Hi

I was about to buy a Panny MX 500, but i keep hearing horror storys about it being bad in low light. Some reviews and users say its ok in low light, and some say its poor.
The Panny web site says 15 LUX.

I just want a good picture from my home cam, some of the work would be indoors under household lighting, the rest would be outside, Is this cam upto the job?
Or would I be better off with a different cam Like the Sony TRV 950 ?

Thanks for your replys

Both the MX500 and TRV950/PDX10 have small CCDs with small pixels so the LUX requirements would be higher than cams with larger CCDs and less pixels.

http://www.dvfreak.com/lux.htm
http://www.dvfreak.com/mx5_go.htm
http://www.dvfreak.com/pana_mx5.htm

It looks like the member, lyonhart, from dv.com, has a faulty unit, but hasn't realized it yet. He posted some 953 pics---and that's the conclusions the other members came to.

When the MX500 arrived in Singapore in October 2002, I had tested the cam next to the TRV950. On standard analogue TV and on PC, I saw no significant difference except the price. My wife actually liked the MX500 colours better and saw less grain on the 'grainy*' MX500, compared to the TRV950.

Having used the TRV900 over several jobs, I find the quality of the 950 a drop from that of the famous 900.

* half the users of the Mx500 and those who have seen teh results, including myself, have commented that the 500 is grainy. NO, for example, at +6 digital gain, the MX500 outperforms the MX350 that I have, ie less grain. BUT, thanks to smaller CCD, I suppose, for the same light the MX500 is shooting in +6, the MX350 is only at +3. That is less grain than +6.

So, for Sean, my opinion is that, price and features, the MX500 is really great. Video quality, surely can be improved. For home use, no problems. Noise and grain is there, expect it and own a nice affordable and 'semi-pro' cam. If you buy the MX500 hoping to seeno grain, then... sorry.

Hi Guys,
Thank you for your replys.
This has given me much to think about.......

Frank,
Sorry to be a pain about this, I just want to get the right cam for me.... and not make a expensive mistake....

Thank you for all of these links.....

If your main concern is that the 953/MX5 is not a good "low light" performer, don't buy this cam. Buy a VX2000 instead. However, you are going to miss out on some features, and the small, hand-held footprint. Honestly, if I needed a cam right know for lower light shooting, I would buy the VX2000. But I would also get the audio upgraded. For everything thing else, I would go with the MX5/953. You have to decide what cam will suit your needs to best. Maybe even a good 1 CCD cam might suit your needs better. The TRV70 looks pretty good.

u know, its all good to suggest another camera, but seriously, when you think about it price is only a factor depending on where u are.
Here in oz, it is a $2000 difference between the mx500 and the VX2000....
sure the VX is an awsome cam, and so is the MX500, but the two cannot be compared in price.
even the canon GL2 and is almost $2000 more
I dont know, but for $2000 i would be investing in a lighting rig and a wireless mic system and still have change leftover...

dont get me wrong, there lots of choices out there, but price is a major factor...

personally, im happy wth the footage i shoot on the MX, and my clients seem to like it as my work has doubled since i bought 2 of these babies...

if only they were black....
thing with these cams is that they dont look pro, but they have many features to rival afew of the other boys...

either way, low lighting can suck on this thing if your not careful, i run this at 15+db gain level in extreme low light and im happy with the results, Sure their not creamy smoth, but if u lower the sharpness and clean up the colour saturation its fine...
Any higher (18 and up by using the gain effect or colour night shot) and distortion is CLEARLY visible. 15db is not that noticeable, and most people appreciate the fact that your not using a light..
Just make sure the client understands the compromise between the 2 and let them decide whether you can use a light or not.

Mind you this minimal distortion could be from the fact that these are PAL units and are obviously running different configs to NTSC..
I could be wrong, but n all honesty, the low light shooting on this thing satisfies my needs and i do alot weddings... havent had a complaint yet...

Hi Peter,
Thank you for your reply,

I'm not a pro, I'm just a home user that wants good quality DV footage, and a good all round cam.
The VX2000 is too much money and too large for my needs.
The trv-950 is as much as I want to spend.

I'm going to my local store today with a DV tape, and will test the footage for myself on the MX 500 & TRV 950.

I'll let you know what I think.

Thanks again for your replys

if you want an all round cam, the mx will do you fine IMO.
I dont knwo about price differences where you are.
The GL/XM and VX2k, here in oz, is about a $2000/2800 dollar difference.. with that money u could almost get 2 cameras...
and if u want decent still, depsite the "bad" press, for printing purposes the MX's resolution is fine. (basically i take phorots using that cam as well as video and the fotos are used for covers and slideshows)

in the end its up to how much $$ your willing to spend...

good luck

I'm going to my local store today with a DV tape, and will test the footage for myself on the MX 500 & TRV 950.

Sean, that's a good idea. I've done that before, but with other cams.

If you want a good all around cam, there are several to choose from, depending on how much you want to spend. Personally, I think the MX5 is a better cam than the TRV950. But both of these are very close. How much of a price difference is there? Wait, I'll check their prices at http://www.cameraaction.com.au

MX500 = $2,953.63 AU Dollars
TRV950=$4,090.00 AU Dollars

Hmmmmm....

You will find the MX5 a lot easier to hold than the TRV950. You will also find that the 950 needs a bit less light, but not much. My biggest concern with the MX5 is it's useless viewfinder. The 950's is much better. If you need or want frame mode, you won't get it with the 950. The Pana has it. The video quality is good with both these cams, and depending on the color saturation you like better, that may help you with deciding.

Hi guys,
Thank you for your replys,

Here in Europe I can get a Panny MX-500 for £1099 & a Sony TRV-950 for £1299, From http://www.letsgodigital.co.uk

So there is only £200 between the two.

Hopefully will get to test the cams this weekend, i'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks for all the info....

Which is why we put our location in our profile, easier for discussion involving locality!

Just a suggestion to you, Sean, certainly no obligations. :-)

<<<-- Originally posted by Yow Cheong Hoe : Which is why we put our location in our profile, easier for discussion involving locality!. :-) -->>>

Ok, it's done.....

Oh, that's where you are. My mother lived in a small town in Southern Germany during the war years. She says that she doesn't miss it---she does miss the old Berlin where she was born and spent her childhood years, though.

It's funny that there's such a small difference in price between these 2 cams. Personally I'd go for the PDX10 over the TRV950, but, I still like the MX5/953 better; and my second choice would be a Canon GL2/XM2. But if I needed a new cam for weddings etc, for lower light stuff, VX2000 all the way, baby! :)

I've played with the mx500 for the last five months. Overall it is great in good light. Indoors its footage is very poor. The picture is very dark and grainy even in lighting that would be good enough to read a newspaper despite any adjustment you make. I just shoot for recreational purpose but I would not use this camera to shoot inside an enclosed space.

I filmed some stuff at a circus where the lighting was good and the images were superb. Alas the whole point of having a small camera for personal use is to shoot on the run and bringing lights with you would defeat the purpose of a having a small camera. I disagree people with people who say its not that different to other cameras. A friends old sony tr30 had much more useable images in low light than the mx500.

Yowchoo what is the price of a pal vx2000/pd150 going for in Singapore? its hideously expensive here $5300 aust ( you can get a second hand car for that!). I shot some footage on a vx2000 and was just flabbergasted by the performance indoors. I'm going to SG later this year and would be interested to look for one if its cheaper.

Call me YowCH for short.

The VX2000 is in the range of Singapore $5,000, and the PD150 is more than that. I do not know the exact prices, as I couldn't afford them anyway, but I should be able to find out in a few days' time.

A car for AUS$5,000, yes. But certainly not in Singapore. The permit to own a car is S$10,000!

Thanks Yowch. From the website on B&H in the states they are selling the vx2k for 2600 for pal which is still half an aussie grand cheaper and the ntsc pd150 is 3000 US. Our tv can play both but I wonder how much worse the quality is. If they can put up with it in US and Japan I guess it cant be that bad.
I did read your reviews on the mx500 before buying but I didnt realize its low light was that bad. Trouble here in Sydney anyway is that they arent very happy to let you shoot in store with their cameras unless you promise to buy it.

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Oh, that's where you are. My mother lived in a small town in Southern Germany during the war years. She says that she doesn't miss it---she does miss the old Berlin where she was born and spent her childhood years, though. -->>>

Hi Frank,

You should bring your mother over here for a holiday, as it's really nice. Ive enjoyed the two years Ive been here.
I live outside the town of Ulm. Ask her if she knows it.
What town did she live in?

<<<-- Originally posted by Tung Bui :Trouble here in Sydney anyway is that they arent very happy to let you shoot in store with their cameras unless you promise to buy it. -->>>

Hi Tung Bui,
Thats a shame......
In my local store all the camcorders are out on display, you just need to pick them up and look at them.

I went to my local store today, but they were just to busy to let me do any videoing, i'll go back later in the week when its not so busy.

She lived in Mengen. I asked her about Ulm. She said it's on the Donau, and has a beautiful, large, Gothic style Kathederale. She also mentioned that Ulm got heavily bombed during the war.

Sean, I used to love going down to Saarbrucken on the German/French border. Great rock and roll bars were down there in the late 70s.

VX2000 is about RM8500 in JB, SGD4000 in Singapore
PD150 is about SGD5200
PDX10 is about SGD4200 in Singapore
TRV950 is about RM6600 in M'sia
AGDVX100 is about SGD5400 (without warranty)

Hi Frank,
We are not far from Mengen. The big cathedral here is the highest in Europe - I have climbed the 760-odd stairs a few times - did your mother go to the top of it? Yes the town was heavily bombed in the war - all rebuilt now and looks really nice. We live outside the town in a farming village - it is non-descript other than roman roads and a famous restaurant! We are woken at 6am each morning by church bells which seems pretty uncilvilized to my english ears!
Sean

Hi Joe,
What were you doing over here in the 70s?
Sean

I'll ask her if she climbed to the top. But I doubt it, since it was war time when she lived there. (She lived there because of the war, away from the nasty goings on in Berlin.) She took lots of pictures with her Leica cam, though---until a good 'ol American "trooper" stole it from her, after he tried to do the dirty. I hate wars; and my mother still misses her old Leica camera. She'll be 76 this July.

Hi Frank....

Shame about your Mothers Leica camera, I bet it would be worth alot of money today.

Ive taken lots of photos of the town, I could email you some if you are interested.

Sean.

Pics of Mengen? Sure! e-mail them to me. I'm sure my mother would be interested to see what it looks like now. Thanks.

Hi Frank,

Sorry, I didnt make myself clear, I havent been to Mengen.Next time I drive that way, i'll stop off, and have a look.it's about 80 KM away from here.

I have lots of pictures of Ulm, if your interested.




Here is the web site for the town of Mengen. I couldnt find an English web site-
http://www.mengen.de/default.htm

Wow, those prices in SGP dollars are so cheap when you convert them to Australian. I assume they use pal in SGP like here. That means a vx2k can be bought for 3300aust. It would cost me 5300aust here or 4700 duty free. I wonder why there is such a disparity in prices. I'll definitely be trading up when I travel later this year, hopefully when all the SARS has settled down. Thanks for the reply.

hey tung, i might join u in that venture.. LOL
for a 2grand saving, youve got a decent holiday to boot.. LOL

one thing i HAVE to mention is that its not jsut with video gear which australia suffers exhuberant prices...
Its also alot of electronic musica instruments.

The reason our prices are so high is that as far as teh manufacturer is concerned, is that there is not a large market for these items as opposed to our overseas cousins, in turn forcing prices up so they can at least "make a profit" fomr the small market share we hold here.
Its a crock, coz duties and import tax will NOT come to 2 grand..

to tell you the truth, its a joke...

Hi Tung Bui,

We bought 2 units:

the PD-150 (with local warranty) at about SGD5500 inc. GST and a JVC GY-DV301E at SGD4850 export model w/o local warranty.

All prices quoted by Ho Chee Woe above are quite accurate and reflecting the current market (street) prices.

You could get export models of these 3CCD cams at the following prices :

Prosumer :

1. PD-150 SGD5200
2. PDX-10 SGD3700
3. AG-DVX100 SGD4900 (w/o XLR mic)
4. XL1s SGD5400
5. DV301E SGD 4850 (w/o batt & XLR mic)

Consumer :
1. MX500 SGD 2600 (with photo printer)
2. TRV950E SGD 3300
3. VX2000 SGD3700

1.00 SGD Singapore Dollars = 0.883160 AUD Australia Dollars
1 SGD = 0.883160 AUD
1 AUD = 1.13230 SGD

That's the current rate. 13% better in OZ.

The prices for te high end cameras are about there, for the MX500, the price is SGD2300 with some free gifts, about 2 months ago, should be lower now.

The problem with Australia is the tax. Bringing in a camera to Australia is a no-no, unless you can show the customs that you have been using the camera. I remember helping an australian guy get his MX500 here, no problems so far, but the cam was carried into Australia as personal camera, taken out of the box. It may be difficult to convince customs that the PD150 or the DVX100 are personal (non-commercial) cams, and they may ask for local receipts, else - tax! Please check out with other frequent travellers before buying.

And don't forget the tapes. In singapore, MiniDV tapes can be as cheap as SGD4.50 a piece! I buy Sony tapes (red-packing) at SGD5.00 each.

I travel back to JB (Msia) everyday, bringing along my DV301 camcorder. My partner, carries his PD-150 everyday, in and out too. So far so good. Sometimes, we even carry them in hands!

But, anything bigger than that (the size of VX2000/PD-150), like those shoulder model DSR-250 or JVC DV5000 might be risky.

Hey Sean, just noticed that you're an Englishman in the south of Germany.

I'm an Englishman in the north of Switzerland (about 40km to the SE of Zürich to be exact).

Well, waddyaknow?

Hi Nigel,

How did you end up in Switzerland?

I got a job with a US company that has its European headquarters here. How about you?

Hi Guys,

I got to test the two cams last night (Panny MX500 & Sony TRV950).

The MX 500 was nicer & ligher to hold, but I liked the video better from the TRV 950...

So I think i'm going to go with the TRV 950, as there is not much in the price.

Thanks for all the help

Well, you can't go wrong with the TRV950. You'll gain the lower shutter settings, but you'll miss the frame mode and 16:9. You can never win! No cam is ever perfect. But..., if the MX5 had bigger CCDs, lower shutter settings and a beefier LCD, it would be perfect, or d_mn near.

Hi Nigel,
My Wife also got a job for a US company, I came with her over here, and now look after our 5 month old son.
So i'm a kind of house husband...hehe..

"kind of house husband."

das Gemut!

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : das Gemut! -->>>
Thanks Frank, Nice of you to say so....:)