The FedEx guy showed up at 9am this morning and delievered several boxes to me. One of the boxes was the HV20. I ripped open the box like a cheetah ripping open an impala fo lunch. :)

I inserted a tape and plugged the HV20 to my LCD TV.(a Sony 46XBR3) I had the HV20 sitting on the kitchen table and aimed it at a bowl of fruit and some other random stuff. The picture was absolutely amazing. It clearly was a LOT better than the Sony HC7 that I returned last week. My other camcorder is the Canon XH A1, so I was really amazed to see how good the picture was from this little HV20.

I picked it up and started to shoot the squirrels in my backyard. It's a very sunny day outside. When I zoomed into to squirrels, they are constantly in-focus, and then out-of-focus. It's different than the Sony HC7's auto-focus hunting I experienced. Witht the HC7, the auto-focus hunts for a bit, but eventually lock on the object. With the HV20, it just keep hunting forever... in and out, in and out... I turned back and tried inside my house. The problem is even worse when I aim it at the far end of the room and try to zoom in. I placed it on a tripod and it didn't help. The lens was clean(duh!) and the only solution I could come up with was setting it to manual focus. This is unacceaptable, as the only reason I got the HV20 was so I can bring it to Disneyworld next month with my grandchildren. (my XH A1 is obviously way too big for this purpose)

I took my old spare camcorder(nearly 7-year-old Sony) and it had better auto-focus... <sigh>

After an hour of this, I gave up. I have just packed up the HV20 and will drop it off at FedEx during lunch today... :(

Guess I'll have to wait a couple more week and see how the JVC GZ-HD7 works out.... :( Hope it makes it here in time for my trip.

According to the manual on Canon website, instant autofocus can be turned off. Did you try that? When instant AF is off, it's supposed to work like regular autofocus, that is, much slower...

It almost sounds like a defective camera. There is no way Canon would think that was acceptable the way she describes it.

I don't know...
This thread describes the same thing, and they had to disable autofocus.:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89539

I don't know...
This thread describes the same thing, and they had to disable autofocus.:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89539

(2) When zooming in autofocus mode, the camera gets out of focus
and then becomes sharp again continously.


Thanks!

I just read that thread and the problem is almost exactly what I experienced with my returned HV20. The problem only is worst when I'm zooming into(or out of) objects. If I don't zoom, the autofocus is just fine in either mode. :(

I took the HV20 to the local BestBuy and returned it during lunch. They
didn't even charge me the usual 15% because the geeky high school kid
in charge of the camcorder dept saw the same problem. The HV20 isn't
available at BestBuy stores yet, so they gave me a refund back to my
credit card.

Perhaps I should call BestBuy and tell them not to bother sending out
another HV20 for me to test? <sigh> this means I'll have to spend
at least 20 minutes calling BestBuy's India call center... <sigh>

Edit: I just noticed that the other thread's poster is from Germany...
I bought mine from BestBuy.com in the US. Yet both have the
same problem....

hmm this is quite worrying

Sounds like a component flaw or a manufacturing problem, not a conscious decision on Canon's part.

I know they cripple the high end consumer machines to keep pros buying the expensive stuff, but messing up the autofocus like this is a little extreme.

There are always some defective units or units that need recalibration and those usually make it to the forums because they are looking for answers for the problem. What we need to know is if this is the norm for all the cameras or just a defect for some. Can some people post if they dont have a problem with instant AF so we know what the situation is?

There are always some defective units or units that need recalibration and those usually make it to the forums because they are looking for answers for the problem. What we need to know is if this is the norm for all the cameras or just a defect for some. Can some people post if they dont have a problem with instant AF so we know what the situation is?

I got mine yesterday in Miami, Fl. the instant AF works as good as the HV-10 that I have, in fact it works as good even with the wide angle WD-H43 which in it self is a big hunk of glass in front of the lens. The only thing it interferes is with the mini light like the wide adapter for the HV-10. May be you were too hasty in your conclusions and should have gone thru the set-up procedure and the different menus. The manual focus with the wheel works like a charm too.

Luis

When I was in a mall one time trying out the top auto focus mode of the HV10 it seemed much better than my HC1 although the standard autofocus mode of the HV10 seemed about the same as the HC1. Usually the auto focus from Sony camcorders isn’t good at all and I had bad experiences using the Sony PD150, the Z1u and the HC1 when using auto focus. Lest just say it’s a very good thing that I’m an expert of using a focusing ring. It looks as if the auto focusing of newer Sony camcorders is much better.

Now would that make the HC7 a much better buy than the HV20? Who knows, but it’s really about what interest you more. If you plan on buying one of those deep color TV sets than you might as well choose the HC7. As for the HV20, it’s no secret that I can’t stand 24p but at least it’s very useful when shooting indoors because by using that mode and a shutter speed of 24, the low light capability should be incredible compared to using the 60i mode of either camcorder.

I have owned the Panasonic DV953 and used the 100a and I have never noticed the focusing being bad at all so if auto focusing is what conserns you the most then you should consider either the Panasonic SD1 or the DX1 if you’re on a budget or the much, much better AG-HSC1U. That particular camcorder may cost you 2 grand but it does come with a 40 gig hard drive storage unit and a professional warranty of 12 parts and labor.

The JVC HD7 is currently my favorite out of all of them because no matter how good or bad the auto focus is on this camcorder, it has one feature that the others lack and that’s obviously a focusing ring around the lens. It may seem extremely difficult at first and believe me when I started using it at the age of 16 for a high school TV station; I hated it and was always arguing with the director that since the camera had an auto focusing feature, I shouldn’t bother using the manual focusing ring. Few months later when I turned 17 I actually became very good at it.

There is always the NAB next month if you still don’t like any of the camcorders.





Like others are saying, Canon probably has some defective units so maybe its best to try another one just incase.

The JVC HD7 is currently my favorite out of all of them because no matter how good or bad the auto focus is on this camcorder, it has one feature that the others lack and that’s obviously a focusing ring around the lens.

Is the JVC HD7's manual focus ring a mechanical or electronic focus ring? :)

Thanks!

Is the JVC HD7's manual focus ring a mechanical or electronic focus ring? :)

Thanks!
That’s a very good question and sorry I don’t have the answer.



By the way, here is something I forgot to post earlier about the Panasonic AG-HSC1U:
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=109546&catGroupId=14571&surfModel=AG-HSC1U
“Fast, accurate Auto Focus with no hunting!”

I tested this camcorder at a pro video show and the auto focusing is very good.

I tested this camcorder at a pro video show and the auto focusing is very good.

Sounds to me like she jumped the gun considering what I'm reading on multiple forums. Either that or she ran into a defective camera.


Funny to bail on a camera that quickly without at least trying a replacement?

The JVC HD7's manual focus ring is an electronic servo-assisted actuator, just like the focus ring on any other small consumer camcorder.

What I don't get about this thread is that there was never any indication as to whether the "problem" was encountered using Instant AF or Normal AF, or what any of the other camera settings were...

What's even stranger about this thread is that the HV10 has the best autofocus of any camcorder I've ever used....bar none. So it's hard to believe that Canon sat down when designing the HV20 and said "let's see, how can we made this autofocus decidedly worse than the HV10?".

I guess I'll know tomorrow for sure when mine arrives.

I just had a thought. It's quite easy to accidently cover the instant autofocus window on the front of the camera. If you do, I'd bet you could get some weird things happening with the autofocus.

It's quite easy to accidently cover the instant autofocus window on the front of the camera.Very true for the HV10, and a good thing to point out... however this really is not as much of a problem on the HV20 due to its different ergonomics.

Maybe a quick way to disable Instant Autofocus would be to cover the sensor with your hand and then the camera may revert to normal autofocus - Just an idea

Bob

Very true for the HV10, and a good thing to point out... however this really is not as much of a problem on the HV20 due to its different ergonomics.

..and not much room for the hands. Great little camera, though it is a bit small, light to an extreme and doesn't bother trying to disguise itself as a pro cam, it looks like a consumer device. Really good value to picture, the 24p resolution holds up well via component, though my projector is 720p. The HV20 is a keeper.
Later, Alan

I got mine today. I have to report my initial impressions of image quality are simply stunning. This level of performance (and feature set) at this price point was simply un thinkable just a year ago. I've attached it to the Sony DSR-60 external HDV recorder and everything works like a charm (except remote trigger via the camera's button which I expected so the recording has to be started and stopped directly from the Sony HDR-60... no biggie). 24p image quality (aside some obvious less dynamic range and less than a fraction of manual image control possibilities) beats hands down my Panny HVX200. So far my two disappointments:

1) Yes, the autofocus does not stay locked during zooming. Whether this is purely an optical issue or electronically a lack of sync between continuously auto focus adjustment while zooming that possibly can be fixed via a firmware upgrade or not, I do not know, but, it does NOT look right to me at all.

2) Just like the HV10, the lack of a basic exposure compensation feature during autoexposure (+ or - one or two F/stops) is absolutely inadmissible... even the upcoming TX1 has it (!!!)... and no, I am not talking about the basic variable exposure lock button because the only holds an exposure value in place while, if you zoom in or out or pan enough for lighting condition to change enough, you'll get instantly an over or under exposed picture.

So, the bottom line so far... as a "consumer" grade HD camera that shoots 24p, this baby is a monumental leap forward and hands down, Canon has produced one of the most exciting cameras on the market. As to aspiring to play in the "prosumer" market, I am not convinced. The HV20 is the most exciting toy of this year so far, but in no way, though it delivers pro image quality, is it a pro or semi-pro tool. For the price you can't beat it and, if Canon keeps on its own footsteps of rapidly improving their products, if the next-gen HV30 or 40 or 50 has as many improvements as the HV20 got from its HV10 counterpart, we're in for a truly exciting product line down the road.

These autofocus reports are somewhat concerning. I'll know later today if my unit has the same issue. I have seen reports from people that claim theirs are fine and they don't have this issue.

The HV20... in no way, though it delivers pro image quality, is it a pro or semi-pro tool. I would say that this is a very accurate assessment. Canon has never positioned it as anything other than a consumer camcorder. Those who were hoping it would be more than that have had, in my opinion, some unrealistic expectations.

>>>>snip
2) Just like the HV10, the lack of a basic exposure compensation feature during autoexposure (+ or - one or two F/stops) is absolutely inadmissible... even the upcoming TX1 has it (!!!)... and no, I am not talking about the basic variable exposure lock button because the only holds an exposure value in place while, if you zoom in or out or pan enough for lighting condition to change enough, you'll get instantly an over or under exposed picture.
>>>>snip


Wow......wow.....wow: I'm really dissapointed to read this. :-(

Exposure comp is a VERY-VERY basic function and I can't imagine using a P&S camcorder without it. Very :-(

JohnG

Well let's hold on a minute. There ARE compensations in the custom menu for 'brightness' and 'contrast' overrides. These allow you to adjust from normal to +1 or -1. Now I'm not 100% sure what these adjustments actually control, but I can tell you they operate continuously and constantly 'dial in' your selection relative to what the camera thinks is nominal. Some long term HV10 users aren't even aware of this feature, but it's there.

But I'm always amazed that no matter what a manufacturer puts in a consumer cam, there are always comments that it should have included this or that. As Chris said, it IS a consumer camera that just happens to shoot pro-grade video.

As mentioned earlier, this is not a PRO camera! It is a consummer camera with a VERY VERY big and usefull side benifit-----it can be used as a deck for the other Canon HDV camcorders.

Sure, many will buy it to use as a personal HD camcorder and I'm sure they will love it!!! But, it will sell exceptionally well with all who have the higher level Canon HDV cameras for use as a deck and that's EXACTLY Canon's game plan and it's a winner!

I get a deck for use with my XLH1, I get a small lightweight camera that can easilly go anywhere with me, and I get a very acceptable second camera for most shoots I do.

So, if you do HDV weddings, you could get two b-cams to use in say a locked down position somewhere, (with or without an operator, and w/o focus worries), you hold your higher level HDV camcorder and have a three camera shoot for just over $2,000 in extra camera costs! What a deal!

How about a low budget music video? Same deal, b-footage from two additional cameras at little cost. Screw the focus and the sound!!!!

If you are thinking about this camera as your prime #1 pro camera, forget it! But, even with minor consummer camera type issues, this camera seems to have one hell of a great picture and that will suit me just fine.

As Chris said, let's be realistic here.

JM2cents----Mike

..it is in the setup, then it doesn't adjust instantly anymore. Since it is a consumer camera, it was setup by default in a few ways I changed, that was one of them and also I switched on the audio level, zebra and grid which were all nice of canon to include. Truly the best true 24fps 1080p consumer camera I have or could locate at any price. lol
Regards, Alan

Awesome!

Amateur filmmakers (like myself) will also eat up this camera. Great bang for the buck, nobody should expect more than that.

Mike

Well let's hold on a minute. There ARE compensations in the custom menu for 'brightness' and 'contrast' overrides. These allow you to adjust from normal to +1 or -1.

Some long term HV10 users aren't even aware of this feature, but it's there.

Can someone who owns a HV20 please confirm if it has some version of automatic exposure compensation.

It's a consumer camcorder and it should have this function.

Thanks
JohnG

John, I looked at the HV20 manual and it's exactly like the HV10. There is a 'Custom' picture menu that's accessible from the main menu and there you will find adjustments for color, sharpness, brightness and contrast. All of these will constantly dial in your preference relative to the camera's 'decision'.

To check it out, look at P.52 of the manual under the heading of "custom".

Well let's hold on a minute. There ARE compensations in the custom menu for 'brightness' and 'contrast' overrides. These allow you to adjust from normal to +1 or -1.Yes, the HV10 also has this feature but it is burried deep enough on the menu and sub-menus not to make it practical to use during shooting and, both the HV10 and HV20 tens to overexpose during auto operation and the tweaking range in the submenu is not enough to avoid white clipping in many circumstances.

John, I looked at the HV20 manual and it's exactly like the HV10. There is a 'Custom' picture menu that's accessible from the main menu and there you will find adjustments for color, sharpness, brightness and contrast. All of these will constantly dial in your preference relative to the camera's 'decision'.

To check it out, look at P.52 of the manual under the heading of "custom".

Ken

Much thanks for the follow-up comments.

Regards
JohnG

Yes, the HV10 also has this feature but it is burried deep enough on the menu and sub-menus not to make it practical to use during shooting and, both the HV10 and HV20 tens to overexpose during auto operation and the tweaking range in the submenu is not enough to avoid white clipping in many circumstances.

You can still adjust exposure on the spot to avoid clipping. I've found that an adjustment of -1 in brightness can avoid clipping in many instances. For a cam of this type I think it's got a very nice assortment of picture controls.

John, glad to help out.

Well guys, put me down in the column that has absolutely zero problems with the autofocus. It behaves precisely like the HV10, instantaneous and accurate!

I'm also finding color to be a bit warmer and a bit truer with the same level of detail. Low light is 100% better than the HV10. I did an A/B test with the HV10 in my dark bedroom (we're getting rain here in N.Y.) and the HV10 was showing those vertical lines that occur with inadequate light and a CMOS sensor. It also had some trouble with focus as it hunted. The HV20 was 2X as bright, no vertical lines and a FAR more usable picture. Yes, there was still some grain, but these were very dim conditions! Additionally, I'm finding the low light of the HV20 to be at least as good as my FX7.

These are preliminary results, but I couldn't be more pleased! Kudos to Canon....again!

Well guys, put me down in the column that has absolutely zero problems with the autofocus. It behaves precisely like the HV10, instantaneous and accurate!

I'm also finding color to be a bit warmer and a bit truer with the same level of detail. Low light is 100% better than the HV10. I did an A/B test with the HV10 in my dark bedroom (we're getting rain here in N.Y.) and the HV10 was showing those vertical lines that occur with inadequate light and a CMOS sensor. It also had some trouble with focus as it hunted. The HV20 was 2X as bright, no vertical lines and a FAR more usable picture. Yes, there was still some grain, but these were very dim conditions! Additionally, I'm finding the low light of the HV20 to be at least as good as my FX7.

These are preliminary results, but I couldn't be more pleased! Kudos to Canon....again!

Ken: for the lowlight test, did you have the shutter speed locked down on the cams to the same value, or was the camera in auto?

Well guys, put me down in the column that has absolutely zero problems with the autofocus. It behaves precisely like the HV10, instantaneous and accurate!

I'm also finding color to be a bit warmer and a bit truer with the same level of detail. Low light is 100% better than the HV10. I did an A/B test with the HV10 in my dark bedroom (we're getting rain here in N.Y.) and the HV10 was showing those vertical lines that occur with inadequate light and a CMOS sensor. It also had some trouble with focus as it hunted. The HV20 was 2X as bright, no vertical lines and a FAR more usable picture. Yes, there was still some grain, but these were very dim conditions! Additionally, I'm finding the low light of the HV20 to be at least as good as my FX7.

These are preliminary results, but I couldn't be more pleased! Kudos to Canon....again!

Ken

Sounds great!

Ordered!
JohnG

You can still adjust exposure on the spot to avoid clipping. I've found that an adjustment of -1 in brightness can avoid clipping in many instances. For a cam of this type I think it's got a very nice assortment of picture controls.

John, glad to help out.

I agree with Ken, the same was thru with the HV-10 when you adjust exposure on the fly the compensation is usually no more than -1 or -2 in brghtness to avoid clipping the whites on well lit bright sunny days the catch is that every time you change the scene you have to hit the exposure twice
one to measure the light of the new scene or clip and again to adjust it using the zebra pattern, I use 70% and I'm in the very good range for brightness.

Just watch a documentary on any HD channel on your TV see how many times you can see blown highlights......The answer is MANY!!!!

AGAIN, no hunting on the AIF in my unit, wide angle converter or built in lens during zoom or zooming, on tripod or without tripod, it behaves exactly like the HV-10, fast and accurate.

Be realistic.... for Christ sake this thing even has a spot meter and wide angle coverage in Photo mode for those times when you need precise exposure on your Jpegs.

Thanks,
Luis

Met the UPS man at the street, because I was watching out the window----quickly opened up the box----waited and waited for the battery to charge----ran a cleaning tape thru it----stuck in a new tape----shot 30 seconds of video----hooked it up to my 50" Sony HDTV!!!!!!!!

"WOW" what a picture and what a cool little camera!

Now it's time to sit and read the manual......... :)

What audio inputs does this cam take?

I'm starting to think that the title of this thread needs to be changed...

"Returning HV20 after 1 hour due to bad autofocus design" just seems wrong.

Mike

It’s very good that people are reporting that the auto focus is as good as the HV10’s because it would have been a shame if it wasn’t. At least we can all calm down now.

What audio inputs does this cam take?

Has mini jack input on the side and a hotshoe mount on the top for the Canon DM-50 shotgun/stereo mic. I understand that the shoe does not work with the MA-300. Too bad, I have one of those too.

Mike

Just got my HV20 today from FedEX.

Wow-- It's nice and small! Just like the Optura's 30/40s.

I quickly shot some footage and played it on my 30" tube. Really nice. Lots of detail. [Watching it on a LCD computer monitor is just not the same.]

I have a PDX10, and the beautiful footage I get out of that camera, and deinterlaced with DVFilm will give me footage that is very similar to the 24p HD mode on the HV20.

Am I disappointed? Nope. This is pretty kick ass cam. And I don't have to process the footage with DVFilmmaker.

I'm not a big fan of the LCD, it is a bit small...and it doesn't close with authority like my PDX10.[which has a magnesium body]

The 24p mode still doesn't look like "film"...but it is a very pleasing image for storytelling.

But damn, the picture quality is as good as the 3 chip PDX10.[which cost $1,600!]

I will have to shoot more stuff to play around with--but so far, I'm very pleased.

Ken: for the lowlight test, did you have the shutter speed locked down on the cams to the same value, or was the camera in auto?


Dave, both (actually all 3) were in auto, but both Canons had their slow shutter speed locked out. So shutter speeds were probably all 1/60.

I have a PDX10, and the beautiful footage I get out of that camera, and deinterlaced with DVFilm will give me footage that is very similar to the 24p HD mode on the HV20.

Am I disappointed? Nope. This is pretty kick ass cam. And I don't have to process the footage with DVFilmmaker.
I'm pleased to hear this; I sold my PDX10 package last week and immediately flipped the cash in my Paypal account to B&H for the HV20. Not having to process the footage for 24P... priceless!

Hello.

I just received the hv20 today from B&H.

I personally do not see any problems with the auto focus on this particular camera.

The only side effect this camera has produced so far is this repetitive voice inside my head that keeps saying "WOW!" over and over again.

This is one sweet camera!

If you are thinking about this camera as your prime #1 pro camera, forget it!Oh yeah? Watch me! ;)
Seriously though, I don't think it will be suited for payed work since your clients will freak out when they see this little camera. But I strongly believe that you can make good looking amateur movies with it. It's not useless in that matter since it has 24p, cine gamma and a mic input. I bet you can even sell those movies as long as the clients don't see the camera, just the images it produces.

Oh yeah? Watch me! ;)

Hey Ron,

Go for it man! :)

Oh yeah? Watch me! ;)
Seriously though, I don't think it will be suited for payed work since your clients will freak out when they see this little camera. But I strongly believe that you can make good looking amateur movies with it. It's not useless in that matter since it has 24p, cine gamma and a mic input. I bet you can even sell those movies as long as the clients don't see the camera, just the images it produces.

Ron,

Second thought, maybe we can make a large housing for it that looks like a big pro camera, or gut an old bulky big camera and stick the HV20 inside!!!

The clients would never know!!! :)

Mike

I have a PDX10, and the beautiful footage I get out of that camera, and deinterlaced with DVFilm will give me footage that is very similar to the 24p HD mode on the HV20.

Am I disappointed? Nope. This is pretty kick ass cam. And I don't have to process the footage with DVFilmmaker.




John, the one thing that confuses me is why you would say that HD footage looks 'very similar' to SD footage. Any footage I've shot with any of the HDV cams I've owned, blows away the best SD cams I've owned. I currently have the VX2000, have used the VX2100 and still have an older TRV900. None of these can even come close to the footage of the HV20 let alone any of the other HDV cams I've owned. The resolution is so much higher with the HDV cams and it certainly shows in the much greater detail that is visible.

Oh yeah? Watch me! ;)
Seriously though, I don't think it will be suited for payed work since your clients will freak out when they see this little camera. But I strongly believe that you can make good looking amateur movies with it. It's not useless in that matter since it has 24p, cine gamma and a mic input. I bet you can even sell those movies as long as the clients don't see the camera, just the images it produces.LOL! That's exactly what I plan on doing.

Once I get a few movies under my belt with it I'm sure the actors will no longer mind its size after they see the image it can produce. :)

John, the one thing that confuses me is why you would say that HD footage looks 'very similar' to SD footage. Any footage I've shot with any of the HDV cams I've owned, blows away the best SD cams I've owned. I currently have the VX2000, have used the VX2100 and still have an older TRV900. None of these can even come close to the footage of the HV20 let alone any of the other HDV cams I've owned. The resolution is so much higher with the HDV cams and it certainly shows in the much greater detail that is visible.


I guess I better clarify my statement... Shooting indoor stuff, faces and things..there is more than enough resolution on the PDX-10 and its wonderful widescreen mode.

Of course, I'm only looking at the footage on a 30" CRT HDTV.

What will really make the HDV shine is going to be wide shots[like a city skyline for example]--where the limited resolution of SD shows it's limitations.

I guess the best way to describe it is the difference between 1080i Football games on CBS and 720p games on Fox.

Closeups look great on both channels and formats.. but during the wide shots of the whole field.. you can see that 720p doesn't have enough resolution to show each individual player as --it is not as crisp as 1080i. [Of course nothing I've said is anything new for the professionals on this board.... ]

I will definitely take the HV20 out today and do a shakedown with it.