Hi guys, I am desperate for some help on this issue.

I have a panoramic picture that I import into after effects and keyframe so that the view pans from the middle of the picture out to the far left, then the far right then returning to the middle. I overlay video over the top of this and set the parent so that it follows the keyframe. When i export the video and convert to an mpeg using mainconcept mpeg encoder I see serious jitter when the pan is moving, especially at the faster end of the pan (as i have enabled easy in and out on the keyframes). This is especially noticeable when watching on a television, which is what the clip will be intended for...

I am unsure of whether the usual rules of deinterlacing and field dominance etc is applicable seeing as i'm using a still image and not a video.

I have tried the following adjustments but none have led to success:

- imported the photo into photoshop and changed the pixel aspect ratio to the 4:3 standard option

- added motion blur

- selected interpret footage

- enabled frame blending

if anyone can sort this simple but annoying problem I would be VERY greatful...

David

What kind of jitter?

Are you viewing the video on your computer monitor or a TV? Since you said you are converting it to Mpeg using the mainconcept encoder, I'm going to assume TV.

When you encode the video, make sure you set the correct field (top or bottom). Otherwise when you view it on the TV, the image will look like it jumps ahead one frame, then back.

Otherwise when you view it on the TV, the image will look like it jumps ahead one frame, then back.


John, thanks for your reply. That is exactly the type of jitter I'm seeing, however I just put the uncompressed avi onto a disc and read it with a divx dvd player and I still see the jitter.

I also tried converting in mainconcept with top fileld first, bottom field first and progressive, none of which sort the issue...

I am well and truly stumped...!

Hi David,
The jitter coud be generated by the movement itself. When you move a still using two (or more, doenst matter) keyframes sometimes could happens that the interpolation gives results that doesnt match an exact pixel number but fractions of pixels.
You can try to modify this code http://aenhancers.com/viewtopic.php?t=457
to work with pan intead of scroll (it should be very simple)

Hope this helps

Martin,

thanks for your reply. Unfortunately Im a relative newbie compared to you guys and I dont have a clue what to do with this code...

David

p.s - I have uploaded the photo I am having trouble with incase anyone else fancies having a play to see if they can create a pan that doesnt jitter on tv playback.

www.rideoutproductions.co.uk/Copy4.jpg

I have both machines rendering right now (and will take a while) but I´ll try to put the image and write the code for you (and explain how to use, of course) so you can reuse in the future.
Give me some time.

Martin,
I'd appreciate that. Many thanks
David

Hi David,
I´m back again.
Sorry for the delay but I couldnt finish my rendering (the system said around 450 hours!!!) as soon as the render finish I will make the code.
Sorry again

450 hours?! wow.. thats a pretty heavy project...

Ok no problem, I will keep checking back to see if you've replied. I should be starting the work that needs this info on tuesday the 1st of May, but take your time. Whenever you get a chance I'd appreciate it.

David

Martin,

Any luck with this? Im starting the work now and would be super chuffed if i could solve this problem.

Thanks
David

Did you say your jitter is a frame forward then one back through the whole pan? I had this problem and it was because I was rendering lower fields first, rendering upper fields first fixed it. -that depends on where it's going, in my case it was avid HD. Play with the fields: lower, upper, and off -then do a test.

Aric,
thanks for the suggestion, that was one of the first things i tried and it did not make a difference. Ive had that problem with video before but when panning accross still images clearly something different is causing the jitter...

Are you changing the field settings in AE or in the mpeg encoder?

Are you changing the field settings in AE or in the mpeg encoder?

I have tried both. I also played back to avi before conversion with different AE field settings and I get the same result on playback

Hi David,
I´m really sorry for the delay (it was absolutely impossible to use my machines).
I made two differet codes and both didnt work ok enough but finally I discovered that using a directional blur with the same direction as the movement the jitter dissapears completely. Also I keyframed the blur to use more blur in the fast moving parts and going to zero when the image stops and stays still.
It seems that the problem is with the sharp edges in the areas where you have high contrast for example the windows (and not the tree that has no jitter). That means that the ultimatte solution would be to make a rough mask aroun that objects and use the directional blur to maintain a clear image and get rid of the jitter (anyway I found that to use the blur in the whole image is quite ok).
I think the problem was caused not by AE but from the ocular retention. I mean, the lack of a real moblur.
I hope is not too late for you.

Martin,

I am just about to start the work so thought i'd check the thread one last time and up pops your reply!

I am very inexperienced in AE but I have applied motion blur (the same as directional blur?) and enabled it on the timeline but I cannot see where I can keyframe it as the picture I have applied it to has already been keyframed for the movement.

I also read that the shutter angle and shutter phase plays a part. I have left phase at 0 and changed shutter angle from 180 to 720 but both options still give light jittering just with a differing amount of blur.

I understand what you mean by the lack of real motion blur causing the problem as it was originally a still photo, however my AE skills seem to have let me down at a crucial stage!

I was also wondering if the mpeg conversion using mainconcept mpeg encoder is undoing all of the work I am doing in AE when creating the avi. For example what should I choose with field encoding (top first, bottom first, progressive frame) and should I use deinterlacing (if so top or bottom field?)

If it is not against the boards rules could you drop me a line on sales@rideoutproductions.co.uk as it might be a bit quicker than waiting for replies on here, but I am literally waiting for this to be sorted before I can begin the next 3 months work!


Many many thanks for your help so far.

David

Hi David,
The motion blur is something completely different to the directional blur.
Forget the mo blur and apply a directional blur (found in effects>blur>directional blur), set the angle to the same direction of the movement and finally keyframe so the bigger the movement the bigger the amount of blur and going to zero when the movement stops (also keyframe the angle if the direction changes during the shot).
The encoder has nothing to do with this particular problem (the test I´ve made were with uncompressed output).
Try that and tell me the results (mine were very good)

All the best

Martin Chab

Martin what kind of numerical value do you apply to your directional blur?

it sounds like a 3:2 pull down type of artifact. what was the orginal source of the video footage? was it captured on film or at 23.976fps and go through telecine? what is the output fps of your project?

with this issue, you would not really see any artifact until the problematic footage was indeed changing over time, such as your pan. with this problem adding blurs would not help as the core issue still remains. do you see horizontal black lines in the footage?

Adam,

the original background footage that seems to have the problem is a 7MP digital still. With 25fps video overlayed, the final output is also 25fps.

I actually gave Martin the original files for him to play around with and he claims it worked so I still have great hope for the directional blur!

David

in all the improvements and presets ae has developed it still hasnt conquered this problem since the beginning.
sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesent. i cant seem to lock down the reason.
it could be colours. try tinting the image to a few different shades and see if that affects it.
less zoom and pan is the obvious answer if you can get away with it & directional blur doesnt work.
keep up informed david.

sorry keep us informed

just thinkin here,
if the directional blur or anything else dosent work (the blur may soften the image too much) why dont you render out the clip at say 3 times slower than you need it, or 4 times slower to get it nice and smooth. then speed that clip up x3 or x4 in your NLE - ........... could work .........

Hi David,
The numeric value for the directional blur would be different for each footage and animation speed. That means that you dial zero at no movement keyframes and visually dial a number at the maximum displacement parts to cancel the jitter and let AE interpolate the inbetween. As I told you the result was quite good for me. I dont have internet at the studio but I will try to remember to make a copy of the result and post for you to see (may be I have also the AE project, let me see)

All the best

Have you tried just adding a 0.5 gaussian blur?

Hi David,
Yesterday I made a new test (I forgot to copy to post but I will) that gave me a better result.

1. import the image to AE
2. drop the image to a new composition icon to make a full size comp
3. go to composition settings and dial the size of your final comp
4. adjust the scale of your image
5. go again to comp settings and dial a number that allow you to see the full picture (a big number)
6. ctrl-d (duplicate) the layer two times
7. on the top layer put the following effects:
find edges
hue-saturation (turn the saturation all way down)
minimax (operation: minimum, size: around 4, direction: both hor and vert)
gaussian blur (around 3 will do)
8. precompose the top layer moving all the attributes
9. set the trck mode of the second layer to luma inverted matte
10. set the parenting of the top and bottom layers to the middle layer
11. go to comp settings and dial the size of your final comp
12. put a directional blur on the middle layer
13. animate the middle layer keyframing the directional blur as you like (the other layers will follow as they are child of the middle layer)

In this way the directional blur only affects the edges and have no effect on the flat or soft areas that have no jitter.
The minimax radius controls how many pixels around the edges the comp will be blurred thats why the number will depend on the picture characteristics.

Martin,

Thanks a lot. I tried that today and it does seem to have a good effect. Still not perfect but I would imagine I need to play with the settings and values a little bit more, however even if I stopped now the results would be much better than they were with the pan alone.

Thanks to all for their help.