After 7 years, my trusted Sony PC100 is showing its age. Since I only do home movies, I was reasonably happy, except maybe for lack of manual controls and, most importantly, lack of low-light performance. After reading this forum for 2 days now, I just have a couple of questions:

1. Which one is better in low-light? I mean, with regular home lighting or dimmed lights in a restaurant, with no additional lights, on-camera or otherwise.
2. On HV20, when microphone level is adjusted manually, does that turn the AGC off? Also, does the level work for external mikes? Lastly, do you get sound level meters with either camera?
3. Does either Sony or Canon have a North America - wide warranty? Simply put, if I buy my camcorder in the US, will I have warranty coverage in Canada?
4. Could Vegas 6 alone be used to bring in & edit the footage from either camera?

If HC7 is only marginally better than HV20, I'd go with the Sony, to re-use my PC100 filters & remote control. Many thanks - Roman.

The store I bought my HV20 from has the HC7 right beside it. I made up my mind before I arrived, because I knew what I wanted (natural looking image, and true 24P).

Can you test and try both at a store local to you? Don't even need our input then. ;)

EDIT: I've used the Sony Z1U a lot. It is a prosumer camera (several thousand more than than the HC7 and HV20) - I prefer the Canon's image MUCH more than the Z1U. I bet I'd not like the HC7's image as much as the HV20, and I'm very familiar to the Sony HD image.

Hi Roman -
1. Can't speak to the HV20 (yet), but the HC7 is not bad in low light - CCI called the HV20 better, CNet says the opposite, so it's probably pretty darn close -I get a usable image in a room lit only with a low watt flourescent bulb... not great, definitely some noise, but considering, it's pretty decent. If you add the 3W Sony (around $30 I think) HL1, you're probably good to go for anything, you'd at least be able to get something usable if not "wonderful". Then again there's always "nightshot" on the Sony <G>!

2&3 - I have no clue... probably check the manual and call mfr.

4. I'd recommend vegas 7 for HDV... 6 "worked", but was pretty sluggish, 7 seemed to smooth out the previews enough to be usable (without transcoding & the resulting huge files). I run Veg7 and infinicam, with 3-4 .m2t files previewing on a "decent" but not terribly fast machine (3800+ AMD X2, 2G, cheap ATI dual DVI video card), it's a little choppy at times, but usable - Veg 6 was marginal for the same setup.

And if you've got investment in accessories, that could be the clincher <wink>!

You actually probably won't go too far wrong with EITHER camera from what I've read and seen - I went with the HC7 for Sony compatible accessories, but will evaluate the Canon "hands on" one of these days with any luck! The LANC is another key point for a lot of guys (7 has it, 20 doesn't).

DB>)

Hi, you could do a lot worse than read the reviews of both these camcorders at www.camcorderinfo.com. Im a Sony fan, but am taking delivery of the HV20 tomorrow because of (in my opinion) the slightly better picture quality from the Canon in both bright and low light. I like Sony camcorders, dont get me wrong, and ive owned the HC1 and FX1 and i've tested the HV7, but i really think the HV20 is the better buy right now, its cheaper, its got progressive options, and like i say, in my opinion has the better picture quality (noticably less noise). For many the choice is a no-brainer.

One caveat - just looking at the cameras side by side isn't sufficient - the LCD on the HC7 doesn't do the actual video any justice at all, and I can only guess that the same goes for the HV20... you really can't judge these cameras by the <3" screen... Need at least firewire out to a good calibrated computer monitor, or a BIG widescreen HDTV.

You might take a look at that german blog site - he's just posted HC7 and the HV20 is coming. Poke around the forums you'll find his links - here's the link running it through Googles translator... which is hit and miss, but you get the idea... - he numbers his postings, so dig around the site.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fxsupport.de%2F21.html&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

He found the HC7 to be as accurate color wise as the Canon A1 he'd spent quite a lot of time calibrating... he seemed impressed.

DB>)

You're better off buying in Canada. I'm in Winnipeg and i got my HV20 mail order from Calumet photo in Chicago. They gave great service, but the return policy on most of these cams is 14 days, and the whole thing becomes a real hassle if it has to be returned for whatever reason. The other thing I learned is that UPS of course collects the GST,PST (plus a $80 broker fee) from you when they deliver.... YOU DON'T GET ANY OF THAT BACK IF YOU SHOULD RETURN THE CAM! The Gov keeps it claiming it was YOUR choice to return the cam. So right off the bat on a return, you will be out about $250 (pst in winnipeg is 7%)

As far as the HV20 is concerned, it takes a great picture, good low light, the sound is okay for onboard mics, maybe even a little richer than my HC3. I think the auto white balance on the HV20 is better than my sony hc3. What has me down about HV20 is the build quality is not as good as I would have expected.

As Dave, I would recommend Vegas7... it's a great program...well worth the upgrade.

Thank you all for responding!

I decided to weigh the importance of certain features, and I think the low-light capabilities would be the most important, more so than being able to keep my LANC & filters. That's why I'd like to know about first-hand experiences - yes, I read the review, but... I also cannot test it in store, just as Dave Blackhurst mentioned. The best I can do is take my laptop there & connect it by Firewire, but the laptop screen does not have accurate colors. Lastly, it's hard to find a store that's dimly lit.

I'm still wondering if the warranty is for the whole of North America. I wasn't planning to ship it here, I have a friend coming over from Detroit in a month or so.

I still want to know about the AGC. My PC100 is REALLY noisy with external mikes on a quiet set.

Lastly, I know I have to upgrade my Vegas, I just hoped to save a bit of $$ and to jump right to version 8 when it comes out. If it's all about speed, I can wait, as my 6400 Core 2 Duo is pretty fast for most tasks.

Thanks again! - Roman.

Roman, I'm sure you will be very pleased with the color rendition of the HV20. Left in auto white balance, the color will be very natural in most typical lighting situations. For other, more demanding lighting environments, there are many ways to set the camera to give you accurate results. Manual white balance can be very effective.

However, keep in mind that no HD camera will be totally forgiving in poor light. HD requires more light than SD. If you go into a somewhat dark room with poor lighting, you may well be disappointed with the results. No HDV camera will produce a great picture under those conditions. So you either need to temper your expectations, or be prepared to provide additional lighting.

Roman, I'm sure you will be very pleased with the color rendition of the HV20. Left in auto white balance, the color will be very natural in most typical lighting situations. For other, more demanding lighting environments, there are many ways to set the camera to give you accurate results. Manual white balance can be very effective.

However, keep in mind that no HD camera will be totally forgiving in poor light. HD requires more light than SD. If you go into a somewhat dark room with poor lighting, you may well be disappointed with the results. No HDV camera will produce a great picture under those conditions. So you either need to temper your expectations, or be prepared to provide additional lighting.
Thanks, Ken! No free lunch, eh? Once in a while, I do drag out my 500W Home Depot light, even over the complaints from my friends & family. Pitty I can't take it everywhere I go...

Here now the native HDV Stream from HV20 and HC7:

http://www.fxsupport.de/21.html

Here now the native HDV Stream from HV20 and HC7:

http://www.fxsupport.de/21.html
Great, that's EXACTLY what I was looking for! I'll download as soon as I get home. Thanks again - Roman.

Here now the native HDV Stream from HV20 and HC7:

http://www.fxsupport.de/21.html

Thanks very much Wolfgang - I too will feedback once they are downloaded

From those samples, the HC7 looks really good but the HV20 has more image detail, not just sharpening though but actual detail. If you are watching the video from across the room on the sofa I can't imagine you'd notice the difference though. The sony has a more video-ish look IMHO.

Wes, I'm 100% onboard with your observations. I downloaded most of the clips and displayed them on my 50" plasma. There is more REAL detail in the Canon and more in-camera sharpening on the Sony. I could see where an untrained eye might think the Sony is sharper in some clips, but when you examine real detail, it's the Canon that reveals more.

What's interesting about this comparison is that it exemplifies the two different approaches that these companies use. Sony usually goes for a more apparently sharp picture at the expense of noise and artifacts, whereas Canon goes for more real detail and a cleaner picture.

In general I thought the Canon color balance was more believable and natural. The one clip I thought odd, especially since I've taken a few clips almost exactly like this one, was at the gas station at night. When I've shot clips just like that, there was far less noise than what I saw in this clip. I saw noise in both cameras on this scene, but I thought there was more on the Canon then there should have been. It was also apparent that the Canon revealed more detail in this type of lighting too.

But make no mistake about it, the Sony, based on these clips, is a very nice cam.

Nice job Wolfgang. Wolfgang, I'm assuming you used fully automatic settings on both cams?

>Wolfgang, I'm assuming you used fully automatic settings on both cams?<

The day shoots is in full automatic, the nightshoots is with shutter 1/25 on both cams.

Interesting. I'd bet they didn't need a slow shutter speed for that kind of lighting. I've taken night shots like that and I always disable the slow shutter.

Wolfgang,
Was the "x.v.color" on or off for the HC7 clips? I'm not asking because I expect to see an increased color range, I only ask because some folks have suggested, valid or not, that the x.v.color option somehow, in some scenarios, may degrade the signal. (?)

(BTW, thanks so much for doing this test!)

Update: Nevermind, I translated using Google and I see x.v.color is OFF. Thanks!

<Was the "x.v.color" on or off for the HC7 clips?>

Off. (http://www.fxsupport.de/21.html in page 20 is xv=on)

Those are bloody good samples Wolfgang... Thanks!

I THINK I would have to agree, although in some of the samples it was a bit of a coin toss, overall I would say that the canon is just a tinge sharper. But it's sometimes hard to tell... as Ken noted, both Sony and Canon approach this from 2 slightly different angles. Well... quite interesting none the less, and a picture's worth 1000 words, so now thanks to Wolfgang,we have some REAL samples to compare.

Downloaded all the samples... VERY interesting, both cameras look very close in daylight, both looked pretty good to me, I saw a bit of the overstated reds (I guess I'm the only one that notices it?) with Canon... but it wasn't a big thing...

Definitely the low light goes to the Canon though, which is pretty amazing since the HC7 is not bad.

It was really surprising how close the two were considering...

DB>)

I took a pair of the raw night footage clips into Vegas 7 used a split-screen mask to compare the footage. It starts with the HC7 footage on the left, HV20 on the right (and ends with the HC7 on the right). I re-rendered this to an .m2t file, so there is probably a slight amount of quality loss due to recompression, but not enough to matter for this comparison. No audio is included.

Here's a link to the footage:
http://rapidshare.com/files/26901332/HC7_HV20_09.m2t.html

I got give this one to the HV20.

update:
Here's a link comparing daytime footage:
http://rapidshare.com/files/26905230/HC7_HV20_01.m2t.html
Note the strange green tint of the left hand tree trunk that only occurs above the wall in the Sony footage. (once again, Sony HC7 starts on the left, ends on the right)

That HV20 takes some nice footage.

Yeah Dan, when I watched the night shot of the gas station, I noticed how much clearer the name on the pumps were with the Canon. Also look at the street sign when playing this clip and the difference is not at all slight.

I haven't downloaded your other clip...Rapid Share is making me wait. :)

But this is why everyone is so high on the little Canon...it's quite a camera.

Good job Dan... Thanks. So often with these samples, you can't figure out if it's the cam or simply operator inexperience. But with Wolgang's shots, and your editing, we really do have something honest to compare.

From what I could see, the daylight pics are pretty much a draw. I'm not sure there is to be too much concern over the green spot on the tree. The Sony colors are clearly more vibrant (which I like) but Sony does provide adjustments to tone it down if you prefer. I think if there's anything to be said here is that Sony tends to include more saturation and less brightness, and with canon it's the other way around. If you sit there and concentrate hard enough on the brick wall, it becomes almost a shock when the picture changes from the sony to the canon... kind of like turning the light on after you've been in the dark for an hour. but the canon sure wins out on the low light video, no question about that.

Dan, this moring I downloaded the daytime A/B shots you did...again nice job. To my eyes the color of the Canon does look more realistic, but that's the way I've felt about both the HV10 and the HV20 relative to the small Sony cams. Iterestingly though, in some shots the Sony was warmer and in others the Canon was a bit warmer. Not surprising since both cams were in automatic. But generally Sony cams will lean toward the vibrant (not necessarily accurate, but pleasing and vibrant) because that's what their customers want. That's been pointed out in reviews too. TV displays are set up no differently. Manufacturers know that most people are drawn toward that kind of picture. Canon doesn't seem to aim its product toward the same market segment even though the pricing is the same. I find it odd, but I'm obviously happy they did.

One thing I found interesting in watching the Wolfgang's clips last night when it was dark in my living room, there is just no question the Canon is sharper and has less artifacts. If you're watching on a large enough display, you can see moire patterns in some areas of find detail such as fences on the Sony. The shot by the water with the guy coming toward the camera with his bike is one example. Take a look at the fence on the Sony shot and it's very hard to discern the vertical bars that make up the fence. On the Canon it's quite clear. There's another shot by the water with the van driving down the path. On the Sony shot the fence adjacent to the water has a moire pattern whereas the Canon is totally free of this artifact.

I'd like to make sure the Color Slow Shutter and Auto Slow Shutter were both OFF on the HC7 for the night shots, because the difference is remarkable (almost like the gain or something is jacked up on the HC7).

Aside from that, though, the daylight footage with the HV20 wins. And I hate saying that because own an HC7! But I console myself with the fact that the HC7 has a LANC controller which I really like, and also that in my family I'm the only one who could tell the difference in the image quality between the HV20 and HC7. Also, I'm coming from a Sony Hi-8 camcorder, so the difference is huge for me already.

Lastly, and this is honestly NOT sour grapes or buyer's remorse, the HV20 design and ergonomics do not appeal to me in the least. And, shallow though I may be, visual design and ergonomics do matter to me. I'm a bit of a Sony snob in that respect. The HC7 is solid and feels great in my hand. I do wish I could get back the price difference though!

At this point, there is no perfect cam for me. My wish list would include the following, 1920 x 1080 acquisition (kind of like RED!), with LANC, manual shutter, aperature, WB, and a focus ring. Price it around $2000 and everbody would be happy. But it's not gonna happen any time soon.

Lastly, and this is honestly NOT sour grapes or buyer's remorse, the HV20 design and ergonomics due not appeal to me in the least. I'm a bit of a Sony snob in that respect. The HC7 is solid and feels great in my hand. I do wish I could get back the price difference though!

At this point, there is no perfect cam for me.

I could not agree more. By nature I'm a canon person, but I'm quite disappointed in the build quality of the HV20 and would much prefer the HC7 from that aspect. I considered trading off the HV20 for the HC7, but after seeing the low light footage, which is quite important for me... i guess I'll stick with the Canon for now and as you, admit that there is no perfect cam for me this year.... maybe next year!?

At this point, there is no perfect cam for me. My wish list would include the following, 1920 x 1080 acquisition (kind of like RED!), with LANC, manual shutter, aperature, WB, and a focus ring. Price it around $2000 and everbody would be happy. But it's not gonna happen any time soon.

I think a lot of us are in the same boat. I thought the HC7 would be a great cam but the flimsy focus wheel is a real problem as is the touch screen for me. Then I thought it would be the HV20 but it's build is described as flimsy and it, too, suffers from a cheap focus wheel. Then came word of the HD7 but it's OIS sounds really bad. I'm not so sure about its video; I still need to do some side-by-side comparisons like yours by editing together some of the clips I've seen around the Web.

Like you, I'm ready for put down $2K for a cam that has what I want. I'll settle for HDV and I don't even care about LANC. The rest of your specs are what we need. Maybe the HV30, HC8 or HD8 will be the cam. I hope the manufacturers are reading this.

And, if you're not tired of hearing it, great job on the side-by-side tests. It really makes it easy to see the differences.

Good luck.

Dennis

PS: I'm not seeing any green tint. Maybe I don't know where to look or my bad color vision is masking it.

I think you guys are talking about a pipe dream. We've got $7,000-8,000 HDV camcorders that don't have these features. If you want to get something within the next few years, you're probably going to have to temper your expecations....which frankly I think are not realistic.

Everybody has a 'hot button' and a 'must have' feature. If manufacturers were to put in every feature that everyone wanted, we'd have a 10lb camcorder priced at $20,000. ;)

It seems many people are always waiting for that 'next gen' cam which is 'sure' to be better....but many of these people will never get a cam. Life is short guys, enjoy what's out now and when that dream cam comes along, just trade what you've got. The best cams of today are amazingly close to broadcast quality. In my mind that's nothing short of amazing. Memories are fleeting and waiting to be captured today....I'll take a camcorder today with superb picture quality that might not feel like it's built like a tank. In a few years I won't even remember what this camera looked like.

I think you guys are talking about a pipe dream.


Could well be.... but then it's our pipe dream! :)

Yeah, but as I said, those without a high picture quality acquisition device will miss many memories until (if) that dream cam ever comes. They'll regret that down the road.

From a film-maker's perspective, LANC would be very nice on the HV20 - even my little old ZR20 has LANC! Why didn't Canon give the sweet little HV20 LANC?

I'll bet the HV30 will have LANC and the ability to flip the image internally - as if if the HV20 already isn't a dream, a future camera sure could be a stunner.

If HDV is still "in" by that time that is... ;)

When you see camcorders such as the Panasonic DV953, GS400, Sony TRV950, HC1000, and the HC1 all having adequate features, it seams a little strange that except for the JVC HD7, we haven’t had a feature packed camcorder since 2005. It really is a shame that the JVC HD7 has a bad stabilizer because this makes all the new camcorders unacceptable.

This is why people such as me, Dan Peterson, George Anthonisen, Dennis Vogel and Robert Ducon are complaining. It’s not like we’re dreaming. Hopefully within the next few months we start seeing some good quality camcorders again.

Paulo,

Exactly. I have a DV953. All I want is the HDV equivalent of it and I'll be a happy man.

Good luck.

Dennis

When you see camcorders such as the Panasonic DV953, GS400, Sony TRV950, HC1000, and the HC1 all having adequate features, it seams a little strange that except for the JVC HD7, we haven’t had a feature packed camcorder since 2005. It really is a shame that the JVC HD7 has a bad stabilizer because this makes all the new camcorders unacceptable.

This is why people such as me, Dan Peterson, George Anthonisen, Dennis Vogel and Robert Ducon are complaining. It’s not like we’re dreaming. Hopefully within the next few months we start seeing some good quality camcorders again.

People were clamoring for an inexpensive camcorder with 24p.....many said 'that's all I want'. Well they got it, but obviously many others have other needs. It's almost impossible for a manufacturer to please everyone in this or almost any price range within the range of even the well heeled consumer. I'll bet if the XYZ company designs a cam with every feature imaginable, you'll get some guy saying "yeah, but the damn thing isn't in red....when they come out with a red one, THEN I'll get it".

Every camcorder you mentioned above Paulo, I'm certain was criticized by many for not having this or that feature. I know for certain the HC1 was. So one person's 'adequate features' is another's 'inadequate features'.

It's simply impossible to please everyone.

even my little old ZR20 has LANC! Why didn't Canon give the sweet little HV20 LANC?The ZR20 is an antique... Canon has stopped putting LANC on single-chip camcorders several years ago. Presumably at that time they changed their minds about paying a licensing fee to Sony for LANC on anything except their three-chip camcorders. Hope this helps,

It's almost impossible for a manufacturer to please everyone in this or almost any price range within the range of even the well heeled consumer.I thing that everybody agree that at its price, the HV20 is a very good deal!
But I understand 100% Paulo Teixeira: there's currently a gap in the market between camcorders like the Sony HC7 or the Canon HV20 and the 'more pro' cameras like the Sony FX7 or the Canon XH-A1.
This gap exists in terms of features and in terms of prices; between 1500$ and 2500$, they're nothing to buy except the new JVC GZ-HD7, a promising camera, but some recent user reviews have shown that this camcorder has some flaws (bad OIS, CA spite a Fujinon lens, lower final resolution that the actual less expensive competitors...etc).

In the past, that was the market segment of the Sony TRV950 or the Panasonic GS400 (in SD DV), and, more recently, of the Sony HC1 (in HDV).

Every camcorder you mentioned above Paulo, I'm certain was criticized by many for not having this or that feature. I know for certain the HC1 was. So one person's 'adequate features' is another's 'inadequate features'.As an owner of a GS400 and of a HC1, I can confirm that these cams were not perfect. But I think that the people mentionned by Paulo are like me, they are not looking for a perfect camera, but only for a 'more featured' non pro HD camcorder...

I'd be very happy with the picture of the Canon and a build quality similar to the HC7 or HD7.... and I don't think that's too much to ask for... I'd even pay an extra couple hundred for it.

The build quality is fine to me.

I'll happily spend the money I saved from not buying a more expensive, lower quality image, elsewhere. :)

Mike

I'm with you Mike, let them keep the build quality as it is and I'll pocket the difference. To me the word 'quality' implies image quality first and lasting quality second. No matter how a cam 'feels' if it doesn't last, if it dies an early death, then its 'feel' is totally irrelevant IMO.

The other thing some people lose sight of, is the fact that including all the features people want will necessitate making the camera far bigger than an HV20 or HC7. Just take a look at the Canon A1, how many of you guys that are clamoring for all these features would want a camera that big for a 'knock around' unit....even if it was priced at $2,000? If I'm shooting HD professionally, then an A1 sized camera is perfect, but purely for 'fun', no thanks. I've found over the years that I'm far more likely to take a camera along if it's small and has great image quality, even if it doesn't have every conceivable feature. I speak from experience having bought an FX1 for a 'fun cam'.....man, was that ever a mistake! Yeah, it had all the features, but, a) I felt like a fool taking this almost broadcast-sized cam to family events and b) It was simply too big and too heavy to enjoy myself where I went.

It is physically impossible to include the plethora of features in a cam like the A1 in to a box the size of an HV20 or HC7. Frankly there's no way I'd buy a cam the size of an A1 if it's strictly used as a 'fun cam'....been there, done that. But that's me.

Well, I'm certainly NOT just imagining the build quality issue because LOTS of other people are saying the same thing.... don't have to go too far to see it either.

I don't think ANYONE expects to see an A1 crammed into an HC7 package... that's not what's being asked for or questioned here.

ive used both the hc7 and ive just taken delivery of a UK PAL HV20. Everybody went on about the "inferior" build quality of the HV20 against the Sonys, in reality the build quality of the Canon is perfectly fine. The ability to set the zoom toggle to a preset speed for nice slow zooms is a nice addition and for me goes a little way to putting right the ommission of the LANC port. At the end of the day and has been previously stated, and having used both camcorders, the Canon gives the better picture quality, and the 25p footage ive taken so far is simply beautiful. I like Sony camcorders, dont get me wrong, but the Canon is the best buy right now. Any features it lacks is made up for by the wonderfully rendered images.

Well, I'm certainly NOT just imagining the build quality issue because LOTS of other people are saying the same thing.... don't have to go too far to see it either.

You see what you want to see.

There are no issues with this camera, other than the fact that it records the best possible image in its price range.

If you want to spend more money on a camera that does less, but feels better... feel free. I'll enjoy the HV20 and I won't worry about the build since it really isn't a problem for most people on this board. I mean, has it hindered anyone by falling apart or something?

Nope.

Chat with you guys later, I'm off to the park with my daughter, and the HV20.
Hopefully it won't fall apart on the way there... ;)


Cheers,

Mike

I don't think anybody said anything about the cam falling apart??? Where are you getting this from? So many people want to take this out of context and I'm not sure why. We're not talking about fitting the A1 into a tiny package... we're not talking about cams falling apart. We're talking a slightly better quality exterior... things like this... not too hard to grasp is it?

That was the major complaint with the HV10 and they sure listened because it was completely changed in the HV20... of course this would not have happened if people did not state their dislike. If everybody swallows the HV20 asis, then there will be no change in the future will there??

I don't think ANYONE expects to see an A1 crammed into an HC7 package... that's not what's being asked for or questioned here.

Perhaps not, but the point I was making was to GET all those features in that many are asking, you WILL need a box the size of an A1. I think people miss that fact.

When you have consistently talked about 'poor build quality' it certainly gives the impression you are talking about a unit that seems to destined to fall apart in short order. As I've stated before, I agree that some Sonys 'feel' more substantial, but I've had those very same units fail mechanically. To me build quality implies LASTING mechanical quality and in the arena of camcorders that's simply not the case. Would you rather have a unit that 'feels' more solid or IS more solid as shown by its ability to go through time without mechanical failures? In other words 'feel' is superficial and nothing more....unless you can demonstrate a direct correlation between mechanical failure and 'feel'.

Second, nobody that I recall ever complained about the 'build quality' of the HV10. But yet you suggest that people did and then Canon listened and came out with the HV20. Am I to assume that you're saying the build quality is better in the HV20 then the HV10? Your reference to 'build quality' is very clear in your first paragraph which you then draw in when you mention that Canon changed this in the HV20.

The range of adjustability that the A1 possesses, individual buttons to control unique functions, focusing rings etc. etc. These are all things I've seen people hope for in many different threads. Chris already mentioned why Canon won't include LANC in a cam of this type, so if that's a biggie you need to shop outside the Canon family.

I'm not going to get drawn into this debate... if you guys are happy with the questionable design (for the lack of a more direct phrase) of the HV20 then all I have to say is that you are a little too easy to please.

I for one expect more for my money.... and I am entitled....if you want to lay down and settle... well that's your right too.

It's amazing to me that someone can so consistently knock the 'build quality' or 'questionable design' of this unit, but when asked to specifically reference actual tangible issues, he can't. And if you told my wife that in the area of video I was 'too easy to please', she would laugh you out of the room. It's hard to find someone more anal about this stuff than me.

It's amazing to me how ridiculous some of the posts are that I've had to take out of public view. Stubborn people need to realize that they can't change the minds of other stubborn people. Case closed,