVCPRO50 (DV50) codec (rather than DV) can also give you a better quality Quicktime movie (although at larger file sizes)

Hi David,

I've been testing saving to quicktime using:
*same settings as capture (PAL 48khz)
*DVCPRO 48Khz
*DV50 PAL 48Khz

I've blown them all up in quicktime but I'm really struggling to notice any difference whether it be hues or fine detail. Actually, the DVCPRO50 is the same file size as the PAL 48Khz...the DV50 Pal is actually twice the file size??
If the quality difference was obvious enough I'd save them in the larger file size, but I can't see that it is. I'll try and post jpegs see if anyone can notice any change...

Hi David.

My use of DV50 PAL was about 18 months ago in a very early HDV workflow. I think I might have converted the .m2t files into 720p25 DVCPRO HD Quicktimes and then dragged them into a DV50 PAL sequence. I think I also tried it with a DV PAL sequence and found the DV50 sequence was markedly better.

But this was downconverting from 720p25. DV50 PAL seemed to retain more of the higher quality image.

But it sounds from your experience that if you shoot and capture in DV PAL, then converting to DV50 PAL makes no difference. Which, now that I think about it, makes sense.

Anyway, it was worth a try.

P.S. I reckon you should take the plunge. Start shooting 720p25. Purely my opinion. But it will make all of the signage you shoot look a lot sharper (I noticed your other thread). Good luck.

^^ David...I'm going to - when I've completed this current job I'll explain that next time I can get the footage even better.
Slight concerns about the workflow (but like most things only make sense when you start trying them out). Also little worried that my HD100 didn't have the 'A' upgrade, though at the time of buying I was told there was some software upgrade on these models, might've been carried out in Germany (wasn't clarified as to what exactly that was...the camera's came in around October last year).

I will also need a g-raid drive...I think I'll stump up for a 500gb (split 250gb each). Hopefully it will make things sharper all round David! Cheers.