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-   -   The New XL2 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/area-51/23257-new-xl2.html)

Jim Giberti March 20th, 2004 04:12 PM

The New XL2
Now I realize i'm treading on sensitive ground here and all <g>, but I'm kind of surprised that there isn't a little more healthy speculation going on about what has to be coming immediately down the road from Canon. I know that there's a policy of discretion on dvinfo, but after all, if you can't start getting some sense of what's coming from the seminal XL1 site...where can you?

I mean here's Sony "furtively" leaking out info and then hiding pics. Rumours swirl, ebb and flow, but c'mon...this is the place for a little hand tipping. And i know all about CA's in my business, but this whole thing is more secretive than the Bush administration <vbg>.

For instance, one could insinuate by Chris' recent sale of his XL1 rig (even under the pretext that he's just not shooting anymore) that the XL2 is there, but we can't know about it...just trying to stir things up a little bit Chris.

So come on....how about a little teaser. NAB is a month away. In the music world, with some affiliation as a writer and producer using Roland gear, I've been fed basic info on the next generation of VS digital audio workstations over the years (the evolution of the VS line of DAWs is analagous to the XL). The purpose was, without question, for me to give a bit of advanced buzz about what was going to be released, usually at that years NAMM show, the music worlds version of NAB.

It's healthy to get a buzz going and it's cetainly far enough along to let something reach the masses. These ain't state secrets, they're the other half of what we do...have fun with the gear that we produce with.

So how about it...who's going to be the first to be a source. Hell, if this were Washington, the press would be out of business.

Chris Hurd March 20th, 2004 04:26 PM

Hi Jim,

Actually we've had so much speculative XL2 discussion in the past around here that we finally had to post a policy page about it... and as far as selling my own XL1 rig, well you know I should have done that back in July 2001 when the XL1S came out! So i wouldn't read too much into things like that.


Frank Granovski March 20th, 2004 04:29 PM

I haven't seen any leaks for a GL2 replacement. If I come across info from the Canon's Japanese site, since that's the best place to look for anouncements, I'll be sure to post them. :-))

Jim Giberti March 20th, 2004 05:00 PM

<<and as far as selling my own XL1 rig, well you know I should have done that back in July 2001 when the XL1S came out! So i wouldn't read too much into things like that. ;-) >>

Okay...I'm officially stirring up the waters. I'm going to consider that "winky face" at the end of Chris' post to be the first official leak. Remember...when it comes to confidentiality agreements, the rule is "i don't know, but if I did, I'd have to say--I don't know". <g>

Here's my totally uninformed but one month from NAB opinion: It will be called the XL2.

After 2 years of speculation over at the VS site, we had named the new Roland DAW the VS2480 in all of our wishlist and technical discussions. I knew "confidentially" that the japanese development team monitored that site and all of the international users specifically to design a next generation machine that would resonate with the core users. My friends at Roland US, whom I had written a couple of articles for, told me that a few of us were considered the "grandfathers" of the 2480. It truly was our baby...from all of the key functions and massive improvements right down to the name.

I think Canon is similar to Roland in this regard. They have the technical edge in Japan, but they count on the US users to give them some direction. I think they listen and respond wisely to the marketplace and their users.

That said, here's my second totally uninformed but one month from NAB opinion:
The XL2 will have true 24p, but won't be HDV. I think it will have vastly improved CCDs and maintain the same lens mount. I say this because HDTV is still the realm of the future and currently limited indie film and large screen corporate work.

Canon knows there market, and higher resolution and true, sharp, 24p is more relevant to staying atop the real world demands which are still NTSC and 4:3...although I wouldn't be surprised to see switchable 16:9.

So my basic prediction is the new XL2 will be like a professional version of the DVX100...higer res, switchable pro lenses, 24p, pro body style (although I'll bet it's more balanced ergonomically than the XL1), improved audio and gamma controls...oh, and a real quality VF as a stock item. maybe not the $1500 B&W
CRT VF, but one that's of better quality.

Let's face it, for the money, the enhancements of the XL1s aready make for a very versatile pro rig once you add the pro VF and manual lens. What the next generation needs is higher image quality and 24p/16:9 options.

I think the Canon HDV is an entirely different generation camera, and the market isn't in place to support it yet. The XL series is a mainstream camera and that market is ready.

Andreas Fernbrant March 20th, 2004 05:03 PM

I agree with Jim..

Some buzzing about the XL2 can be healty for Canon. But more then that, it's fun for us (the readers/posters). This is one of the negative things on this otherwhise superb messageboard. We need to talk about the XL2. It's burning a hole inside some of us. And we are mostly adults here, we know that some threads are fiction in certain cases and we wount burst out in tears if we hear something that isn't true. We can be the judges and take care of ourselfs.

Let us atleast use one thread. It could even have the topic, "totally unofficial bogus information about the XL2" with a big warning post on top..

Kristopher Mallory March 21st, 2004 01:00 AM

second that :)
this is by far the bast place for information because the best people are here. i know im still new (and still learning my Xl1s) but my mouth is watering for more info!

so whacha say chris? just one thread. i notice there is a "vegas 5 wishlist" post on the vegas forum prehaps something like that would be o.k.?

Ken Tanaka March 21st, 2004 01:25 AM

We've had an "XL2 Wish List" thread running for a very, very long time. (Plus many other incidental "XL2" threads.) Of course, there's a great deal of irrational Dear Santa stuff in there. But there are many good suggestions, too. Chris has actually presented Canon USA with a printed copy of that thread.

So, while it may be fun to chew the fat on the XL1s' successor(s), the fat has in fact long since been chewed, digested, and passed. There's really nothing more to say until Canon's ready to make its move.

Kristopher Mallory March 21st, 2004 07:14 AM

i didn't even bother searching for that thread because i thought it wasn't allowed. thanks ken.

Don Parrish April 2nd, 2004 06:10 AM

Is it possible that Canon has only one great think tank (or a limited few) in imaging. I am wondering if the focus for their best engineers and thinkers has been for the still cameras that are about to come out and have only recently switched to new video products??

Frank Granovski April 2nd, 2004 06:19 AM

I'm sure Canon's think-tanks know what the market will bare. So when the time is right, that's when Canon will respond. There's probably more money to be made in the picture camera market, and Canon knows its resolution game well. MiniDV, on the other hand, is limited to 540 playback lines. :-))

Joe Carney April 2nd, 2004 01:07 PM

Canon makes those excellent small consumer cameras that probably bring in more money overall than the Xl1/gl2. I'm wondering if they will just keep selling XL1s untill no one wants them anymore?

Chris Hurd April 2nd, 2004 07:41 PM

Joe is quite right, the majority of Canon Video's dime is made on the 1-chip camcorders. Only a small slice of the pie comes from 3-chips. They'll probably continue to sell them until they don't have any more.

Nick Hiltgen April 5th, 2004 04:35 PM

Well here's the xl2 news I heard thus far (failrly legit source) and to be honest I'm not too excited about it.

1) there will not be an XL2 prototype at NAB (boo) but the xl2 will be available in September (Yay!)
2) the xl2 will have 16:9 chips (yay) but what does that mean for hdv?
3)There will be a flip out screen for it (blah)

That's just the news I heard today, I don't know, make of it what you want, it seems odd that canon wouldn't have the xl2 at there booth at nab and then release it 6 months later. Oh well I guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

And I disagree about HDV I think there is a strong and growing market for HDV and that it would be stupid for anyone to manufacture (let alone buy) an SD camera anytime after the next year. Of course that's just my opinion.

Rob Lohman April 7th, 2004 01:31 AM

Keep in mind that most countries are way way behind the US in
adoption of HDTV. Here in holland I don't think any of the national
channels is broadcasting in HD. The infrastructure is non-existent
as are HD TV's in the shops.

So your opinion about why anyone would want to buy SD
equipment might be valid for your country, but it might not be
for a lot of others.

For the extra money it costs to develop an HD camera I'd rather
have an SD camera with built-in harddisk support (instead of
recording only to tape), true 16:9 chips and a manual lens.

John Locke April 7th, 2004 02:14 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman: Here in holland I don't think any of the national
channels is broadcasting in HD. -->>>

That's surprising, Rob. How is it in the rest of Europe? Are the UK, France, and Germany broadcasting in HD yet? Perhaps the Scandinavian countries?

That would say a lot about how compelled Canon feels about pushing HD right now.

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