Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Well, from what I've read so far, I have to say I am underwhelmed.
Had this cam been delivered THREE YEARS AGO, it would have rocked the world.

I hope to be proven wrong and flamed to a cinder, but come on. No 4K. No 1080P@60.
NO 4:4:4. No RAW. 50mbps? $16K?!!! UNDERWHELMED. SORRY.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Did I forget? NO global shutter. From what I see, nothing groundbreaking. Nice follow Canon.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

And $20K, not $16K.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

And still yet, there's the 1DX (rumored to be a 355 mbps beast) here by March and/or another X pro DSLR body video camera in the pipe. Yep, more to come as they say ;^)

-- peer

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Saw the cameras in action today.
60fps interlaced at 720 max. 4:2:2 color space.
Price of a Scarlet X kit.
Was not impressed enough to buy one, and I buy pretty much all the newest cameras when they come out.
It was alluded to that they didn't make the 4k sensor for nothing... but they weren't about to say more on that.
So, obsolete next year at this time?

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Not obsolete for broadcast work. It depends on what you want to use it for.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

While I agree that we were all hoping for more (or this feature set for less money), the bottom line for all of this is picture quality. The vast majority of users of a camera at this price range do not need 4:4:4. Most of their work will exist in a limited environment where the difference between that and 4:2:2 will be so negligible that it's not worth mentioning. Likewise to an extent with 4K, although that does allow for lossless reframing within a 1080p/2K environment. 60 fps at 720p is not ideal by any means, but again, for many users the quality loss will be all but undetectable.

Yes, any of these can be "disproved" by side-by-side full res tests and frame blowups and lengthy technical discussions. But none of this has to do with making beautiful pictures, which is what I hope should be the goal of every shooter out there. I won't pass any judgement on the C300 based on specs alone, or even any of the initial or more recent shorts that have been done with it. I want to test it head to head against the F3, the Alexa and the Scarlet (or at the very least watch properly designed and carefully conducted tests that someone else will surely do) and judge the images on a large high-res display or top-end projector and make my judgement at that time.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

The NEW NIKON D800 camera is exactly what a ton of people hoped Canon would do and is exactly WHY I am so disappointed with Canon.

Okay, so the D800 isn't perfect - but for $3K? Compared to the Canon C300 for $16K?!!!
For those who disagree, that's cool, but as I have said, the C300 should have been delivered at $8K.
Nikon's D800 proves it.

Nikon D800 D-SLR Camera | High Dynamic Range Camera

Come on folks, what I saw on those demo clips looked darn good to me.

AND, though this is far from a done deal, there will be tons of hackers and programmers getting inside
and *possibly* having some cool D800 mods. The camera has USB 3 out. If enabled, we could be recording RAW at 12bit or maybe 10bit S log. Who knows? The thing is, at $3K, that means for around $10K I can put together a whole kits that will do just fine. I have lots of extra money to add stuff I would need even IF I bought a C300.

It really sticks in my crawl that Canon, with what it has done with both the price points of both the C300 and new DSLRs, has FORCED me to move to Nikon. That is not what I wanted, but there it is.

Congratulations Nikon. Not to understate it, but you just handed Canon its *$$.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Jacques, will you be going to NAB this year?

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Yea, I bet the D800 have now made Canon to try rally their troops before their upcoming 1DX release -- its low light capabilities, clean HDMI out, headphone jack, etc. If I didn't have so much invested already in Canon lenses, I wouldn't think twice moving to Nikon -- but for now, I'll wait to see what the 1DX/5D3 will offer.

-- peer

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Hey Chris,

As of now I will be at NAB this year and would love to see you - that is - ...
if you still will talk to me ;-D

Peace, love and understanding (in our own production world way),

Jacques

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

That pretty much sums up my feeling on both the c300 and the new Canon DSLR offerings. BUT I have Canon glass... sigh. At the end of the day I have to remind myself that my clients view and display my work embedded in a webpage.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

I also have near $3K in Canon 35mm glass. Yeah, that's nothing for many, but a lot for me.

After asking about adapters it turns out that you can put Nikon glass on Canon camera, but not the other way. SO, yes, that hurts.

I want to stay with Canon, but not happy by the hobbling of the 5DMK3 and the super expensive, but missing the features it should have for $16K C300. The answers are, sell my Canon glass, take a hit and go Nikon OR, somehow afford a used Red One package or F3. As of now, I am waiting.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

I've been looking at the F3 as well, but that is a stretch for me as for how much I'd want to spend on a cam. It's a wait and see game at this point for me. NAB is close and we may see some other manufactures step up their game in this lower end market.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Sell it. You will fetch a good price for it. There's plenty of young filmmaker wanna bees with their T3I and 60D bodies that would jump at it ... not to mention the pros.

It's this very "oh I feel so locked in" perception that fuels the very thing people are lamenting: Canon isn't producing the camera they want. The best way to get the message to Canon is to hit them in the spreadsheet: buy from the equipment maker that does.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

If the right move is to sell it I will, but I'd probably keep it as a b-cam and stills / stop motion capacity.

I will gladly buy from a manufacturer that produces what I want, but at this price point that doesn't quite exist (yet) the FS100 is the closest to it but the form factor makes me think I might as well go Nikon with an external recorder, the F3 looks and functions much more like the compact pro cameras of the past HVX200, Z1u etc... but it's much more expensive.
The new Bolex Digital looks interesting, we'll see once more footage appears from it.

Wait and see.... of course the 5d3 could be enough of an evolution for me to keep on the canon DSLR, but I've not seen enough footage in the style I shoot to make a judgement call on it.
I think we've all been saying this since RED was first announced: "interesting times" a good reminder that while how the image is made is important, content is still king.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Agreed!

Here's some modest specs for you:

Native EF mount with full aperture control
Super 35 sensor
60p in Full HD 1080p
Dual XLR inputs
16-bit 48KHz LPCM or Dolby Digital Stereo 48KHz
shutter speeds from 1/3 - 1/10000
interchangeable lens mount
frame rates of 60fps, 30fps, 15fps, 8fps, 4fps, 2fps and 1fps
body weight of less that 2 pounds
record to cheap but reliable 3rd party memory cards
selectable gamma modes
No Moire
HDMI Out w/ embedded time code for 4:2:2 uncompressed digital output
$5K

Sound impressive? It's actually been around more than a year now. Aside from the mount, this is the spec list for the Sony FS100.

I don't think Canon is going to announce anything along these lines at NAB, but I hope I'm wrong. I would love nothing more than to hear about a $5K big-chip pro camcorder from Canon that will natively mount my canon glass. It would be heaven. But I'm getting frustrated. This camera should have existed a year ago!

Now I hear JVC is coming out with 4K-for-$5K camera at the end of this month...

Geesh!

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Now that Nikon has bonked Canon on the noggin with the D800 comes SONY with this C300 killer.

Sony Expands NXCAM Line With NEX-FS700U at DV Info Net

At NAB 2012 next month, Sony will shake the digital cinema market to its core. Sony’s answer to the C300 is a 4K Super 35mm update to the FS100. It will be available in June for a provisional $8000.

My source (based in Taiwan) says that the FS700 does 4K via 3G HD-SDI to an external recorder. The FS700 is said to include 3 internal ND filters yet retains the NEX E-mount. Looks like they found some space for those missing FS100 NDs after all!

The slow mo function of the FS100 has been ramped up to a massive 960fps. This is at a reduced resolution. Other slow motion options includes 120, 240 and 480. It isn’t clear whether the camera records internally to 1080p or the full 4K. It is possible internal 4K will come with a paid firmware update. Another question mark is over who will provide the external 4K recording box. As far as I know, one doesn’t even yet exist.

Gamma curves are as the F3. It also has a stills mode (4K is 8MP).

The Canon C300 in comparison to this seems inferior on paper and is more expensive. I wonder how Canon will react with the EOS 4K DSLR also due at NAB. This is one almighty battle. The mooted price of the FS700 is between the Canon 1D X and Canon C300, which is where the 4K EOS DSLR is also expected to fall.

The Canon C300 is a superbly cinema designed camera. But in my opinion it is let down by a price which is too high and specs which aren’t aggressive enough. It is a very expensive way to acquire 8bit 1080p! Sony is pushing hard into the cinema market, indeed the imaging market all-round. Sony recently took a 3 pronged approach to their overall global business, making the imaging division one of these.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Gee, I guess all my 'negative spin' on C300 pricing/value wasn't mine alone.
As someone on another list puts it, I don't want a camera that can see in the dark, I want a camera that can handle LIGHT and HIGHLIGHTS.

Sony, as we all know, can (and I hope will) thump anyone when it comes to producing a solid and price effective 35mm video cinema camera. Yes, there is still a long way from Area 51 to the market, but if anyone can shake up the video for cinema world, Sony can - without a doubt.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

SONY NEX-FS700 4K@$8K is official:

Sony Expands NXCAM Line With NEX-FS700U at DV Info Net

Now, you're not going to record 4K on-board. Expect if you want that to pony up for fireware upgrades at more thousands AND a Gemini or other pricey external recorder. I would estimate $20K to record 4K.
Hmm, only a couple grand more than the C300 which can only do 8bit at 1080P.

Oh, did I mention the NEX-FS700 will do higher frame rates (more than 30P) as well?

Gee, one company might actually be listening to its customers.

Sorry Canon. Thou hast left me greatly underwhelmed, and for that I am sad.

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

Well, the FS700 teaser definitely makes me look forward to NAB even more, (can't remember when so much high-end gear been pre-announced).

-- peer

Re: Canon, OH CANON, thou hast left me underwhelmed
 

FS700 is official -- see links in Jacques' posts above -- so this is no longer "Area 51" territory. It was not a long way from Area 51 to the market, after all.

In closing, I would like to suggest that it's much more healthy (for the OP and for the forum itself) to move on past how much a company has let you down, and focus instead on what gear you're going to choose next. If it's the FS700, that's great -- since the FS700 is brand new, we really need those discussions here. Whether it's that camera or any other, I look forward to seeing you move on up into your next big thing!