Anyone yet burning Panny HD to HD DVD or Blu-ray ? I believe that some further compression of the 100 Mbs signal will be required - I think I read that the top data rate for either DVD is about 33 Mbs. Anyone have any experience yet ?

The video data would absolutely have to be compressed further.

DVCProHD at 1080p30 is about 1 gigabyte per minute.

2 hours of DVCProHD is about 120 gigabytes. It would have to be compressed by a factor of about 5 to fit on a 25-gigabyte disk.

At the moment there isn't any way to burn to HD-DVD on a desktop system; there aren't any burners available at the retail level yet (and it looks to be some time before they are) and the media is also not yet readily available as you can only buy discs in 1000-unit blocks.

Many are looking into Blu-Ray as a method for backup/archive since the contents of (3) 16GB cards will fit nicely onto one 50GB Blu-Ray disc. Panasonic will be introducing a 30-disc robotic arm Blu-Ray changer tower with web-GUI interface specifically for those who wish to use Blu-Ray for backup/archive.

However, if you're referring to being able to fully author HD-DVD or Blu-Ray media just like current DVD's that's still not 100% available yet. DVDSP4 can author an HD-DVD but as mentioned before, there's no way to burn a test copy yet, you'd have to go to a replicator for that and most have 1000-unit minimum order requirements. Currently you can author *tracks-only* Blu-Ray disc on a Mac or do limited menu authoring using Sonic Scenarist on the PC, but be ready to spend $20k for the software.

I create HD DVDs out of DVD SP 4.2 using h.264 encodes at 10 mbps.

Burn to standard red laser dye DVD5 on a SuperDrive and play these on Toshiba HD DVD A-1 set tops.

How about using Sonic's (ROXIO) DVDit Pro HD? Will that work instead of Sonic's Scenerist?

How about using Sonic's (ROXIO) DVDit Pro HD? Will that work instead of Sonic's Scenerist?

It certainly looks like BR support for a fully authored DVD is now available for the PC. (Of course we Mac users with Toast 8 can only use BR discs for data - so far) I'd say get it, try it. Certainly looks worthwhile.

In fact, you can get DVDitPro HD for half price - usual is US$500 (about there) - but, if you own any of the Roxio's products, they sell it to you for US$250. That's how I got mine in. Very cheap for a HD BlueRay authoring software.

I've made a HD DVD on a REGULAR DVD-R. You can burn up to 18 minutes on a regular DVD.

I used DVD Studio Pro...and compressed the video using Compressor.

Plays great and looks fabulous on a Toshiba HD DVD player.

Making the HD DVD is not the issue. It is the standalone player that is the problem. Very hard to find standalone HD players right now. Costs an arm and a leg - expensive. Playing it on computer won't be a substitute for testing the video on a non computer based standalone player.

In reading some of the other threads in this site, it seems that some of the HDV folks are having excellent results making HD-DVDs using any one of several of the cheaper authoring programs and standard DVD burners with standard blank DVDs. Apparently the HD-DVD players can read HD-DVD data off of standard DVDs and output it as a HD signal. The only downside is that each regular DVD only holds about 20 minutes of HD content. I believe that they are authoring them in MPEG-2. Has anyone tried this with DVCPRO HD from any of the Panasonic cameras ? I would guess that the NLE would have to convert the DVCPRO HD to a MPEG-2 or H.264 file for this to work.

Very hard to find standalone HD players right now. Costs an arm and a leg - expensive.

I recently bought an HD-DVD player at Costco for $250, and they currently have a Blu-ray player for $450. Not cheap compared to regular DVD players, but not bad compared to this time last year.

Blu-ray burners are selling for about $450 now and Blu-ray capable authoring programs are available from $70-500. 25 GB Blu-ray discs are about $18 each for write-once, or $25 rewritable.

The problem is partly due to the lack of DVCProHD native support on a PC.

Encore CS3 will author blu ray on a Mac, but you need a burner, and they are still pricey

David, I don't understand the previous statement. How does the lack of native DVCProHD support prevents one from creating a MPEG-2 encoded file designated for HD playback?

If I use, say, Canopus EDIUS or ProCoder, to generate a MPEG-2 file (from P2 card or DVCProHD encoded material) at the correct specifications for HD - and then use a HD DVD authoring software to burn that image into a DVD (via a DVD image route) - isn't that possible?

Mark, standalone DVD players plays MPEG-2 encoded video. Not aware of a DVD player that can play H.264 file. (I am not talking of HD-DVD or BlueRay players).

The problem is partly due to the lack of DVCProHD native support on a PC.

I think for more people the problem is lack of Blu-ray authoring support in the latest version of Final Cut Studio, something many were expecting. And there is excellent DVCProHD support in some PC editing applications, so that doesn't have any bearing on producing a Blu-ray disc. Overall delivery is still a pain no matter what you're using, but we're finally getting close to having reasonable solutions.

I've made a HD DVD on a REGULAR DVD-R. You can burn up to 18 minutes on a regular DVD.

I used DVD Studio Pro...and compressed the video using Compressor.

Plays great and looks fabulous on a Toshiba HD DVD player.

I've read that these also will play on the HD Xbox

I said lack of native DVCProHD support on a PC.

However, the blu ray spec, I believe, is h.264. Perhaps I'm wrong on that.

And you certainly can create mpeg2 HD streams on a PC if your encoder supports it. I didn't know ProCoder did that.

However, the blu ray spec, I believe, is h.264. Perhaps I'm wrong on that.

Most current Blu-ray projects use MPEG2-HD encoding, but the format will also supposedly support AVC (H.264) and VC1 (WMV), as required by both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD specifications. I haven't heard of anyone successfully using H.264 on a Blu-ray disc; we're collectively having enough trouble getting MPEG2 to work.

By the way, not sure what you mean by "native" DVCProHD support or how that would have any bearing on using a PC to produce a Blu-ray disc from DVCProHD content. You can definitely edit DVCProHD footage on a PC and render the results out to a format supported by Blu-ray authoring programs, then use that to author and burn a Blu-ray disc. There's nothing stopping anyone from working with DVCProHD on PCs, just the limitations of individual PC programs.

For backward compatibility, MPEG-2 HD is preferred to H.264. As Kevin points out, even MPEG-2 HD is causing us lots of hickups. Don't need to mention H.264 - which few DVD HD authoring programs support today.

I am using Canopus EDIUS and ProCoder to edit and encode DVCProHD material (from P2 card) into DVDitPro HD authoring program. I don't have a problem with that. But, right now, I don't have a Blue Ray or HD DVD burner - so that means I have to dump it out to HD tape and pass it to somebody else to cook it for me. I am waiting for an affordable AND reliable BlueRay or HD DVD burner along with affordable media before taking the plunge. Better still, a dual media burner that can burn both BlueRay and HD DVD ...

TingSern - I am told that if you burn your HD-DVD to a standard DVD using a standard DVD burner, that most of the HD-DVD players will recognize it as HD-DVD and will play it back without problems. You can only get about 20 minutes of HD-DVD per standard DVD, but it sounds like a good temporary option for short projects. Have you tried this ?

Mark - I can burn the HD DVD into a normal DVD. But I don't have a standalone HD-DVD player right now. My standalone DVD player only plays SD video - not HD video. But, my friend has tried it using a Mac - and he says "no problems".

I just finished updating a Toshiba A2 HD DVD player v2.2 but still I can't play dvds authored in DVDSP 4.0.3.

Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

Thanks

Douglas,

It is a Mac, right? I don't have a Mac anymore. I can ask my friend. But first, what are your parameters you feed into DVD Studio Pro? Next - what physical DVD media did you use? Is it a DVD-R or DVD+R? Can you try DVD-R if you are using DVD+R or vice versa?

Douglas,

It is a Mac, right? I don't have a Mac anymore. I can ask my friend. But first, what are your parameters you feed into DVD Studio Pro? Next - what physical DVD media did you use? Is it a DVD-R or DVD+R? Can you try DVD-R if you are using DVD+R or vice versa?

Good question, I think that I used a DVD+r DL and a DVD+r.
I'll try a DVD-r tomorrow.

Thanks

Douglas,

Some standalone DVD players can't cope with DVD+R or DVD+R DL media. Only works with DVD-R media.

TS

Douglas,

Some standalone DVD players can't cope with DVD+R or DVD+R DL media. Only works with DVD-R media.

TS

I just burned the same clip on a DVD-r and it runs smoothly, but I can't still get sound.

I encoded the sound to AC3 2 channels. Should it be encoded to something else?

Thanks

Don't use AC3 ... try uncompressed format - PCM 48Khz 16 bits stereo.

Don't use AC3 ... try uncompressed format - PCM 48Khz 16 bits stereo.

Ok so how do I convert to PCM. Is it the same as Aif or Wav?

Thanks again, we are getting there. ;-)

I did use PCM audio but I still don't get sound. Any other ideas?

Thanks

On PC world, we called that audio file WAV. I am not so sure what the Mac world called it. PCM is Pulse Coded Modulations - the digital audio file used in music CDs. Normal music CD are digitised at 44Khz, 16bits. For video, the standard is 48Khz, 16bits. Can you trying playing a commercial HD DVD on your standalone player to test if the audio is okay?

How did you process the audio for your HD DVD? You used DVD Studio Pro on a Mac? PCM might be specified as input to DVDSP. But what is your output parameters for audio?

I used .aif (PCM) for Mac at 48 khz 16 bit.
It even shows it like that when displayed the DVD details.

Has someone actually done a successful HD DVD using standard DVD-r?

I did a successful DVD that worked on a Toshiba A1, but I can't get this to work with the A2. Even after the v2.2 firmware upgrade.

I suspect the problem lies with your Toshiba A2 then. Maybe it is a buggy firmware?

Test it out on your A1 - if it works, you know where the problem lie.

From what I heard the A1 also had the firmware changed. So the test I did with the first generation of Toshiba HD DVD is not valid with the updated firmware.
I have heard that the new FCS2 can even have menus. When I first tried the A1 you could only play tracks without menus.
I am going to post on a more specialized forum to see what I get. They probably have gone through it already.

Okay, let me know if you managed to find anything then.

TingSern - I am interested in trying to make HD-DVDs using a standard DVD burner, but am unsure of how to convert the DVCPRO HD to a MPEG2 file. What is your workflow, and do you save the MPEG2 as a file and then import it into your HD-DVD burner program ?

Mark:

What platform and NLE are you working on with what DVD authoring program?

All I do is drop a DVCProHD clip into Compressor and elect a HD DVD MPEG2 or h.264 encoding preset.

I am terribly busy with work right now. I will post this to you later. Sorry - to make you wait. Hope you understand. It will help if you tell me what software you have right now ....

I use Canopus Edius Broadcast, Sorenson's Squeeze, and Canopus ProCoder 3. For DVD authoring, it will be Roxio's DVDit ProHD. Basically, after editing the DVCProHD clip, I either use Sorenson's Squeeze or Canopus ProCoder 3 to output the HD DVD MPEG2 video. Sound will be WAV at 48Khz, 16bits. The preset allows the MPEG2 output to pass through DVDit ProHD without conversion. Because I don't have a Blue Ray or HD DVD writer, I output the DVDit ProHD's output into a Disc Image File, which I then burn it to a normal DVD using Roxio's Easy Media Creator.

David and TingSern - Thanks for your replies. I am also using Edius Broadcast, but have not yet selected a HD-DVD encoder program. Procoder 3 Express came with Edius, but I didn't know if I needed a different intermediary program before the HD-DVD encoder program. I was thinking of using the Ulead MF 6 Pro program to do the HD-DVD encoding just because it is inexpensive. Any suggestions ?

Mark,

I don't have ULEAD products - so I can't comment. I tried Canopus ProCoder Express (since it came with EDIUS Broadcast) - but, it is slow compared with Sorenson's Squeeze or ProCoder 3. Especially Squeeze - it will make use of ALL the available CPUs (multi-core or multi processors+multi-core) ... thus saving considerable amount of time to convert to MPEG2. On my system (dual Xeon 3Ghz - dual core) ProCoder Express gets 1.2 to 1.4 real time conversion. ProCoder 3 - on optimal streams can get 0.7 to 0.9 real time (faster than real time - in other words). Squeeze is so far the best - 0.5 to 0.8 real time.

Since ULEAD is cheap, it won't hurt your pocket to acquire a copy and try it out first. If it works and its output is compatible with your HD DVD authoring program - why not. You did not mention your HD DVD authoring program you have.

However, for preview quality - I don't even bother about using software. If SD is all you need for your clients (as opposed to HD) - just connect a cheap DVD recorder (JVC / Panasonic) to your component output and play it back from EDIUS timeline. 10 minutes video = 10 minutes of "conversion".

TingSern - thanks for the reply. I have no time constraints, so I may try Procoder Express for the conversion to MPEG2. My actual "job" is as an anesthesiologist - high-quality video is a hobby for me. The Ulead program advertises that it will author HD-DVD and can print onto DVD-Rs with a standard DVD burner. My only other question is, after you export the timeline to your MPEG2 coding program, is the result just a file that you import into your HD-DVD authoring program ? Also, do you have to specify what compression the MPEG2 program must do to get a file that can be used by the HD-DVD authoring program ? I imagine the the original DVCPRO HD is probably compressed three or four times to fit into the HD-DVD authoring program.

Mark,

Welcome to my world too. I don't work full time as a videographer as well. I am a multi-purpose guy. Part leg in IT world, another leg in photography, one hand in videography (and audio recording) and one hand in .... etc, etc. But I am totally familiar with the demands of videography and have done corporate videos in large quantities.

Back to your question - it depends on what your HD DVD authoring program can accept as input. You have to check ULEAD specifications first - whether it take MPEG Transport stream or MPEG Data (??? - not very sure off hand) stream. One of the MPEG stream has two files - *.mvt and *.wav (or *.aac, or whatever audio stream you have chosen). The other MPEG stream has something else - can't recall offhand. Can go back to check for you. Some DVD authoring program only accepts the Transport stream and some will take both, etc. Since I don't have ULEAD, you will have to check that aspect yourself.

So - yes, the output from ProCoder Express will be one or more MPEG files (one containing the video and another which holds the audio) which will be used as input into your HD DVD authoring program of your choice. ProCoder Express is not that flexible as ProCoder Version 3 - but, I suspect ULEAD will be more flexible in accepting what it can have as input. The key thing to watch out - you don't want ULEAD to do another round of 'transcoding' after you have output your MPEG file from ProCoder Express. Hence, you must make sure the parameters you set up in ProCoder Express will allow the MPEG file to 'pass through' ULEAD without it converting to yet another MPEG file. You will need to read ULEAD specifications to see what it will accept as a "pass-through" MPEG file.

*ULEAD might be able to burn a DVD directly without producing a DVD Image file - but, that's something which, again, only you can tell.

After you read through the ULEAD program specs (and if you are still unsure) - please let me know - and I will try to help you. Enjoy your HD video production then.

Thanks - I'll let you know how it goes. Also, for other viewers, I just noticed that Edius has upgrade specials in place until the end of September. Owners of Procoder Express 3 can upgrade to full Procoder 3 for $ 199. I'm strongly considering that offer myself.

Hold your upgrade first ... put in ULEAD and see how ProCoder Express interfaces with ULEAD - if it works fine for you, and since you have no time constraints, you can stay with ProCoder Express. Of course, if you have requirements to convert other video formats, the ProCoder 3 is a better tool. Since you have one month and slightly more to evaluate this situation, you can throughly test out ULEAD + ProCoder Express combination and see if it suits you.