Just finished my Teaser trailer for my new movie shot with the DVX100 tell me what you think...

http://www.modernartpictures.com/214trailerteaser.html

Marc

It has a porno kinda quality to it. I'm kinda glad I have not bought a camera yet.

I'm going to be straight with you here. It looks horrible. I've seen others post stuff on here before and maybe they fix some stuff in post, but it just looks like old school home videotape to me. The credits looked better.

If that's the 24p everyone is talking about, wow.... I'll stay clear of that.

Some dude posted a little commercial/experiment from a XL1 that looked so much better. It also had a few effects from After Effects but that's not why I liked it. The slow panning he did and the overall image looked more like film than this, hard to explain why.
His colors were better and it wasn't as amaturish looking for some reason.

I'm not saying you are a bad director, but either that camera sucks, or the lighting was done completely wrong and washed everything out. If I was to shoot something with a GL2 or Vx1000 that looked like that, I just might give up on being a filmmaker because ther's no way I myself would be satisfied by that footage.
That's me personally. I'm not trying to bring you down, I just have a certain eye for quality, and I don't see it here.

I'm not sure what they used, but if you want to see a good quality film check out the final contestants in project greenlight.

www.projectgreenlight.com

Check out the film by Joe Otting - Chicago, IL

I'm saying that I'd be happy to make a movie look like that quality wise.

It didn't win the contest but had the best looking one in the bunch.

The winners used a worse quality film but had good special effects with humor.

It looks pretty good to me, Marc. Quite professional. The footage looks smooth and "filmic", at least at that resolution. Good music teaser, too. It made me want to see the whole thing.

If I had to make any suggestions (and these are really picayune) not having seen the whole film (of course) and not knowing what footage you have, it would be as follows.

1. I might have chosen a different shot of the father(?), perhaps catching a moment when he moved his gaze up from his drink on the bar to someone across from him. Just a shot that gives us a glimpse of tired pain in his eyes, if that's consistent with the story.

2. The final shot of the mother(?) with that slight, pained smile might have been more powerful as a 2-shot showing the son(?) slightly out of the focus field with his head down a bit against his clasped hands holding the cigarette.

But these are just my off-the-cuff impressions knowing nothing about the actual film.

What I think I gleaned from the trailer was that this is a story about a disfunctional family at risk of liver and lung disease <g>. Am I close? When will the whole film be finished and where can we see it?

I'll second Ken on the quality. Looks real nice to me. . .maybe Bob saw a different trailer?

Nice job, Marc. I especially like the lighting in the bar.

The trailer's a success in that I want to see the rest of the film...

>>If I was to shoot something with a GL2 or Vx1000 that looked like that, I just might give up on being a filmmaker<<

Looks good to me...I guess I need to give up filmmaking now...

Looked very nice here too! Very interested to see the rest indeed.

Very nice work!

I don't know as well were Bob is coming from. Perhaps is player
was screwing up or something?

Look, go compare it to some other things and I guess you'll see my reasonings for not liking the quality. I think it's mainly the dark layer over the film.

If you don't compare it to projectgreenlight, then you can't have an idea of what I am comparing it to.

Bobs running a 486 with a 2 meg intergraded videocard. Heck, even the icons on his desktop look terrible. I'm mainly suprised he waited the time it took to load the clip on his 9600 baud modem.



LoL, on a serious note Bob, you were a bit harsh- granted I haven't seen the trailer yet, as I'm viewing these forums at work and their media player is from the dark-ages. I saw some of Marc's other work and it looked pretty good to me. Now it's not professional quality, but who is expecting that. They guy is trying to get started with this whole filmaking thing. Maybe you can add some more "constructive" critism rather than tear him down. And honestly it's a bit rough to compare him against freikin' finalists at Project Greenlight- those guys were weeded out of thousands. The best of the best of the BEST.

Marc, I'll check it out as soon as I get home and provide some insite.

I'm actually excited to see a young filmaker working with the same camera I own- kinda gives me inspiration.
Now I'm even more reluctant to post any of my work on the board- I might get flamed!

Well, I have to agree with Bob to a degree, but I don't think it's the camera. The thing I reacted to was that the framing is off, and that the images are to close. Then, the lighting is flat and removes all the "3D" feel. The bar room was alright, but the lighting is still a little flat and the framing is off.

And last, the trailer itself didn't make me interested in this movie at all, maybe if you had more shots and a little more conflict it would be more interesting.

I don't mean to bash you, the movie still might be really good, but it just doesn't come across as it is right now.

Remember, this is only my opinion and I could be wrong.

Regards

Akos

You see I'm not the only one who thinks it's flat. I was writing another post, then my modem went out for some reason.

I was trying to explain that the scenes were a bit dark to me. The best scene was the bar scene as far as looks go. I didn't see alot of movement on the shots, if any.

If you want a trailer to draw us in, put a little action in there somewhere. I'd like to see the untouched footage to compare.

>>If that's the 24p everyone is talking about, wow.... I'll stay clear of that.<<

Then I guess you’ll be staying clear of film to, since that’s essentially 24p. Seems to me like somebody has an axe to grind against the DVX100, more so then the trailer at hand. No one ever claimed that 24p makes you into a film master.

Marc,

Can you enlighten us to the settings you used? 24P Advanced, standard, Cinegamma settings, 16x9 crop or anamorphic lens, etc.

Thanks for sharing with us.
Russell

Bob,

Is it the movie in this list (http://projectgreenlight.liveplanet.com/contests/pgl2/director/top10.jsp)?

Ok, finally got a chance to check it out. Talk about teaser- there were only like 4 quick shots of footage. Not really much to base a good opinion on it visually in my opinion. I do agree though that the black pedistol might have been lowered to much. The darks almost engulf the screen. The quick shot of the father looked best lighted. I'd have to see more to really guage the quality.
So far so good though, I wish Marc the best of luck with everything.

Yes, he's in that list, Joe Otting.

I absolutely do not have an axe to grind with a camera I've never used. Personally, I've seenthe XL1S have much better results, from someone on this board I believe, somewhere....

I'd admit I'm leaning toward a GL2, but it depends. Will a really higher end camera really make a difference?

Like Varicam? Maybe that's a bit high, but what about the higher end $4000 JVC DV cams? They don't look consumer friendly is all.

Bob, I asume that you want to make film, since I'm about to invest in a camera myself I've been reading boards, reviews and compared footage like crazy the last week. I was actually set on the XL1s from the beginning, but in the end, I've decided that I will go with the Panasonic DVX100 as soon as I get the money.

Just as you pointed out, you can get really good looking footage with the XL1s, but you have to have very good lighting in order to get that. And if you look at the outdoor scene with the bridge, in the footage you saw, it still looks a little video-ish and the guy actually use lighting in that scene if I'm not mistaken. If you look at the DVX100 in comparison it will look more like film even without lighting in the day scenes, of course one have to light the darker/night scenes no matter what.

To your question about bigger chips, I was an assistant director on a low budget feature and we shoot with a Sony DSR500, it has a 2/3 chip, if you release your movie in the theaters, you'll probably notice that it is sharper, but since it wasn't very well lit, becuase of time constraints, it still looked video-ish. I'll bet the DVX100 would have done a better job, but this was 2 years ago.

So from my point of view, I will be able to achieve more of a film look more easily, with the DVX100 than with an XL1s or GL2.

Of course you have pros and cons with both, like what about DOF vs little DOF, resolution, Frame Mode vs true progressive scan, 24fps etc. And the XL2 launch is still more than a year away and I can't wait that long.

Well, I was saving for the GL2 and I think that with a steadicam/glidecam, lights, and good movement, editing it would be just as effective as the Panasonic after all said and done.

Let's say you take both cameras.....

Record both at max fps, might be 60 right???

Then after you are done editing it, compress it to 24fps Progressive using Vegas 4.

I think the Canon might have the edge on overall picture quality, no?

Anytime you take a non-progressive image (GL2, XL1s) and make it progressive in post (Magic Bullet, Twixtor, etc.) you are loosing resolution. Keep that in mind....

<<<--

Let's say you take both cameras.....

Record both at max fps, might be 60 right???

Then after you are done editing it, compress it to 24fps Progressive using Vegas 4.

I think the Canon might have the edge on overall picture quality, no? -->>>

Canon having edge over image quality? Since when? And what Canon are you comparing it to? I own a GL-1 and DVX100, and despite the fact the GL-1 makes beautiful video it cant compare against the DVX100 even in 60i mode. 1/4" ccds vs 1/3" ccds.
You wont be dissapointed if you go with the GL-2 though don't expect to have a "better" picture quality than the DVX100....just ain't gonna happen. lol

Bob, no DV camera is 60fps, unless you talk about 29.97 fps with 1/60s of shutter speed. If your goal is to project it on the "silver screen" you will see the degradation of Frame Mode real fast, plus I've read that the image looks a little out of focus because of that, no matter how well it was shot. Check out the feature film 28 days that is going to be released in the theaters, (sorry don't know the link) it was shot on an XL1s PAL version, remember that it gives a 20% higher resolution compared to the NTSC one. The DVX100 just seems to hold on to the resolution better.

And just as Glenn Gipson says, you will loose resolution that way, the goal is to do as little extra work as possible in post in order to maintain image quality. Of course as long as you only watch it on a 29" TV you probably won't notice a big difference.

ok ok, i have now watched it, so everyone can calm down. *grinz*

First of all anybody who says they can judge the quality of the camera but looking at a compressed video downloaded over the internet is well just speaking crap. Sorry, but that is truth.

Yes a couple of shots had some lighting decisions i wouldn't have made, and again this is an artform, hence no correct or incorrect decisions, just different ones from what others would make.

The black level was fine, it is a fact i have seen with many files, you compress them down they seem to get all the shadow detail sucked from them, and it may have been gamma corrected for a tv display not a monitor, so what.

Akos, you state you can get good looking footage from an xl1s with really good lighting, while the dvx100 can look more film like under worse lighting conditions. I can get a very film like look from my super 8mm camera using the cheapest reversal stock i can find, dosn't mean it will look good. Do a search on the forums for threads comparing professional look and film look, i think you are looking for that. Again just because my car is fast dosn't make it an f1, but hey if i drive it very well, i may look like a professional driver.

ANY camera can look good (within reason) when handled correctly and professionally.

Anyways, back to topic, i enjoyed the teaser, i thought it looked fine, if not good, if i was to suggest some of the decisions i would make, i would say when modelling the faces for some of the shots, like the younger girl, i would either bounce a bit more light onto her darker side, or use a more diffuse light for the scene.

Zac

Can I assume that getting the Pal version is a better idea since editing is going to happen regardless???

I mean, getting the NTSC version is only benefitial if you're going to watch it straight out of the camera. TRUE???

Is it safe to say film looks better not because of 24 fps, but because it's a true picture at 35mm. Heck, even film can look bad though. Some B-movies shot in 35mm or even 16mm don't really have that high end look.

You can only do so much I suppose unless you got high end panavision stuff.

Zac, of course you can get film look with super 8mm, and yes it can still look like crap depending on what kind of framing, f-stop setting, time of day etc. you shoot. I didn't really mean to compare real professional look compared to DV, just the image quality between DV cameras.

If you look at some shots filmed during the day with an XL1s, it will look more video-ish compared to the DVX100. Since I cannot afford a couple of 18k HMI's to over power the sun I have to shoot without lighting, possibly use a flexfill and a sail. Based on what I've seen so far, the DVX100 is closer to a film-ish look from the get go, compared to the XL1s and others. From that point of view, the DVX100 has a slight advantage compared to other DV cameras right now.

Please stay on track with constructive remarks concerning Marc's trailer. Film -vs- video and camera -vs- camera discussions are off-topic.

Bob, yeah getting the PAL version is definitely better, but also remember that all of your editing equipment have to be able to handle PAL, and before you can watch it on a regular NTSC TV, you have to convert it. I read someplace that you can convert it in FCP, but quality is pretty bad, so in order to get good quality you have to go to a professional conversion house.

This one of the reasons I'm going with the DVX100 NTSC version, it has higher resolution so it will still maintains a decent image quality when blown up, plus I don't have to worry about these kind of things.

Oh, ok, sorry, didn't know it was this strict.

Regards

Akos

LoL I don't see at as being bad. It just looks like he didn't set his fade in to 100% and it quit halfway through. The other shots do look nice but still nothing of interest happening within the frame. Add someone doing something. Maybe you need some quicker edits showing the cast off in their characters. But then you would have to change that slow music.

The shots look good other than the dark ones. Trailer needs more work. Just keep it up and give us some updates if you decide to adjust the trailer.


Rob:D

Yea, but can't Vegas 4.0 convert NTSC to Pal and vice versa?

Ken, we are a wandering people, i went on 'walkabout' before. :)

I believe the topic of the camera, and film look does fit in to the dicussion, being an organic dicussion of human nature and not a direct relation to topic at hand in the strictest sense.

But pal + ntsc stuff is off topic.

In relation to the camera and it's attributes, people are welcome to feel any way they want towards it, but don't feel like it is the holy grail substitute for film, if you want the film look, shoot on film, if you believe in your project enough, then others will too, and the money can be found (sponsors, funding, working).

But in the mean time enjoy using what you have to its fullest.

Zac

Bob, I have no idea about Vegas 4, maybe you should start up a new topic though, since they don't like us to go off topic. lol

Did the people who are talking about the blacks thought it was
too dark? My LCD screen here tends to show blacks a lot better
then most CRT's I have seen (computer monitors, not broadcast
monitors)

Bob if you go with an PAL camera living in the NTSC-usa you'll encounter nothing but problems. For one the voltage/plug is different so out of the box you wont even be able to charge the thing. Then the issue of compatability in format making dvds etc.

Sorry for contributing to the stray....

Ok, got it. Done with that topic.

Hey bob, this trialer is certainly not a good representation of the DVX. And to all of you out there who think this trailer has a very filmic quality... you are insane. I agree with bob's first comment, it looks like a porno. Im not flaming the guy who made it, but to tell him it is good is just wrong.

The DVX is just a tool, if you use it wrong it wont look good. And to the guy that said you cant judge quality from a compressed video... what the f**K are u talking about? You absolutely can tell if something is high quality. Go look at a real movie trailer and tell me you cant make out a quality difference.

Bob, the DVX will certainly outperform the GL1... please go out and look for some other DVX footage. And its image quality will be superior to the XL1's. Ive worked with both and prefer the DVX.

To the guy who made the trailer... its great that u made it! Maybe its not good right now but youll never get better unless you keep making them.

-Emery

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one giving my true honest opinion.

Geez guys. . .Marc, what are you working with? I'd say next to no budget, like me (this is not based on the quality of your trailer, but just because a lot of us on here are working with next to no budget), and probably not the most sophisticated of lighting gear. The trailer looks fine! Does not look like porn! The only thing porny about it is that despite the fact that you used the DVX, it still appears to be 60i footage, and not 24p.

I've viewed a lot of people's DV movies when they post "Hey, look at my trailer," or "Hey check out my short." Marc's trailer looks no better or worse than any of the rest, and when the movie I'm working on now is done, in ten million years, it'll be joining their ranks.

When you're doin' it yourself, and you're not surrounded by crews with 20 years experience and HMI this and gobo that, you're not gonna get results that look like a really well-done Hollywood production. His scenes aren't flatly lit, and the shots are fairly interesting.

Power to the little guy Marc! I'm behind you. Peace out brother.

How can one person think it looks bad, and someone else think it looks good???

Isn't bad, bad, and good , good?

This isn't supposed to be opinion. It's more of a fact.

I'l have to show some footage of my old camera and do some 24 fps HD conversion to it and see how it looks.

It was fair. Aside from the sharpness of the video I didn't see anything particularly wrong with it except that there wasn't enough to really make anyone form an opinion. As a teaser, it needed more information. Not sure what the movie is about based just on the footage provided. Nor could I really form an opinion on the direction.

I seriously wonder at people who get such extreme opinions sometimes. Like hate hate or love love. Hardly any movie I see makes me storm out in a rage or swell up with the loving. It takes a particularly bad or good movie to give me a reaction like that.

Well, now that Mr. Wells has established that I am "insane" and Mr. Benkosky has asserted that anyone differing with his opinion is a liar...

Does anyone else have any intelligent, constructive suggestions to offer Marc other than "it sucks, dude"?

Emery, you appear to have the same camera. Stand and deliver some specifics.

I am not saying anyone is a liar. I also don't believe anyone thinks someone else is insane.

When I look at the trailer, something is really lacking. Most times it's hard to say what it is. I was comparing it to a porno because although some pornos have good quality, they certainly don't look like film, unless they decide to spend the big bucks and go 35mm.(Which is rare)

When looking at a piece of video I think that it's not so much "Opinion" rather than fact.

Opinions are for politics, religion, and relationships.

We are talking about what looks professional or not. I just converted one of my old analog movies to a quicktime 24 fps clip. Now if only I knew somewhere to host it, rather than putting it on my ftp server. If anyone can let me borrow some bandwidth I'll be glad to put my own work up.

This work was minimal lighting and edited IN CAMERA. I only added some text to it for dramatic effect. It was also mixed already prior to Vegas 4.

It's 35 megs, good quality. If you watch it, you'll notice the work is much more filmic, yet weak on resolution because of the camera. Perhaps I could have done some color correction, but that's not what I want you to evaluate.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Benkosky :
When looking at a piece of video I think that it's not so much "Opinion" rather than fact.

Opinions are for politics, religion, and relationships. -->>>

...and art, especially art. Doesn't matter if you call it opinion or subjective emotion or whatever.

I believe that most of us at this forum and the rest of the people out there tend to think fiction movies as an artform. And this includes all aspects of filmmaking, including "picture quality" (whatever it means).

You can always discuss the _facts_ about the technical and measurable aspects of a video. But you cannot flame a DV movie's picture quality as crap without seeing if the picture quality supports the overall storytelling.

Many aspects of picture quality are very, very much opinions.

As I think I stated earlier, I dont mean to put anyone down. However, like bob suggested, facts are facts. When it comes down to certain things there is no room for opinion. From a professional standpoint the trailer falls short in almost every catagory. I truley hope that you dont call yourself a professional ken. Do I think you are insane? No, just uneducated. The so eloquently put "porn like" quality is due to its poor lighting, terrible acting, worse cinematography, and un-eventful editing. The trailer feels over dramatic and anti-climactic. The music outperforms the footage and overall production value is just low. Oh and did I mention the awful audio? (not music, dialog)
The scene with the girl is especially bad in terms of lighting and "videoness." I feel like he may have had his master ped too low or he mapped it incorrectly in post. His black point certainly doesnt yeild 16 RGB or 7.5 IRE. Does it need to? Not always, it can be a creative choice. But its too washed out and dark, on my screen atleast (which is properly calibrated)


As bob pointed out, go look at the project greenlight trailers.
They are a good representation of what can be done with video and a relativly low budget. And to those of you who think "well those are the best of the best," is that not what we all strive to be?

"Marc's trailer looks no better or worse than any of the rest"

That just says it all. I certainly hope none of my work looks "no better than the rest."

Josh, dont aim to have your movie fall among the ranks. Aim to be far superior.

The fact is... 95% of what is produced out there is complete garbage. Aim to be that 5%

Im all about power to the little people... Im a little person my self. Im not working on huge budget hollywood movies (yet) but give me a $300 single chip camera and Windows movie maker and Ill make something that will rival this trailer.

-Emery

I have to say, well put Emery. If you're going to bother making movies, look objectively at your work from the most critical aspect.
Good acting can surpass the worst of quality, proof, Blair Witch.
At first they made us believe it was real, although it wasn't it did a good job at creating a realistic atmoshpere of realism.

The acting is what made that film, not style or quality of the picture.

If I act in my own movie and I look at it, and it sucks, I don't throw a trailer together and say what do you think. I trash it. If you are going to bother making films you have to be either the best actor, or the best storyteller, or the best damn cameraman.

El Mariache sucked but it showed that he had talent and it was obvious. I didn't like Dark Star but Caprpenter had talent, thus came Halloween.

Anyways, I'm putting up a small clip of this dumb sketch I did in college. I am making it smaller than I did before because it was simply too huge to download. I'll post the new FTP in the other forum.

Can we please close these threads, i am affraid a few people in this thread are speaking completely out of their ass.

If movies are an artform, then there can't be a wrong or right way to do it, just different ways.

I watched "Friends like these", which i believe Bob Benkosky posted in another thread, Huhmmmm is all i can say, i think a good analogy is starting to creep into a few of the statements people are making here, and that is "Those who can't do, teach."

The thing is, going out and shooting a trailer, editing it, and trying to do something with it says a lot, it says he has got further than 99.9% of all the other movie maker aspirers out there, and it should be encouraged. Never ever put other peoples work down, you may critisise, but not put down because to others eyes your work could be even worse. Get it?

And so what if it dosn't look 100% professional or perfect, go study design, or even simple graphics, an aesthetic can be a wonderful thing that is unique and says something about the author/creator of it, regardless of populous opinion of its' final output.

If you really want to be elitist snob, than i believe you shouldn't be forming opinions or vocalising them at all, because you are so far above us we shouldn't have the right to even talk to you hey?

If you don't like the lighting, why dont you suggest to him a better way of lighting that shot, maybe he can reshoot it and try again, and learn, it is a skill that needs to be nurtured and ultimately learnt, so then you can be creative with it, you got to know the rules before you can break them.

Maybe you could also suggest ways of directing actors, simple hints and tidbits that everyone has to learn, but may not have yet.

If i keep seeing this obvious flaming of someones 'good effort' and their honesty of showing us for some helpful opinions on how to improve their work, i will put in a complaint to the admins, this is an adult place, act like one!

Zac

Emery,
Well, I suppose re-categorization from insanity to "uneducated" non-professional is something.

I hope Marc can glean some tips from your remarks.

In closing my participation in this thread I'll just say this. Whenever someone offers their work for critique by others on a relatively public venue such as this, they expose themselves to a wide variety of opinions and viewpoints. Many come from amatuers and enthusiasts. Some come from professionals, of which we have many among our membership. It's been my observation that the true working professionals here, and in every other field that I've known, offer their critiques in a cordial, constructive and encouraging style. They are secure in their own abilities and accomplishments, and take time to help others. They do not package their criticism in a fist; they package it in an outstretched hand.

My best wishes to you, Emery, and everyone else here on your current and prospective works. May we all have the opportunity to pursue our interests and visions within this field for many years to come.

Ok, man, I give up. You are right Zac. That's exactly what I was trying to do.

Personally in this day and age the "ART" aspect of film will leave you broke in the gutter my friend.

It's all about the $$$$$$$$.

If you want to go make artsy fartsy films, then be my guest, but don't expect to get paid from them.

If I have left out my main criticism.....here it is.

Reshoot the entire thing. Use more wide angles, way more movement, and better lighting, also better frame selection.

I do not pack my critisism in a fist.....it's simply the first thing that comes to my mind, which is not held back critisism. I see it, boom my initial thoughts. Of course he knows he's trying, but man, I started filming with non web sites to help me and no editing equipment. I was forced to do things that no one here has to do to make a decent looking short film or skit.

How about you trying to make credits with no computer.....well, I did it. On and old PC I had a program called Harvard Graphics, which could display simple text graphics. I faded from black onto the computer screen and then faded out. It was hard enough to get the letters straight on the screen.

And forget mixing audio in a decent way. I had to take the original video, hook it up to a small mixer, record the music from CD to tape, or tape to tape, but it had to be perfect in order to sound even halfway decent to be in cue to the movie. If I wanted sound effects, I'd have to mix them in real time as the tape was getting mixed to the other tape.

The reason I am saying this, is because I've been thru alot of trials and tribulations compared to the youngsters nowadays who think they can slam a movie out of their ass. The computer geniuses have it easy compared to how I learned so of course I'm going to be hard on them like I was on myself using no technology. Just suck it up and learn from your own mistakes.

Zac I completely understand where u are comming from. I certainly was never trying to flame any1, nor do i think I did. I comended his effort in my posts and still encourage him to keep creating. However, I dont think its very useful for him to hear "nice job" "good work" "cool trailer." I dont know what level hes at, but truth be told its not gonna win any oscars. I feel its more beneficial for him to hear true honest comments. I think everything i make absolutley sucks and anytime I hear negative feedback from others it only encourages me to try harder.

Bottom line, YES, its an art. No one can tell him what is right or wrong. But I also think no one can argue the fact that there are certain standards of production value that are to be met before we start wondering off into our creative minds.

-Emery

It's also true that just aiming a camera at someone shoudn't be considered art. It's the whole production of choices including music, editing pace and so forth.

He's early in the game here, so of course I think being as honest as possible is better.

Ok, here is what I think, I agree with Ken that one should try to give constructive critsicm as much as possible so that one can learn. On the other hand, my experience is that very few people are honest about these things in the movie industry, except for the audience. So in this case I agree with Bob and Emery.

The audience don't really care wether it's your first movie shot for $10, or your 20th for $20 million, as long as the they get a good feeling and story line. As soon as you shoot a movie to tell a story, it's business, not Art, it is called Show Business, and for a reason, without the business there is no show. If the theater owner cannot sell tickets there is no income and if there is no income you cannot make your next picture, as simple as that.

I also wonder whether the people that are saying nice things actually think so or just do so because they understand how difficult it is to make a movie and therefor cut the new director some slack. The question is, will the new director learn something from it or not, my guess is not. (Of course there will always be people who happen to like that movie, whether the majority does or doesn't) Personally I would prefer an honest opinion compared to a nice one. These are still just opinions but if a lot of people think this way or that way it might be an indication to which way to go. Of course some movies have become classics years after their release, but that is a rarity.

Someone mentioned that he should reshoot I think, I don't agree with that just becuase you cannot put in the same level of enthusiasm as the first time. He definetly should release it, and see the reactions from freinds, family, fellow filmmakers and the audience. After that sit down and analyse the new information, then go out with that new experience and shoot a new movie, and hopefully it will be better.