Just shot a Commerical for Dodge with a Dvx100...Let me know what you think.

http://www.dodge.com/srt-4/index.html?context=homepage&type=top

Marc

I like your camera work, and the footage you shot. Very stylish, very Fast and the Furious. However...


STREET RACING IS ILLEGAL AND DEADLY. IT IS KILLING THE YOUTH OF NORTH AMERICA. IT SHOULD NOT BE GLORIFIED OR PROMOTED IN ANY WAY, EVER.

Shame on Dodge for letting you put this video on their website. That's just as disgusting as marketing cigarettes to kids, or making drinking and driving look cool.

I'm e-mailing a letter to Dodge complaining.

Oh, BTW, I'm not some stuck up parent. I race Corvettes as a hobby. Race tracks are for racing, streets aren't.

Marc, I'm hopeful that you'll take Dylan's reaction as two separate issues. He is commending you for your creative, artistic and technical skills, which is the most important thing. That he takes issue with the *message* should not be considered a slant towards you personally... he's stating his extreme disappointment in Dodge for that kind of marketing approach.

Here at DV Info, our primary purpose is to discuss craft and technique, and not the message per se, as the message is always a subjective issue that not every one will agree upon. Just look around here and you'll find some rather testy threads debating certain messages of particular filmmakers and marketing departments.

Again, it is the craft of digital video that is our primary focus, and Dylan has handed you quite a compliment. However I would have to agree with him that this particular marketing strategy does not serve the best interests, or more importantly, the safety of its target audience. Hope this helps,

Yes, it was very good. Decent feeling of speed while they were racing, good music for the medium. Nice lighting, although there were several shots that seemed a little dark.

I think I may have had some problems with my player because there were some weird blotchy colour patterns a few times during the video.

Have to say I laughed when the two cars were revving their motors. My lawnmower sounds more menacing.

However there is a serious problem in the message, but I think my point was made already.
Not your fault, though. Dodge has taken the stupidity cake here. Imagine if Smith and Wesson made a handgun that could fit in student's pencil cases and showed a video of kids looking cool taking guns to school. Although you and others may not think it, this is right up the same alley.

I went to that link, but in order to watch the video you had to provide your e-mail address, age and zip code. Forget it...

I aggree with you guys about the illegal street racing... I just wanted to know what you guys thought of the footage that came from the camera. I was very impressed with the performance of the DVX100. As a couple a months a go I was dying to download any footage shot on the camea. But I demoed the camera and loved it. So I bought two!

Some of the shots I aggree were dark and not lit well but that was only because of the client. But there will be a directors cut soon. i will let you guys know.

Marc

I thought it was very nice. What did you do for lighting and all of that..?

...and what kind of budget was it, if any, and who was driving the car doing all the fancy spin outs and stuff? :D

BTW - Of course I agree that illegal street racing isn't good, but it's just a commercial, and just turn on TV and you'll see many more worse things...

<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : I went to that link, but in order to watch the video you had to provide your e-mail address, age and zip code. Forget it... -->>>

I just made it up.

The Budget was about $20,000 and we used Kino's some HMI's and some colemen work light towers (about 4,000watts), to light the streets.

Marc

Have to say I laughed when the two cars were revving their motors. My lawnmower sounds more menacing.

Hahahahahhaha i have to agree there. I read the site and with it's '215' horse power i don't think that is much to boast about. I don't know about in the states, but our new HSV commodores, a car i am not even impressed with, is coming stock with 275kw's now, which i believe is around 400hp. But, blah lets get onto the real topic.

I watched the video, and while i found it enjoyable, i honestly can't see where $20,000 went??? Maybe insurance and renting the two cars?? Rights for the music???

I am not coming down at all on the artistic merit of it, but i just can't see exactly where all the money went?

Could elaberate on it a bit?

thanks,

Zac

I thought it was quite good overall. It was a bit slow in some scenes, I think it could have been shorter. The camera work was very good, and I saw no problem with the lighting. For some reason, it made me think about Wierd Science... Nice job!

$20,000...that's nothing to shoot a 5 minute spot. It should have been $20,000 per day. You have to pay the actors, the crew, kraft services, security, barricades, stunt drivers, make-up, insurance...permits alone can add up to $7000...and we haven't even bought the tape stock to shoot the stupid thing.
If you can do it for under $20k, give me a call!!!

Marc

Marc, subject matter aside...nice job. The only big complaint I have is the lighting in the living room scene...the overhead light just flattens everything. I'm biased, though...can't stand overhead lighting in houses either.

I'd be interested in hearing what type of car mounts you used. Also, how big was your crew?

I have to admit that when I was in high school I had Thunderbird with a 429 V8 and a speedometer that went up to 160...and I saw the needle lay flat a few times. Fortunately, I also had miles and miles of flat, straight, and empty highway to do the teenager thing. Not that that would've saved me if I'd had a blowout...it just meant I wouldn't have killed anyone else--except maybe a jackrabbit.

Just imagining racing on city streets where anything can happen gives me the heeby-jeebies.

It's funny you guys are dissing this car....it IS in fact the fastest car under $20000! If I didn't jump into financing my Protege5 I'd be driving an SRT-4. Seriously I saw one that had one with a boost controler, full exhaust, and drag slicks beat a Corvette at the track in the 1/4. He ran a low 13. Sick! Sure some of you may have cars faster, with 400hp or whatever but it sure as heck didn't cost $20,000us. The most bang for the buck you'll ever find!

About the video- it's awesome man! I really like how you captured the action of two moving cars- something I know isn't easy to do. As someone else said- very FastandtheFurious'ish. I agree the pacing was a bit slow in parts but overall was a nice short- though cliche. Kinda like a beer commercial- with hot girls etc. Anyway, $20,000 budget wow- at first glance I would think that would be absorbetant however you're probably right...all the things you don't see ON-camera add up too. And lighting- ugh I've been pricing some Lowel lighting kits...those things aren't cheap and they aren't even considered expensive kits in the general scheme of things. Well do you mind me asking HOW, exactly, did you get affilliated with Dodge in the first place?!

As for me I'm an aspiring event videographer. Me and a friend have 2 weddings under our belt and 3 more scheduled this season. We've also done shorts, and a full length documentary. Untill this week we've been working with an XL-1s and a GL-1 but ironicaly enough I'll be recieving my DVX100 today! That's why I'm home from work and able to post on this board so early!! I'm just a wee-bit concerned regarding the possible strobing when shooting in 24p. I know I get massive strobbing with Canon's "frame-mode" especially during pans, regardless of shutter, and speed of pan. Again great job- would love to see more of your work!

I disagree about 20K usd being nothing for a short. Geez El Mariachi and Undead are two movies made for half or less of that, and on film too, with higher production quality.

I believe people use money like a hose to make problems go away, and or escape being resourceful. I have produce 7-10 minute short movies with as much if not more production value for $200. I was only asking where the money was spent, because the actors appeared very amateurish, and a lot of visuals seemed a bit rushed in production.

For 20k USD, i could buy the camera, all the equipment i would need, secure the locations and actors have the better half of 10k left. But i have learned every way, to pull every favour, to secure any location, to get what i need done with the least compromise and most results.

I am not coming down on it, but you made me state my case even though i didn't want too.

I think you have a lot of talent, but a lot more time needs to be spent on storyboarding and scripting, and working out an editing ryhthm within the piece. I have seen ferris bueler/risky business/weird science/fast and furious, now i want to see your own work, and one thing you must learn is to work within your own boundries, because i feel a lot of money was poured into 1 element and not enough concentration was spent elsewhere. Now i know the focus was on the cars and it was the 'money shot' of the flick, but it is no excuse ever not to put 110% into everything else.

Anyways, I stated my case and you or anybody else is perfectly allowed to agree or disagree, this is what i love about an open public forum and this forum, because we can have adult dicussions about things.

I am not even going to get into car talk or the morals of the piece. BTW, the Holden HSV clubsport is around 20kUSD and comes standard with 225kw as the base model, and goes up to 275kw for higher end models. And i wouldn't touch them, the weirdest thing i have ever seem emerging lately is that if a car is fast it must be good, well those subaru wrx's are floating around the streets here wizzing past, but also falling appart, unconfortable, built with horrible quality and no resale value, but hey it's fast so much be good.

Give me an m3 anyday.

Zac

Geez Zac, what's your beef, guy? Bad hair day, or what? Give the guy a break!

No beef what so ever.

As i said, i liked the piece and found it very enjoyable. Again this was not an attack at him or his work, i was posting a reply to his post about how 20k is nothing.

I was only being honest, i am sorry if i offended anybody, but he posted the piece in here for comments, and i chimed in with mine.

Anyways,

Zac

I do aggree with a lot of you guys.... i did not like the living room scene...the editor and client wanted it that way. I did not have much of a say in how those things turned out. I also aggree about the pacing I thought it was a bit slow. My editor and I are cutting together a Directors cut that will be soon on our website.

About the money like I said it was a strech and we had about 4 days to shoot it. which may seem a lot but if you ever try to mount a camera on a car during an action scene you know that it takes a long time (about 45 min per set up). We always had 2 cameras going and with the car mounts, lights....etc, it was scary watching about $10,000 dollars being driven around on the hood of a car. Any way I enjoy all your posts....

Marc

I can sympothize with you. I know how the clients "Artistic vision" can often mess up a decent project. But, when they are footing the bill... God I hate selling out sometimes!

Right guys, I'm probably being really stupid, but I can't for the life of me find a link to a video on the dodge site posted earlier, help me out here....

John.

Hmm, it seems they updated the page...and it's not there anymore...

About doing it for $20K...I personally think thats a lot of cash for that, it seems somewhere around $1k or so budget would be more believable.....and I agree with Zac...

I have to agree with you guys about the street racing issue. Maybe it was different a couple of decades ago, when there were less cars and drivers on the roads, but it's always been rather dangerous in my generation (I'm 22).

Now the video itself-- different story and different mindset in watching it. I'd really love to see that!

I can't find it on Dodge's SRT-4 website. Does anyone know where it has gone?

Craig Weinstein

Marc,

Don't take my comment about the living room scene to mean I didn't admire your work overall. That's not the case. What type of car mounts did you use? And how big was your crew?

As for the subject matter...well...turn on the TV and click around and you're going to see a whole lot worse. For some reason, though..."big" productions seem to get away with it. "Fast and Furious" for example.

All this censorship that's going on, particularly in North America now...both by law and by strong vocal minority influence...is getting a bit scary if you ask me. I've been watching people smoke, drink alcohol, and kill people on the tube my whole life...and I don't smoke, I'm not an alcoholic, and I've never killed anyone. Not that I can recall anyway.

I realize you have to be more careful when teenagers are the main characters since teens are more impressionable than adults...but doesn't that mean that things such as extreme sports videos pose as great a threat? Some of the stunts kids pull off on those videos on bikes and skateboards can crack a head wide open or break a back...so where do we draw the line?

Let's be careful about jumping on people's choices of subject matter...because (1) true freedom requires you to allow someone else do something you oppose (as long as it's not illegal)... (2) because this is an international forum with members from other cultures that don't always think the same as the North American members... and (3) it's entertainment.

Otherwise, even Disney should be hauled in under the lights for its depiction of violence in some of the earlier works.

John, I agree with you for the most part, but there's a big difference between what you say, and using crime to advertise your product. I don't think street racing is taken as seriously in many places as it is Vancouver. It's almost an epidemic here. There has to be at least a couple major street racing fatalities a month here, usualy killing a carload or two of kids, and some innocent pedestrians.

It's actually gotten scary enough out here that *I* have stopped street racing. As a competant driver, I used to always be up for a good street race, until the last two years (coincidental to the release of Fast and the Furious?), when people have been getting killed on a weekly basis here. I believe there were three in the last two weeks, the worst being an accident involving 4 16 year olds in a Mustang and one 25 year old in a Firebird. All were killed except 1 I think.

Anyway, I'm off topic.

Dylan,

No problem...I know where you're coming from. I had an unusually high percentage of high school friends die in car accidents...so I can relate (out of the five in "my closeknit group" in high school, I was the only one still living by age 24).

But consider "American Grafitti"...same subject matter...yet it's considered a classic.

Sometimes things hit a bit too close to home...but you have to ask if it was REALLY the influence of media that caused what happened to happen. You might want to blame a commercial for the death of a friend who went out drag racing after seeing it...but then isn't that the same friend who was jumping off the roof using a sheet as a parachute at age seven, and the one who was shooting bottle rockets from his hand at friends at close range at age 12...etc, etc?

I grew up back when there wasn't so much media...and believe me...we still had enough imagination to come up with crazy stunts without seeing them first on TV or the movies. Consequently, we couldn't blame it on media...only on being a kid. So even if all media depicting drag racing was outlawed, if you put a teenager behind the wheel of a sports car...what do you think would happen?

Personally, I don't think teenagers should get sports cars. I worked my ass off and bought an old Mustang when I was 18, and then an old Trans-Am when I was 19. Fortunately, my mother was a driving instrutor and leaned me good about not getting myseld killed.

Regarding media influence, of course it's going to happen one way or the other. I just object to companies using illegal activities to market their product. "Hi, buy our stuff and you can be a criminal too, because breaking the law and killing innocent people is cool!"

Did anyone save the commercial? I would love to take a peek at it!

/Andy

Uhg, I went to the link, but what do you select to see the video. I checked out the flash stuff, no racing video there. sorry, feeling stupid right abot now.

<<<-- Originally posted by John Steele : Right guys, I'm probably being really stupid, but I can't for the life of me find a link to a video on the dodge site posted earlier, help me out here....

John. -->>>

Wow, your right- I saw it the other day and now it's gone. 1 of 2 things: either this post help cause their bandwith to get eaten up ooooor others were having the same negative reactions that some members had here. Ya know...the way it depicted somthing illegal to promote their product. I say what the heck- why not...everyone knows why they made the car lol

I saved it John, if you want I can send it to you if your mail server can handle the file size. What file size what it anyway- the bitrate looked extremely low on the clip so it shouldn't have been that bad.

Soon I will have a directors cut on my website. Probably in the next week....

Marc

About the budget, I think $20K USD is realistic, almost a bit low for a four-day crewed shoot. The question is never "can I do it for $1000" or how low can you do it for. It's always a question of results and what will the market bear. This is a major corporation he's dealing with... if he went to them and said, "I can do it for $1000," they'd laugh him out of the office. For a national or regional ad, or even if it's just for the web, from an automobile manufacturer, $20K for something like this a good deal.

They expect to have to pay a certain amount, and if you propose a bid that's substantially lower, then they won't take you seriously. However if you're charging a competitive rate and you can deliver top-quality work on time without going over budget, you'll get called back for more. Like Marc said, you figure in the crew, locations, security, craft services, clearances, the grip truck, etc. and you've eaten up a lot of cash. If you say, well, I can do it for a lot less but I need to jump through some hoops to get it done, then forget it... they want results fast, they want it turned around quickly without hassles or hang-ups or waiting for you to get all your ducks in a row... you just have to go out and hire all these elements and bring everything together quickly and professionally.

You can't compare El Mariachi for $7K because that was an anamoly, that was Rodriguez working outside of the envelope on his own time with guerilla methods. That approach doesn't apply in the corporate world of agencies and deadlines. Twenty grand for four days, that doesn't sound high to me at all, sounds right on the nose or even a little low for a Dodge commercial. It's not about what *you* would do it for, it's about what's normal for that market.

Yea, give us a new link soon, I want to see it myself.

I agree with John whole heartedly about kids being kids.
The rush of racing on the street is partially the danger aspect. If there was no cops and no danger, I feel it would get a bit boring. I'm not even a street racer either. Everything nowadays is blamed on media because someone is so STUPID to try and top a jackass stunt or Fast and Furious race. Are kids just dumb???

If I was to do something and get hurt or get someone else hurt I'd take the blame. People need to take responsibilty for their OWN actions.

If you see a movie with someone shooting heroine, are you going to run out and become a junky...??? It's just dumb. People do what makes them happy regardless of what it is. Car racing, drugs, sex, you name it. What's shown on TV or in theaters is mostly based on glorified truths anyhow. Murder happens. Racing happens. Drugs happen. Suicide happens. Everything happens.

The people who blame media are just clueless and stay clueless. Parents are important too.....tell your kids if you do this, you can die.... if he still chooses to do it, then he obviously cares more about doing whatever he's doing more than life at that moment. Even racing for a living, legally gets people killed.

I agree completely with Chris. Also don't forget that we are
talking DANGEROUS work here. Driving cars at high speeds and/or
stunting with them (I haven't seen the video since I was too
late and it got pulled off the website) takes a lot of money
for special stunt drivers, safety AND INSURANCE. Sure I can
shoot a illegal street race with my buddies and my camera but
what if someone smashes his car up? What is someone gets
hurt or dies?

Now if it was someone talking while sitting at a table the figures
would have been different I'm sure. But don't forget that this
is something completely different!

Rob, based on what I saw in the video, I don't think they broke the speed limit while shooting, although he did say there were $7000 in permits to be purchased.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Benkosky : Yea, give us a new link soon, I want to see it myself.

I agree with John whole heartedly about kids being kids.
The rush of racing on the street is partially the danger aspect. If there was no cops and no danger, I feel it would get a bit boring. I'm not even a street racer either. Everything nowadays is blamed on media because someone is so STUPID to try and top a jackass stunt or Fast and Furious race. Are kids just dumb??? -->>>

Yes kids are dumb. Since you have no real information about street racing, let me tell you, it's got nothing to do with danger. It's about bragging rights and the rush of speed. Mostly bragging rights.

<<<--
If I was to do something and get hurt or get someone else hurt I'd take the blame. People need to take responsibilty for their OWN actions.
-->>>

You'd take the blame if you hit someone while racing and killed them? What if you killed someones child, or someones father or mother? What does taking the blame do for the family of the person you murdered?

<<<--
If you see a movie with someone shooting heroine, are you going to run out and become a junky...??? It's just dumb. People do what makes them happy regardless of what it is. Car racing, drugs, sex, you name it. What's shown on TV or in theaters is mostly based on glorified truths anyhow. Murder happens. Racing happens. Drugs happen. Suicide happens. Everything happens.
-->>>

You are missing the point. Racing happens. When something like Fast and the Furious happens, street racing happens to a multiple of 10x. 10x the people racing means 10x the deaths. Get the point now? Kids (under 25?) are dumb and easily influenced as to what's cool, dangerous or not.

<<<--
The people who blame media are just clueless and stay clueless. -->>>

If you think the media doesn't affect peoples judgement, you should check out this really great video on purchasing swamp land in Florida....

Now don't get me wrong, I'm against censorship in the media. This whole arguement stems from the fact that Dodge promoted an illegal activity in advertising their product. I don't believe companies should promote crime to sell things.

And beach property used to be really cheap, look at it now...... 2 sides of the coin, always.

Nothing but your brain decides what you are going to do. Not TV/Movies/Magazines.

You make a choice and you must live with it whether or not it's good or bad.

And of course, most people are dumb. They will see Fast/Furious and go out, spend mommie and daddie's money and trick out a car and go kill themselves or someone else's kid. It's not a nice thing, but it happens.

People make up their mind on whether or not something gets done or not....it's really THAT simple. That kid that he/she hits in a race is unfortunately a side effect of that person's judgement. Just because he/she saw a racing commercial or movie doesn't mean he might not have done it anyways, maybe at a different time.

According to religious people, life has already happened, we just go thru the motions. The decisions we make have already been made.

So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising?

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? -->>>
(Satire)
I think we should go to war with Canada right after we topple Iraq...You Canadians are a menace to the film business and need to be dealt with...No one cares about your opinion until you stop living off our tax dollars and stop Vancouver and Toronto from Whoring out all our work...Now go away...And bring me a beer...Nice job on the commercial kid.

For what its worth, El Mariachi was not MADE for $7K- it was SHOT for $7K, it was MADE for $220,000 (after post production etc.). The whole $7K thing just makes for better marketing.

Nothing but your brain decides what you are going to do. Not TV/Movies/Magazines.

Nothing influences the brain. Whatever you are born with is what you have. Your lot in life is cast the moment your born.

That smacks of predestiny and taking no responsibility for your actions. After all nothing influences the mind and everything is preordained.

<<<-- Originally posted by Teo Coxman : <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? -->>>
(Satire)
I think we should go to war with Canada right after we topple Iraq...You Canadians are a menace to the film business and need to be dealt with...No one cares about your opinion until you stop living off our tax dollars and stop Vancouver and Toronto from Whoring out all our work...Now go away...And bring me a beer...Nice job on the commercial kid. -->>>

Don't make me get of the igloo, dust off the dog sled, and mush down there to give you the business end of my hockey stick over your shins.... You won't be able to drink the pain away... Not on American beer at least... :D

<<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : <<<-- Originally posted by Teo Coxman : <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper : So do you think it is right or wrong for Dodge to promote crime to kids in their advertising? -->>>
(Satire)
I think we should go to war with Canada right after we topple Iraq...You Canadians are a menace to the film business and need to be dealt with...No one cares about your opinion until you stop living off our tax dollars and stop Vancouver and Toronto from Whoring out all our work...Now go away...And bring me a beer...Nice job on the commercial kid. -->>>

Don't make me get of the igloo, dust off the dog sled, and mush down there to give you the business end of my hockey stick over your shins.... You won't be able to drink the pain away... Not on American beer at least... :D -->>>

he he...This guy's all right....

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : About the budget, I think $20K USD is realistic, almost a bit low for a four-day crewed shoot.... -->>>

Well said Chris!! I thought $20k was a pretty reasonable price for the client for a number of reason:

- Like Chris said, you may be able to do it if you call in all your favors and friends and cut corners and use free locations, etc. But that's not something you can do for every project you're hired for. You save those shoots for your own projects, not the client's. And don't say anything about working just as hard for a client - it's not about that. It's about charging a reasonable and fair rate that the client could expect to get again if they wanted to without them expecting you to call your mom to cook food for the crew.

- Have you ever rented a bank of HMI's? You still think you could do this for "under $200" or "under $1k"?

- Do you expect his time and effort to be unpaid? Notice he didn't say it cost HIM $20k - he said it cost the client $20k. I hope at least a few thousand of that went to him for his services...

<<<-- Originally posted by Adrian Seah : For what its worth, El Mariachi was not MADE for $7K- it was SHOT for $7K, it was MADE for $220,000 (after post production etc.). The whole $7K thing just makes for better marketing. -->>>

Adrian - that's not completely true. It was finished in it's entirety for $7k, just not on film. They spent the extra $100k's you're talking about to re-edit, sync, promote and distribute to theaters, but the entire finished, edited VIDEO was done for $7k (actually, I think it was about $6k). Of course, we're all going on Rodriguez's word for this, so who knows for sure...

Sorry, I thought the video looked too much like "video". Didn't really make good use of the DVX100. The lighting was pretty subpar also, especially the couch scenes.

Too bad I could never see it. :(

yeah, it would be nice if i knew what it looked like. :-/

http://modernartpictures.com/

; )

awesome, thanks for the link. now, lets see if it works....