i'm interested in buying a new camera for a variety of uses (weddings, short films, etc) in the $4000-$6000 price range (my current camera is a Sony PDX10).

my first choice was the Sony DSR-250, but i'm tempted by the JVC GY-HD110U. for the time being, my machine cannot handle working with HD footage (PowerMac G4 w/ FCP 4.5), so i'd probably be using the JVC is SD mode (or downconverting, i guess?). is the JVC in SD mode on par with the DSR-250? how does the downconverting process work? a friend of mine once used a Sony HVR-Z1U, and i thought he said he was able to shoot in HDV mode and import into FCP as SD footage...which supposedly yielded a high quality picture. is that possible with the JVC?

sorry about all the questions, and please excuse my ignorance about this stuff. i greatly appreciate any help.

I own a PDX-10 and a JVC Hd101 (the earlier version of the 110/111), so I can comment on both cams! The JVC has a similar low light capability to the PDX (i.e not as good as most other SD cameras) but if you are already getting away with it on the PDX this should not be a problem. There's no auto focus on the JVC - I do like the touch screen focus on the PDX, and (correct me if I'm wrong) you cannot downconvert from HDV to SD in camera, so you'd have to digitise in HDV and convert inside your edit system. Having said that, the JVC is a great camera in manual mode, much easier to adjust manual focus, exposure, gain etc. than the PDX, the shoulder mount makes it much more stable (it also has no anti-shake system like the PDX). Watch out for poor battery life on the stock battery, so budget for a pro battery kit like the IDX or Anton Bauer. Operationally, its a different way of working from the PDX, but you get a camera which is more professional (and looks it) and shoots a great image, even in SD (i've used it on a shoot with a DSR500 and the footage cuts together easily).
Hope this helps

Hi Jon and welcome to DVinfo! I have a PDX-10, a VX-2000 and an HVR-Z1. The DSR-250 is really the same as a PD-150 repackaged in a shoulder camera form so the quality would be the same as my VX-2000. In some ways this might be considered a downgrade from the PDX-10 which is a newer design. The DSR-250 and its siblings don't do a very nice job of 16:9 so if you want to work in widescreen it's probably not a good choice.

Have you thought about the Z1 as an option? In many ways its like your PDX-10 on steriods :-) The controls and menus will be familiar, but much nicer. Low light response will be about an f-stop better than the PDX-10. The LCD screen is really nice and will allow you to focus accurately if you're only shooting standard definition. The manual controls are much nicer, with a smooth iris wheel. You'll also get footage that will intercut well with the PDX-10.

Like your friend, I shoot HDV with my Z1 but usually downconvert to regular DV in-camera while capturing. This gives results which look a little better than shooting in SD mode.

I too started with a PDX-10, then added a HD-110 to my equipment list. I think alot just depends on what you want in a camera. The DSR-250 is going to have controls that are more similar to your PDX-10 where the JVC operates more like a pro-broadcast camera. Since your not looking at a camera for its HD capabilities, have you considered a JVC 5100U camera? Its a little bit over your $6000 price, but not by much, and it gives you 1/2 CCD's which will give you way better low light capability.

wow, thanks for all the responses. DVi users are so friendly!

yeah, i don't really think the DSR-250 is what i'm looking for. i am starting to consider the Z1 (maybe even the V1?). originally i was drawn to the JVC because it was shoulder mounted, but i guess i shouldn't be to concerned with that. maybe the Z1 with a decent shoulder bracket is a good idea because it can downsample HDV footage on the fly (while i'm using a G4, this should be pretty important for me). so ignoring the shoulder mounted issue and speaking strictly in terms of picture quality, here is what i'm wondering now:

for now on my G4:
z1 hdv downconverted to sd upon import VS hd110 in SD mode

and for the future with a more powerful computer:
z1 hdv VS hd110 hdpro

i'm pretty sure these cameras are in the same ballpark, and it's probably a matter of personal taste. wouldn't it be nice if there were definite answers to these sort of questions?

A correction here, the HDxxx cameras *can* record standard def DV.

wow, thanks for all the responses. DVi users are so friendly!

yeah, i don't really think the DSR-250 is what i'm looking for. i am starting to consider the Z1 (maybe even the V1?). originally i was drawn to the JVC because it was shoulder mounted, but i guess i shouldn't be to concerned with that. maybe the Z1 with a decent shoulder bracket is a good idea because it can downsample HDV footage on the fly (while i'm using a G4, this should be pretty important for me). so ignoring the shoulder mounted issue and speaking strictly in terms of picture quality, here is what i'm wondering now:

for now on my G4:
z1 hdv downconverted to sd upon import VS hd110 in SD mode

and for the future with a more powerful computer:
z1 hdv VS hd110 hdpro

i'm pretty sure these cameras are in the same ballpark, and it's probably a matter of personal taste. wouldn't it be nice if there were definite answers to these sort of questions?

The z1 looks like a toy handycam but that wouldnt matter if you are not doing this work for a living.

yeah, i know the Z1 does not "look" as professional as the JVC. but that's ok, i'm upgrading from a PDX10, so anything will "look" more professional than that.

i'm just wondering about the picture quality. right now, a Z1 fits into my current set up conveniently...but the JVC is in the same price range. so i have to know their image quality is on the same level. right now, my concern is the JVC in SD mode VS the Z1 in HDV mode downconverted to SD upon import (for the immediate future, that is how i'll be using those cameras).

i've read that the JVC has communication problems with FCP, as well...and i know the sony works well with FCP. i'm using FCP 4.5, and i've heard that the JVC requires FCP5...so i'm starting to wonder if the JVC is just a headache right now.

You should also consider that with the JVC gear (including the deck), you cannot shoot HDV and then capture and edit DV with a straight down-convert via firewire on ingest as you can with Sony's HDV2 gear. For a simple firewire DV workflow you will need to shoot DV on the HDxxx camera. If your machine can handle HDV native for capture at least, then you can always down-convert in software before you begin your edit, of course. Just worth a mention, I think, because this lack of down-conversion via firewire is a thing many new users are horrified to discover - especially if they are used to that convenience with the Sony HDV gear.

Hi Jon
Jon i used a Fx1 for a couple of years
loved the pictures in HD The SD pictures were ok
i bought a new JVC HD 110 in March Hooked it up with a IDX Batt> sys and a DR hd100

I LOVE THIS CAMERA when shooting in SD the pictures are GREAT
when shooting in HD great once again

all i can say rating this Camera on a scale 1-10
i give it a 15

Just my opinon

Joe

hey Antony Michael Wilson,

you've made a good point: maybe i should not be so concerned that the sony can downsample because i could always just import the JVC footage as HD, and then downsample withing FCP before i start editing. is that easily done? i'm having trouble finding information about downcoverting from HDV to SD within FCP.

FCP 4.5 can't capture HDV so that isn't going to be an option. There may be some other software that can do this on the Mac but I've never tried. Just be aware that you'd be into some really long renders if downconverting in software on a G4. I've only tried this once on my dual G5 2.5ghz and it took something like 5 hours to convert one hour of HDV to DV. And of course you will end up using twice the disk space since you'll have two versions.

I've played around with the JVC and agree that it's a very cool camera. But look at Paul's earlier post regarding the cost. AFAIK, you will need to spend some additional money on batteries to get reasonable recording times if you go the JVC route. My Z1 runs 4 to 5 hours on the 970 battery however.

yeah, i know i'll have to upgrade to FCP5. and the rendering time is a bummer, but i get paid by the hour!

but the battery issue is something i didn't even think of. now i'm thinking the Z1 is the right camera for me. the camera itself is such an expense, i wouldn't be thrilled about immediately having to spend more money.

yeah, i know i'll have to upgrade to FCP5.

You would need to do this with a used copy somewhere since Apple is now at version 6 and it's only sold as part of the entire production studio bundle. If you're really thinking of downconverting on your G4 you might want to do a test by downloading some HDV footage somewhere and using the newest version of Quicktime Pro. This will give you some idea of the time involved.

I still use my Powerbook G4/1ghz for office stuff like spreadsheets, CAD, etc. but wouldn't want to do anything with HDV on that machine, regardless of the hourly fee :-)

yeah, it's true. i really think the Sony is the right camera for me...the JVC is tempting, but i think it's just a hole can of worms for me right now. i just wish the sony was shoulder mounted. i suppose there are always brackets.

i just wish the sony was shoulder mounted. i suppose there are always brackets.

See: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57910

Sony is supposedly releasing a shoulder mounted HDV camera; a non-working prototype was on display at NAB. I don't think I've seen anything official about when this might happen, although there has been a lot of speculation. It will probably be out of your price range though. See: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91617

FCP 4.5 can't capture HDV so that isn't going to be an option.

Hi Boyd.

I'm only going from memory, but I'm pretty sure that FCP 4.5 HD could capture HDV from the single-chip JVC HDV cameras, such as GR-HD1U and JY-HD10U (which were released a year or two before the first Pro HD camera - GY-HD100).

As these cameras only shot in 30p, I believe that only HDV 720p30 was supported in FCP 4.5 and that HDV2 (1080i) support was added for the Sony camera (and for the later Canon model, of course) in FCP 5. And FCP 5.1.2 added support for 720p24 and 720p25 framerates.

There have been probably (I haven't counted them up, but it's a reasonable guess) hundreds of posts reporting problems capturing with the 24p and 25p framerates, but very few with 30p, so FCP seems quite a stable platform for capturing and editing HDV 720p30 footage.

If Jon is only going to be working with 30p footage, I would urge him to borrow (from a friend or maybe a dealer has an old demo model?) a GY-HD100 and shoot a bit of 720p30 footage and actually try to capture and edit that footage on his existing rig. Then he will know, for sure, what he is getting into (or not).

Not having to pay for an FCP (or computer) upgrade might help offset the cost of an IDX or AB battery (which I believe is a must for this camera).

Boyd Ostroff, just when i thought i was ready to purchase the Z1, you just made my decision very tough. the full size Sony HDV would be absolutely perfect for me! but sitting around and waiting is so frustrating. i needed a G4 laptop a couple years back, but didn't want to buy the TiBook...and i waited for the 15" Al PowerBook for months and months and months. every rumored release date came and went. i'm not looking forward to that again. i'm going to search around the net for possible release dates, because i need to decide if it's worth waiting for. thanks!

You should also consider that with the JVC gear (including the deck), you cannot shoot HDV and then capture and edit DV with a straight down-convert via firewire on ingest as you can with Sony's HDV2 gear. For a simple firewire DV workflow you will need to shoot DV on the HDxxx camera. If your machine can handle HDV native for capture at least, then you can always down-convert in software before you begin your edit, of course. Just worth a mention, I think, because this lack of down-conversion via firewire is a thing many new users are horrified to discover - especially if they are used to that convenience with the Sony HDV gear.

I called tech support at JVC and you can convert HDV to NTSC video in the deck - provided you're using an analog link to your editing system, like component cables. You're correct in that you cannot do this over a firewire.
I edit with an older AVID Media Composer that isn't capable of HD capture, so I'll shoot HDV and down-convert to SD analog. The picture should still look a lot better then if I originally shot in mini-DV, don't you think?
Has anyone tried this with the JVC system yet?
I have a Sony Z1 at work and I regularly shoot HDV, then convert to DV for editing, via component cables. It looks a whole lot better than originally capturing in mini-DV.

You have to look at horses for courses. The JVC 101E we use every day in controlled lighting situations but I would hesitate to label it as a good wedding camera.

It's low light performance is not great - the Z1 being an interlaced camera, is significantly faster, albeit from a slightly higher noise base. It lao features realtime downconvert to DV.

I would steer clear of the DSR250 at all costs - it is really a glorified PD150 and no better than that camera (which was a good enough workhorse) - the DSR 300 for 4x3 work gave significantly better pictures than the 250. The DSR250 is quite old tech now - if you want a shoulder mounted DVCam style camera I would look around the used market for a bargain.

i'm interested in buying a new camera for a variety of uses (weddings, short films, etc) in the $4000-$6000 price range (my current camera is a Sony PDX10).

my first choice was the Sony DSR-250, but i'm tempted by the JVC GY-HD110U. for the time being, my machine cannot handle working with HD footage (PowerMac G4 w/ FCP 4.5), so i'd probably be using the JVC is SD mode (or downconverting, i guess?). is the JVC in SD mode on par with the DSR-250? how does the downconverting process work? a friend of mine once used a Sony HVR-Z1U, and i thought he said he was able to shoot in HDV mode and import into FCP as SD footage...which supposedly yielded a high quality picture. is that possible with the JVC?

sorry about all the questions, and please excuse my ignorance about this stuff. i greatly appreciate any help.


Hey John....looking into your budget...are you ever planning to do HDV...if not then I recommend that you look into the JVC dv-5100U....Its a great camera...and quite importantly it has a bigger CCD than most of its cameras in the price range....its 3 - 1/2" CCD's which works great for low-light conditions....but thats only if you are going to be doing SD...if you wish to HDV then I myself am looking into the JVC gy-hd200 primarily because its additional features...the only think I don't like about the new jvc hdv cameras is the 1/3" ccd but I can afford that as a trade-off.

bandhphotovideo.com

is selling the camera for 6000, but if you look elsewhere you can save a good 400-500 dollars on it....I bought mine from vsa1.com