Looking for a good suggestion. Two products I have seen are the Nebtec NEB50XL and the Varizoom VZTFT. The Nebtec is more expensive but presumably is a "brighter" monitor. Since it seems both monitors require hoods for outdoor shooting in any significant light, is the greater expense of the Nebtec justified?
Thanks in advance for any input.
-Phil

Yes, it is.

The Varizoom is a dim and rather coarse display. The Nebtec's are much better. If you can swing it, go for the 7" Panasonic that Nebtec sells. It's the best lcd I've seen and I routinely use it instead of a field crt production monitor. For the ultimate in convenience, regardless of the model you choose, be sure to have Nebtec install the 7.2v power conversion kit. It enables you to use your Canon BP-series batteries to power the monitor, rather than a/c or 12v power. Also be sure to get the shoe mount.

Nebtec is a good little company whose history comes from implementing video assists for the film industry.

Hey Ken, those little monitors look great. I like the fact you can power them with the Canon batteries.

Is it possible to use the monitor not mounted on the camera? I'm not sure how they work...can you get an extra long RCA cable so someone other than the cameraman can watch it closely from a distance?

Is it possible to use the monitor not mounted on the camera? I'm not sure how they work...can you get an extra long RCA cable so someone other than the cameraman can watch it closely from a distance?Sure, no problem. I actually bought my 7" Panasonic separately from B&H (before I knew that Nebtek sold them) as a kit that included a table-top stand, a Hoodman hood and carrying case, and various other power and cable accessories. The monitors can be located anywhere and only need a video cable for connection to the camera.

One caveat in the case of the Panasonic monitor. It uses a special connector which bundles its standard power and BNC video signal cables together. To extend that cable beyond the provided length you will need to devise an extension that can connect to that BNC adapter. It should not be too challenging. I'm certain that the folks at Nebtek would be able and happy to help you with this. They actually follow DVInfo and at least one of their technicians is a member here.

sounds good. I think I'll give them a call.

I have one more question for you...this may be a dumb question but...is it really not that big of a deal to not use a CRT monitor that can actually be calibrated (and has blue gun etc..)? Or, can these LCD screens be calibrated to what an NTSC monitor would look like? I have no idea how any of that works, I've only heard to get a true, accurate image, you have to get a real monitor. I've seen some for a thousand, and I'm just wondering why I shouldn't just spend the extra two hundred to get a real monitor I can calibrate properly? Total Noob here.

What I'm basically asking is, how accurate is the LCD on the 7inch compared to a real NTSC television or monitor?

If you're doing professional work (i.e. work for hire) it's essential to have an accurate color monitor somewhere in your process, most likely in your post-production studio where you'll need to do color correction. Such monitors are, indeed, expensive but they feature color-accurate phosphors and all of the various controls needed for reference accuracy.

During actual production, however, what you need most is a monitor that can give you an accurate view of your frame and a reasonably accurate view of your color balance status. (Especially if you primarily use a b&w viewfinder, as I do.)

The Panasonic more than fills the production-side bill for me. No lcd monitor can be color calibrated the way that a professional crt monitor can. The lcd display technology makes that basically impossible. But the Panasonic's colors are pretty darn good and have never led me to a bad surprise later on.

It's also worth noting that the Panasonic shows the full frame of video, something that the XL1s' viewfinder cannot do. It also displays the 16:9 guides from the camera, if activated. Also, since the Panasonic's is a native 16:9 screen it can display a true (un-squashed) 16:9, edge-to-edge image from the camera (if you're shooting in 16:9 mode), something that neither of the XL1S' viewfinders can do.

These lcd monitors, including the Panasonic, are not substitutes for an accurate post-production monitor. But the Panasonic is, in my opinion, an excellent lightweight and economical (relative to pro field crt monitors) substitute for using a heavy crt during production. It's also far more accurate and capable than either of the XL1S' viewfinders.

I think I have a photo, taken recently during shooting, showing the Panasonic on my XL1S. I don't know how useful it would be but I'd be glad to send it to you if you're interested.

Thanks a lot Ken, that explains everything perfectly!

The Radio Shack in our town had a sale on Power Acoustik TFT-LCDs that are made for playing DVDs and VHS tapes in cars. I bought one for $179.00, affixed the shoe from an old camera flash to it, and.... bingo! The nice thing about it is because it's made to be used in a car you get an 8' cable with it. I power it indoors with an ($8.00) 120vac to 12vdc adaptor, and outdoors with a $59.00 portable battery charger/jump starter I got at Wal-Mart. You can buy battery cases to make a belt-rig with alkaline batteries for about $12.00. I also made a hood. The one I got does 4:3 and 16:9. Waaaaayyyy better than the XL-1s EVF.

Check them out at poweracoustik.com, if you're into build-it-yourself. If not, ZCG would be my choice.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I decided to go with the Nebtec 5" given its impressive luminance, relatively small size and my budgetary constraints. Down the road I might consider upgrading to the 7 inch monitor. I will let you posted on how things work out.
-Phil

<<<-- Originally posted by Philip Lakritz : Thanks to everyone for the advice. I decided to go with the Nebtec 5" given its impressive luminance, relatively small size and my budgetary constraints. Down the road I might consider upgrading to the 7 inch monitor. I will let you posted on how things work out.
-Phil -->>>>>>>>>>>>




Yes let us know. I'm undecided between the 5" and the 7" from Nebtek. I like the 5" because it is small, it is cheaper, and it might be all I really need. Yet of course I like the 7" because of what Ken has mentioned...it could show 16:9 aspect ratio as well as the 16:9 guides, and friend who directs might like having something a little bigger to look at.

I'm not sure if the 5" shows the guides or if it shows the full frame of video. I don't even know if I really want to shoot that much in 16:9 (the general consensus around here seems to be shoot 4:3 and crop in post...but even that is up to debate), but then again I might want to shoot widescreen if I got that Anamorphic adapter. Then that 7" would come in handy.

I'm definitly going to get either of those two, just can't decide yet.

Brad,
I'm pretty sure that the 5" Nebtek will show the 16:9 guides, since that signal is actually sent from the camera. I don't know whether or not it will show the full video frame.

Give the folks at Nebtek a call. I'm sure they'll be very helpful.

will do, thanks Ken.

I was originally looking at the Optex 7" LCD, but it appears that it's a rebadged Lilliput. I have no experience of this manufacturer and, although the Optex 7" is very competitively priced, I'm seriously considering the Nebtek.

But 5" or 7"? That is the question!

Like you, Brad, I'm not certain that I'll ever need to shoot in 16:9, but full frame is a must. Did you find out anything from Nebtek as to whether the 5" supports full frame view and 16:9 guides?

Ken, the Nebtek adpatation of the Panasonic LCD includes changes to the cable connectors. Was it tricky adapting the standard version to use the XL1s, and in your opinion, would it be possible to draw power from the DC outlet used (or not, in my case) by the MA-x00?

Ken, the Nebtek adpatation of the Panasonic LCD includes changes to the cable connectors. Was it tricky adapting the standard version to use the XL1s, and in your opinion, would it be possible to draw power from the DC outlet used (or not, in my case) by the MA-x00?Actually, no, it didn't change the cable connector. And, no, I wouldn't think it would be possible to use that small DC outlet in the XL1S.

Looking at the positioning of the LCD on the XL1s I'm not keen on adding a battery mount to the LCD...the XL1s is quite front-heavy enough as it is! :)

So, if the Panasonic LCD were to be powered by the XL1s's onboard batteries (I might have to go to a CH-910 for this), would the standard Panasonic connector be sufficient? The TC7-CAM Camera Connection Kit includes an Anton/Bauer connector, but I cannot see how this is of the slightest use on the XL1s as it stands.

Sorry if these are dumb questions.

Since camera-mounting the Panasonic places it on the shoe, and since you probably would only use this configuration with the camera on a tripod, it really doesn't add too much nose-heaviness. It's roughly over the center or gravity and easy to adjust the tilt balance with a good tripod.

The standard connector represents a bundle of cables coming from the camera, one of which is for power. Indeed, the Anton Bauer connector is really only for 12v operation with A-B batteries. Unless you use an A-B compatible battery pack (a possible power option but much more $$ than the Canon conversion) it is indeed useless. The only other standard power option is for a/c power (which connects to the same cable).

The Canon battery mount conversion is really an excellent choice if you use an XL1s. You'll kick yourself in the tail many times, and possibly develop a shrinking sense of self-esteem <g>, if you buy this monitor without this conversion.

Charles,
The Power Acoustik LCD looks really tempting for the price. Are they sharp enough to focus an anamorphic adapter? That’s pretty much the only reason I’m looking for something like this. Also, they are described as having widescreen. Does this mean they do 16:9? Does it show the full frame "edge to edge?"

I couldn't answer your question because I don't have an anamorphic lens. But the image is amazingly sharp... it's built to play DVDs, remember.

The color and sharpness are 100 times better than what you see in the EVF on the camera.

And, yes... if you get the 16:9 model (that also displays 4:3), it goes edge to edge.

My only gripe is the limited performance outdoors; but that's a problem with all LCD monitors. I made a hood for mine and it helps a lot.

The Power Acoustik sounds like the way to go to me. Could you describe what the inputs are like? (Their Web site doesn't have much info.) Are the video connections RCA, miniplug, coax, s-video or something else? Does the power cord hang off it, or if the cord plugs into it, what's the connection like? Am I correct in assuming its 12V DC? I’m unsure how to rig up a power source for this. Wouldn’t there be a way to use a 16V battery somehow? I need something small I can either tape to the back of the monitor or the leg of the tripod. Having a cord hang down to a battery on the floor would really suck.

Where can one buy this blessed Panasonic LCD? What are its dimensions? Price? I searched Panasonic’s website but did not find it…

Is it compatible with the XL1s?

I am looking for an approximately 2.5 x 2" LCD High Resolution/quality
Monitor compatible with my Canon XL1s.
NTSC only
I do not need audio in/output. I would like the camera to handle these
sorts of issues.

Very much similar to the GL1 monitor actually. !!!

In fact I just would like it to function much like a high res viewfinder 2.5 X the size of the existing color viewfinder of the XL1s.

At the end of a session (I use 80 mins. Sony MDVC) I view my work with a Sony I MDV player. It has a 4" LCD.
However, I cannot mount it on camera.

I had another idea: how about a viewfinder enhancer much like this: http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/dv/lcd/lcd_mag.htm.
But for the viewfinder.
Or a viewfinder with a much larger high res glass.

Do you not get a headache/left eye twitch at the end of the day? when you have to look through the view finder for long periods of time?

Virginia,
If you're referring to the 7" Panasonic TC-7WMS1 monitor you can get it from a number of places. I highly recommend getting it from Nebtek (http://www.nebtek.com/7inch/neb70.html) if you plan to use it with an XL1s. They can fit it to be powered by the same BP series batteries that you use with your camera.

You can find more information on the Nebtek site and Panasonic also has a downloadable brochure on their site.

Thanks Ken,

So I have seen it without realizing that it is the Panasonic. Nebtek is a good company.

My problem is that it is just too too large.

I am out in the field and on the move.

I need an LCD that is very compact and very portable. And fit seamlessly under the rain cover, etc. etc.

I agree that it is very good quality though.

Nebtek's smaller monitors are also good units. These are not the standard dim, coarse junk that you'll normally find. They are bright and reasonably crisp displays, many of which can also be adapted for BP batteries. Nebtek's heritage is in video-assist technology for the film industry. They are, indeed, good folks out in Salt Lake City who love to talk to customers about their products. Give them a call. My conversations with them suggest that they'll be glad to help you and will be quite honest if they cannot help you.

Does anyone know Nebtec's URL? I just tried searching for it but it doesn't come up in Google.

http://www.nebtek.com/

Thanks, Ken...I'd just found it as you posted this. On my initial search here at DVi, I found it spelled "Nebtec" several times and assumed that was the correct spelling.

We might want to correct those spellings so that future searchers aren't confused like I was.

On second thought...we'd better first check that all is well with the company. Their site looks abandoned. Dead links for "Company" and "Contact"...lots of broken image links. Have they gone belly up?

No, I'm pretty sure that they're alive and well. I see the Contact and other pages. (I just met Gaylen Nebeker last fall.)

Hey Ken,
We've got a few run and gun shoots coming up where I can't bring the DRCO 8045Q along. I found a great deal on a Panny 7" and I was wondering about the "Nebteking". Did you do that yourself or did you have to send t to them? Any idea of cost? What do you need for mounting on, say, a small light stand?
Jim

Hi Jim,
I sent my Panny 7" to Nebtek to have the conversion made. I don't recall the price but think it was somewhere between $100-200. They did the conversion quickly and cleanly. It works very nicely.

I recently saw a BP power conversion kit, comparably priced to the Nebtek, that basically attaches to the back of the monitor and plugs into the monitor's existing power connection. I believe it works with the Panny 7". Its advantage would be that it does not require hard-wiring. I -think- I saw it in the Markertek (www.markertek.com) catalog, but am not sure. It may be worth a search there if you're in the market.

Aw, Ken... you've got me drooling now, but I can't find it (I was just about to send my monitor off to Nebtek...that's why I was looking for their site. But this stick on version sounds better). Tried every search combination I could think of...no luck.

Any other clues you can give? Remember a brand name, model number...anything?

It is, indeed, Markertek that's selling this item. It's on the inside cover of their new catalog.

Based on their inventory reference I think it's a Delvcam product. Here are the Markertek references.

For Sony, Panasonic, JVC batteries:
DELV-BPSY -- $84.99

For Canon batteries:
DELV-BPCA -- $84.99

For Anton Bauer Gold Mount batteries:
DELV-ABG -- $144.99

It's basically an L-shaped plate to which the LCD monitor can be screwed. The battery mount is on the back of the plate, and has a power lead that would presumably plug into your monitor's power hole. (On the Pana 7" that would probably plug into the female lead of the multi-function cable.)

Good luck.

I have the Panasonic 7" on order (it should arrive in a couple of days) and I just found the Nebtek converter. . .what's the turnaround time on sending in the monitor? I would need this by the end of the month (the 27th) would this be enough time?

Also, as far as mounting. . .I can't afford the B/W viewfinder, and the LCD is vastly superior to the color EVF so I was thinking it might be useful to simply remove the entire EVF fitting (since I don't use the on board mic either) and mount the LCD where the EVF usually mounts. Has anyone attempted this? Does anyone sell a mount like this or would I just have to manufacture something like this?

Kevin,
Call Nebtek regarding their turn-around. They're a small company so I'm sure it varies.

You can run an XL1s without the viewfinder being attached. You just have to deal with toggling the status / menu displays on the external monitor. Experiment when your monitor arrives.

Any thoughts on the new Delvcam (bad name) 5.6" Hi res monitor they're advertising? The price is great and you could do the Canon conversion and a flexible tripod stand for around $300.

Thanks for scrounging up that information, Ken.

I just stumbled across a surprising new product from Varizoom. Check it out here. (http://www.varizoom.com/pages/701m.php) It allows you to mount the battery underneath the monitor to prevent the monitor whiplash that I'm sure we've all encountered.

Ok Guys... Here's the deal.

I spoke with the owner of Varizoom last week who wanted to know if NEBTEK wanted to stock his new Li-Power option. I like the bottom mounting design for taking care of the "whiplash effect. However I do find that a 5" monitor does not suffer the way a 7" monitor does (as I'm sure Ken can attest to). The only flaw in the design is that it only handles something like 5200MA. Any BP945 will give you 7200MA which is a little over 25% more power. And I can tell you from experience... you want all the power you can get on set.

Yes, Delvcam has blatantly "knocked off" the NEBTEK Li-Battery Adapter... they also copied the double Hotshoe. What are the differences... far too many for me to list in this forum.

Yes there are many monitors we can add a Lithium-ion Battery (or Pro Box) to, and there also those that we cannot. We never really know until we get a look inside. Unfortunately Varizoom is one that we cannot, so anyone who has one (and wants to keep it) will have to look to them for another powering solution.

Why NEBTEK 5" or 7"?

The NEB50 series uses the top of the line Primeview module to give one of the highest resolutions and brightness' available in any 5" monitor without stepping up to HD. And no you don't need a hood unless your in a desert, on the ocean, or have the sun reflecting directly onto the screen.

The Panasonic TC-7WMS1 really speaks for itself. If we could a manufacture a monitor that offered all the "tweaks" and picture quality of this monitor we would have long ago. Because Panasonic kills us on pricing!

Ooops, forgot this question...
Turnaround time for a Li- Battery Adapter is 24-48 hours from the time we recieve a monitor. If we have previously added a Li-Battery Adapter to any particular brand of monitor (ie. Panasonic), turnaround time would be cut in half. With enough warning I can even get them back out the same day they arrive.

Guys, please allow me to suggest using Nebtek over Delvcam. Nebtek is a smaller company but because of this, it has its advantages. The company rep is right here on this board, whereas the other guys have probably never heard of us. Nebtek is at all the major trade shows, they are accessible, friendly, honest, hard-working -- they are "in the trenches" with the rest of us. Their turn-around is faster, their quality is better. You simply can't go wrong with Nebtek. Hope this helps,

For those unaware, Rob is a representative of Nebtek, and a very good one at that!

Mea Culpa... I always forget to identify myself, even though I know half the names on the thread.

Thanks for the compliment Ken, I do my best.

How's the monitor working?

My 'Nebteked' Panny 7" is working perfectly, Rob. Not a glitch.

Glad to hear it!
Thank you for referring John. I don't know if we will be able to help him, but I promise I'll do my best. Always need to lend a hand to a fellow Gaijin... Wakaru?

While we've got Rob here, isn't the Nebtek 5" considerably higher res than the Panny 7", actually twice the pixel count?

Hi Jim,
I'm sorry to say that is not the case...
Although the NEB50XL has the best Primeview module* available for a 5" TFT/LCD, non-HD monitor, the Panasonic still has the edge.

The NEB50XL is 960 x 234 with a total of 224,640 pixels.
The Panasonic TC-7WMS1 is 234 vertical x 480 horizontal x 3 with a total of 336,960 pixels.
I have asked the same question to Panasonic that all of you have asked... " What's up with that confusing resolution?" In the 3 years we have been a Panasonic Authorized Reseller I have yet to get an adequate response, but according to the Pixel count Panasonic would have the higher res.

The viewability of the NEB50XL is better (especially off axis) and the anti-glare/anti-reflective coating on the Primeview module makes it better for outdoor work, but the Panasonic offers all the image tweaks imaginable (Hue, Saturation, Color Contrast, Brightness). You can really make the image "POP", as opposed to the Color & Brightness only controls on the NEB50XL.

*Primeview module's are the same ones that were used in the Transvideo Rainbow series monitors.

<<The NEB50XL is 960 x 234 with a total of 224,640 pixels.
The Panasonic TC-7WMS1 is 234 vertical x 480 horizontal x 3 with a total of 336,960 pixels.>>

It's pretty bad marketing on Panny's part, because that 3x is both hard to grasp and missing in the specifications at places like B&H. On paper it looks like a 124k resolution. What is the comparable NIT of the 5" and the 7"? Is the Panny a good outdoor screen? I've owned the Nebtek 5" so I'm very familiar with it's daylight performance (which is great).

It was a resolution issue for me, and I'm really not comfortable on critical shoots with anything less than an Hi Res CRT like the 8045Q. That said, a bunch of upcoming travel shoots won't accomodate it, so I'm back looking for the best res LCD I can pack ight for flight.

I couldn't agree with you more. The first question anyone asks me is "What is the resolution?". If they could only come up with a standard resolution that anyone could recognize it would be a much easier sale for me.

The Panasonic NIT lists at not less than 300 cd/m.
The NEB50XL NIT lists at not less than 350 cd/m.

I actually like the NEB50XL better for outdoors (Sundance, Lake Powell, Moab), but I love the picture on the Panasonic when I'm in the studio. As far as replacing a CRT, I just got my hands on the new Panasonic BT-LH900P HD LCD monitor and it is amazing!
Unfortunately when I saw the price I almost had a coronary, and it is bulky monster (forget about mounting it on your camera).

I hear that they are now making the rental lists at most camera houses. It might be a great opportunity to check one out if it is a short shoot and you can get production to pay for it.

Rob, is there a # I can reach you at later this week? I'd like to talk about te 7' conversion etc.

9:30AM - 5:30PM, Mountain Time
801-467-1920

Anyone know of a UK supplier of these Panasonic LCD monitors?