Hey Everyone,

Would like to get some quick opinions on boompoles for small sized independent productions (I'm talking a crew of like 2-3 guys max).

Does anyone prefer wired over non-wired poles?

Any recommendations for brands?

Since we're talking independent we're also talking budget. Any poles that are good bang for the buck?

Thanks so much for your time.

J

Bang for buck goes to the Rode Boom Pole.

http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=BoomPole

Rough Pricing
http://www.zzounds.com/item--RODBOOMPOLE
http://dvcreators.net/rode-10-aluminum-boompole/

I always laugh at the prices of these things. C'mon people...it's a telescoping rod of metal. $20 at Home Depot.

Yeah, but that pole has to be light enough to hold over your head for an hour at a time.

It also has to have zero noise when it flexes. Any little creaks will be amplified greatly when picked up by the mic.

Painter's poles are great for screwing around when paid jobs aren't on the line, but they don't cut it when it either needs to work perfectly or you don't get rehired.

Listen to what Nate says.

Look, boom poles started out as broomsticks and painters poles and such. Then the folks who's livelyhood depended on getting sound recorded correctly started making improvements. After generation after generation, trial and error has led to better lighter materials, better operational engineering, and has solved countless hassles and problems that working pros have gotten ticked off about and demanded answers for.

If you don't want to pay the price of a professional boom pole that benefits from these decades of experience that's totally cool.

But for a lot of folks who realize that ONE otherwise PERFECT take where the actors NAILED the scene - screwed up by rattling cables or a sudden off axis mess created when the mic holder came loose and swung toward the ground is simply not worth the short term savings.

Good gear costs good money because it's GOOD GEAR.

And once you spend the money for it, you can safely FORGET about it, cuz it just works right every time. And not having to worry about minor stuff like whether your boom is going to crap out - is, from my perspective, much of what makes shoots a joy instead of a chore.

My 2 cents anyway.

Check out the new Gitzo carbon pole, 12' and around $250.

This:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=190226-159-R056&lpage=none

Plus this:

male 3/8" flare to female 1/2" pipe fitting adaptor
also from lowes or homedepot

Covered with flat black spray paint.

Total price, ~$40 Works like a champ!

I always laugh at the prices of these things. C'mon people...it's a telescoping rod of metal. $20 at Home Depot.

Not so. Bill's post lays it out nicely. You might as well say "It's a 20.00 microphone from Radio Shack." Good boompoles are balanced, built to be noise free/noise minimal to prevent transmitting noise up the pole (not really possible, but certainly diminishable), and built for comfort. Metal poles for example, aren't pleasant to hold in the cold, and are sometimes slippery in the hands of the sweaty-palmed boom op. Carbon is lighter, equally/nearly as strong/stronger (depending on the manufacturer), and you can't put a cable/buttplug in a light-change pole very easily. Plus, it's all about looking cool, right? :-)
Seriously, the DIY stuff is great for the home or low budget production, but it won't make the grade on a paying gig. Dan Selakovich, the Hollywood KING of DIY, also has commonly used, store-bought gear for the "real paying jobs."
If you're really into DIY, you might wanna check out his "Killer Camera Rigs" book.

On Doco work I'm happy to use a small k-tek pole but soon as I get into any form of Drama/Film work I only like to use Panamic poles (made here in the UK), never ever been happy with anything else but them, by the way if you have to ask the price then don't, especially with the very weak dollar at the mo.

I still use original Metal Panamic poles due to the very low bend even at full length but I have used there carbon poles and am equally happy with them.

As for budget, well we once had to find some gear for a limited priced production crew and ended up using a metal paint pole, fitted an adaptor in the end (best way to fix it is to epoxy it in to cut all movement in that area out the equation), due to noise the best way to deal with a low quality pole is to have it on full extension, reduces the chance of the pole chattering inside.

As for cabled or non, well you are on a budget so cable it, I worked most my career with a pole cabled and it will teach the crew how to work neat and tidy and how to handle cables, just because it's cabled does not mean you'll be any noiser than without, plus it's an essential part of learning the job, even when you work cableless there are still times you will need to work with a cable, hospitals for instance may not let you use any form of wireless etc etc.

Why does everyone get all up in arms when low budget DIY solutions are mentioned?

Since we're talking independent we're also talking budget.

I'll add a smiley here to convey the snarky attitude ;) So it doesn't blow up as these things tend to do.

No one is "up in arms."
The comment is made "I laugh at the price of these things, C'mon people...it's a telescoping rod of metal. $20 at Home Depot."

That calls to mind that some of us are fools for purchasing very expensive, and production-effective gear.

I've got my share of DIY gear too. :-)
I'd just never show up on a paying gig with it. Heck, I used a homemade dolly for a long, long time, and still have a homemade stabilizer. Nothing wrong with DIY. But it's not accurate to equate a $20.00 light bulb pole with a $300.00 boom pole.
Hopefully we can agree to not get snarky over that point. ;-)

it does not equate to a $300 boom pole...but for $300, I can buy a boom pole, make a blimp and suspension doohicky and buy a nice XLR shotgun. :) and If I've budgeted $500 for audio rental/purchase, I get $200 to spend in front of the camera which is where I feel alot of our (and my) low budget independant productions lack...set design, costumes...stuff that costs money...which we don't have.

Opportunity cost drives all of my suggestions and budgetting, as I get $$$ for tape stock and that's it for my productions, I get to beg, borrow and steal everything else (although I don't really steal stuff, the phrase sounds hollow with only 2 words). Painter's poles (not light changing poles) are specifically made for being held all day long to work with, you can get graphite ones, 16' long too that don't flex much. They cost a bit more, but it's still $50 to $300 for a pro boom. A 3/8" male flare to 1/2" female plumbing adapter will convert the painter's pole to the correct thread to hold standard audio equipment. That bit is a buck and a half. I see expensive equipment as fine for people who don't have the time or DIY aptitude (which some people genuinely don't...and I don't have a problem with that).

You were right, the other person's comment was a bit digging. although I do agree with the foundation for his statement, just not the tone...I have a car with heated seats too...but it's not absolutely necessary. My chevette delivered pizza for me for 3 years with out causing many problems at all...and when it finally died, it was cheap to replace. I did most of those repairs myself too ;) it's in my blood, I have to tinker with things.

So, what would I buy? I'd love to buy a pro vest and sled...and a 35mm adapter with a rod system and follow focus. These take time to build correctly that I don't want to spend. My rods and 35mm adapter are still not finished...I've had to twiddle more than I wanted to to make it go, but my boom pole took less than an hour to make with the blimp and wind diffuser. If the complaint is just that it doesn't look pro...matte black spray paint (high heat for lighting equipment) solves that problem. Hollywood is built on selling facades as the real thing :) It's all in appearances.

That whole setup cost me $30. The Sony ECM 672 for $100 on ebay needed some soldering (which is why it was only $100 ;) ), but $130 and I've got a 16' boom with blimp and suspension and wind diffuser and a nice $600 microphone. That's almost $500 I can spend in front of the camera on my next shoot (which I won't get anyway as I fund all my own productions...except "Curtain Call" which was funded primarily by Pat, our sound guy. That was our most expensive shoot to date at $250. I still haven't spent enough on any production to afford to put the pro boom pole in my budgets. My feature cost $235 in tape stock...not a dime spent in front of the camera. It shows! When I get to the point where I can spend money on a shoot, I'm going to put it all in front of the camera.

This really shouldn't be an argument - it's just a discussion of different perspectives.

The reality is that EVERYONE here probably started out right where Ben's post comes from. We ALL squeezed every nickle out of our dollars when we were learning to do this.

One thing those of us who've been in the business a long time try to do is pass along what we have discovered in our years of work.

Think of it this way. If you're learning to play the piano, it doesn't really matter if you're learning on a bar piano or a Steinway. You just need to learn to play. So the quality of the piano doesn't matter much.

Boom poles are like that too. Using a golf ball retriever WILL get your mic closer to the action and get you better sound - no question.

And if you want to save your money for other things - BY ALL MEANS use the golf ball retriever or anything else you can rig up. The RESULT (and the learning how to GET good results) is all that really matters at that point in your carreer.

But it's also hard to argue that as your skills become more refined, the more you can BENEFIT from better tools. In my piano analogy, as your TOUCH becomes more acute, you better appreciate the keyboard action of the finer pianos. It helps you PLAY BETTER once you've reached that level of expertise.

And if you've really become good at something, you can typically afford to spend more on better tools.

Please guys, don't take this as a slam on DIY approaches. We've all been there and continue to go there when needed.

But also please understand that there is also some value from listening to the experience of people who have been right where you are and have seen issues on the pathway to higher quality and have learned to appreciate solutions at the higher end.

It's not all smoke and mirrors up there.

Sometimes higher end gear REALLY DOES do a better job. Something that you'll learn for yourself as you continue to learn and move up.

Discussions are arguments, and this is a good and valuable one. Hearing the why's will help inform purchases one way or the other. Generally when these questions are asked, all that is spoken is "Brand X". Knowing the options and the pitfalls of each is important information. Thanks for chiming in for the middle party ;) Douglas, please don't take my DIY fervor as a direct attack, I have the utmost respect for your work that I've seen here in the past.

I'm just really a devil's advocate kind of guy. Fact is, I'd love to be able to buy everything, but starting out, saving $300 will be better spent getting the next step up of microphne...which will REALLY make a difference with the sound, or getting extra cables so you can get the camera farther away when shooting and not have to worry about the tether length :)...(My dad in fact scored about 300' worth of XLR cables from an auction for $5.)

Don't be afraid of used if going with pro equipment...this stuff is built to be beat up. With the DIY stuff, it'll last forever, but I still keep a screwdriver, hammer, pliers and pop-rivets on set for when it fails. From the earlier analogy, my chevette had a resident toolkit in it permanently too...and it got used frequently to keep it running.

Getting back to Jason's original question, part of it depends on what kind of work you are going to be doing. If it's run-and-gun, or sit down interviews, or feature film work then what you are looking for is going to vary. A ton of it is personal preference too, especially in boom poles and how they are configured.

For fast moving stuff, or where I'm boom and mixing, I tend toward shorter poles that are easier to manage. I also prefer coiled internal wiring for those poles. As the poles get longer (above about 10 feet), I tend toward straight internally cabled poles because the long coiled cabling starts to slap against the inside of the pole. Feature films tend toward longer poles (like 16-20 feet). Other folks I know swear by externally cable poles as being easier to manage than internally cabled ones. They are made from both aluminum and carbon fiber. The aluminum is heavier and gets hotter and colder, but is much cheaper.

As for brands, I think there are a bunch of good ones: K-Tek, VDB, PSC, Ambient, and more. There are differences in all of them in terms of materials, locking collar design, etc, etc, etc. If you are anywhere near someplace that you can try a few of them, you can start to decide what you like best.

Oh, and one more thing. You will absolutely want a good shock mount for your boom pole.

This:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=190226-159-R056&lpage=none

Plus this:

male 3/8" flare to female 1/2" pipe fitting adaptor
also from lowes or homedepot

Covered with flat black spray paint.

Total price, ~$40 Works like a champ!

For 40 bucks you are probably much better off with the $109 pole. You will go through more than 3 of those things by the time you go through one of the nicer poles. I used the painter's pole thing when I didn't have a choice, but it caused more trouble than it was worth and didn't end up lasting very long.

Mine's lasted for 2 years. That's pretty good ROI :) 7 productions, plus test shoots.

Cole,

That's great. Clearly you made a good decision.

But let's imagine that at some date in the future, your work gets so good that you're commanding serious budgets rather than the no/budget/low/budget position that your sig indicates today.

As some point, you're going to re-think this.

Precisely because while $50 verses say, $1000 is a BIG deal for you today - I bet that someday it won't be.

You'll look back and realize that the last seven jobs you did yeilded ample profit such as to make the difference between spending $50 and $1000 on a piece of gear designed to comfortably take you from job #7 to job #100 a no-brainer.

That's the dynamic that drives quality gear.

won't need to rethink at all...if I'm in that position, I'll gladly puchase a pro one...or hire a sound recordist who's got his/her own. My position has always been time=money, choose between which one you have more of (given the technical aptitude to make what you need) and purchase accordingly.

The question posed at the top of the thread though was

"Would like to get some quick opinions on boompoles for small sized independent productions (I'm talking a crew of like 2-3 guys max)....Since we're talking independent we're also talking budget. Any poles that are good bang for the buck?"

I responded to those points of the questions. While the common answer always uses the addage "why reinvent the wheel", sometimes, making your own wheels fits into your budget better. If I could find a comparable boom pole, wind diffusing blimp and suspension system to fit my budget, I'd be all over it...but it doesn't exist yet...perhaps I should start manufacturing and selling my own DIY ones ;)

and Bill, I'd love for you to tell me that my work right now warrants a larger budget, but I don't think that's the case...unless you're willing to invest...I've got some scripts I'm working on that could sell huge :)

and Bill, I'd love for you to tell me that my work right now warrants a larger budget, but I don't think that's the case...unless you're willing to invest...I've got some scripts I'm working on that could sell huge :)


First thought. Your work likely DOES warrant more than your getting - and I can say this pretty confidently even tho I've never seen it.

I base that estimate on the fact that you're clearly both passionate about dedicated about your moviemaking. If that doesn't result in your budgets getting progressively larger, somethings WRONG.

Second thought. (Bear with me, this one is hard to hear and HUGE in the overall scheme of things)

I suspect that the only one telling you that you don't deserve bigger projects and or larger budgets is YOU. That idea is embedded in your signature. It's a message you appear to have you've decided to send out in all your interactions "I'm the LOW BUDGET guy" "Hire me if you need "low budget."

I think you should stop that.

Get over what you can't (or haven't yet) done. WALLOW in what you CAN do. Focus on it. Improve it. Tell EVERYONE about it. And try to ignore as much as possibe focusing on LIMITATIONS. Everyone has them. The people who "make it" are always the ones who ignore what they can't do and celebrate what they can.

Re-define yourself from the "low budget" guy - to the guy who will out work, out hustle, out perform and flat out out moviemake everyone out there.

Convince yourself of THAT and your future is unlimited. Convince yourself that you're just the "low budget guy" and it's pretty certain that will come true.

We're talking about boom poles - so stop waisting your time and effort celebrating your LIMITATION - that perfect home/made painters pole/boom - and start imagining yourself so good at moviemaking that nobody even BOTHERS you with the line-item cost of something as insignificant as boom poles anymore.

At the risk of sounding like a two-bit motivational speaker - that old formula is usually spot on. Conceive it - believe it - achieve it. You leave out ANY of those steps and you'll likely never get to the last one.

For what it's worth.

Bill, your post reminds me of an engraved card I saw in the display window of a high-end men's clothing store in San Francisco many ywars ago, the only text in the display. It was next to a manequin dressed with an Armani suit, Bally shoes, Vuitton briefcase, etc and it read ...

"To get to where you want to be, you need to look like you're already there."

In the many years since then, I've yet to see a situation where that didn't hold true.

hehe. I'm not limiting my self by thinking low-budget. When I go budget, I have to be able to hit the ground running and make enough to support my family, mortgage and other associated costs...while quitting my day job. So when I hit budget productions, I need to be able to acheive what I'm selling. Being passionate in dramatic moviemaking, doesn't equate to having learned the craft of moviemaking. I'm working on that part right now. I have several key targets for myself before I move past the "Low Budget Guy" thing. I can make consistently good looking productions now. My shots are still static, so next I'm on to camera blocking and talent blocking to get past the standard indie "talking heads" setup. I'm also working on my directing chops by getting different actors involved in my productions, not just people I know.

The lack of budget is pointedly self imposed...specifically as a learning tool. Not having money to spend on a production forces me to think of creative solutions. That way, once I'm on a set and stuck beyond all recognition on a "need a solution NOW!" problem, I'll be able to ask for a stick of gum, some gaffers' tape and a tin can lid from the craft services folks and make my own doohicky whatzit on the spot. All my low budget solutions solve the problems that spending tons of money would do, without spending the money. I'm not selling my self short, I absolutely intend to make a career out of this, but I don't learn that way...programmer/computer geek...I have to build the whole thing from beginning to end from little parts to fully "get it". I don't need you to understand or approve and I'll keep sharing my knowledge as I go on...but I will get to the point where I can say "I need a 5k up there and over there, without worrying about the cost of that"

Budgetting is a pieced on my list of things to learn, at that point, I'll hit the funding path and figure out how to do that part as well. This is a learning process...process is the key word. I don't have access to the time or resources to afford being on set to learn this stuff, I've done 6 years of research on the 'net, reading books and making short films which have gotten progressively better with experience.

Don't sell me short because you can't see my path please. I'll hang out with you in hollywood someday ;) I'll just get where I'm going on my own terms, because I can't afford to fail, my wife and kids are too important to just jump in head first to this industry that is notorious for letting people languish in poverty while they perfect their craft and make a name for themselves.

Until then "Hey! I'm the low budget guy". Need low budget advice...ask for it, I'll tell you how to make high-end gaffing equipment using parts you can find at the hardware store...just like the guys who first put them together on the set of some random hollywood feature.

I live in Australia and am trying to attach something to the end of a painter pole as well.. Any idea what this (a 3/8" to 1/2" plumbing adapter) translates to in metric.
I converted this to mm, but could see nothing of this in the plumbing section, is there a name for this adapter, a brand I could ask for ??

I live in Australia and am trying to attach something to the end of a painter pole as well.. Any idea what this (a 3/8" to 1/2" plumbing adapter) translates to in metric.
I converted this to mm, but could see nothing of this in the plumbing section, is there a name for this adapter, a brand I could ask for ??

Hi Anmol,
another Sydneysider here. All the painters poles I've used have a vary large, coarse square cut thread on the end, I doubt you'll get anything apart from a painting thing that'll screw onto it. However you could probably just drill and tap a short length of 1/4" or 3/8" Whitworth brooker rod into the cast bit and then use any of the normal audio adaptors.

Having said that the biggest problem with painters poles is they rattle!

We have 5 Rode boom poles, they're good value for they money but given these are rented out it's perhaps not surprising that 4 of the 5 have jammed. Fixed for nix by Rode and I wouldn't say it's a design problem just clumsy users.

The best poles I've looked at are from Loon, anything but cheap but those guys have put a lot of thought into their poles.

just cross thread the painter's pole (they're cheap and it'll hold really well ;) , then take your microphone mount and match it in the store...that's how I found the right size.

Easy does it people. My tone was light and humorous. I know people get touchy when they think someone is trying to suggest they've wasted $200+, but that was not my intention. Obviously a painter's pole won't impress clients, and doesn't have the same features as a full-fledged carbon-fibre boom. I don't know what kind of experience you guys've had with the $20 telescoping rods, but I've had three productions worth, and they're light, they don't "creak" and are easy to adapt to a 1/4" mic thread. Putting a cable through one isn't so hard either, if you're willing to splice it.

Clearly no pro is going to buy a pole from a hardware store. But this guy is looking for a cheap, budget solution to a simple problem, and with my experience with a rod from Home depot, I would never invest in its $300 big brother, at least not right now.

Perhaps spraying some expanding foam insulation into the painter pole would help with the rattles.