Successor to GL2 soon?
 

With the release of the XL H1 (does Canon really think that camera will compete with the FX1 given its price?), does everyone agree that we're bound to see a 'prosumer' HD GL-2 like, FX-1 priced Canon camera? I've heard Canon stopped producing the GL2 a long time ago too. Would they abandon their 'middle' market and just have camcorders priced under $1000 or over $4000?

What's everyone's thoughts? I can no longer deal with the issues the GL2 has been having for me and I plan on making a change in camera line during the 'offseason' from weddings between November and February of next year. I'm hoping Canon puts out something FX-1 like with a few better features (the 12x on the Sony is no good as well as the lack of a film look frame mode).

I was having a side bet with myself as to when this question would appear .. . nearly a week now? I thought 24 hours would have been sufficient!

. .anyways . . . . ..

Well, having "lassoed" me, it would be totally nutz of them to turn me off right now. I guess they would want me to make the step up to the XLH1. Well, I need more budget support, other than the camera buying decision, to do that one. PLUS, newbies will be wanting an HD option that has at least a 75% discount on the ranges for an HD option. PLUS Sony DO have a more budget aware ( like that? Budget aware? . . .my words . . ) SINGLE chipper. PLUS SD will fade away - how long? String time! I dunno.

Maybe Canon are looking at bigger HD single chip, which has full 16:9. Now THAT could be very interesting. What would be the DoF ability for a bigger chip? Is HD on a single chip better looking than the 3 x 1/4 we have now? Discuss?

Canon have the Glass. They have a 20x zoom. They DO have black paint! So the Kool Look is a goer. Plus they must know we are gagging for it! . .and of course we could video in HD and use the option to still deliver in SD - if we need too.

Grazie

Silver paint :( never understood the silver paint I hate it, Oh! or white XL1 and a white lens? I do a lot of outdoor video on wildlife and siver sucks big time and white also. Had to make a camo cover for my GL2. Hope something new would be black. Steve

Doesn't this belong in Area 51? But as long as we started ... The price of the new XL has me seriously worried about how expensive the successor to the GL2 is going to be. The GL series has always had most of the same features of the XL series, but I don't see how Canon can do that now without drastically raising the price. You can't have a $3,000 camera competing with a $9,000 camera. It would be insane.

That is the big question.

Will Canon keep the 3 chip design of the XL H1? Or is there a large single chipper in the works?

I've always been a three chip guy... only a 3 year 'vet'. What would the downside be to a one chip HD camera? Spoon feed me, please:)

In theory, a one chip camera will have less accurate color rendition, but may have better low light performance.

My guess is that Canon will introduce 2 mid-range camcorders: A higher priced HDV model based on the XL H1 and a lower priced SD model based on the XL2. The SD version might even be labeled an Optura.

I don't know who the market would be for a camera like that. I can't imagine anyone who genuinely plans to blow up to film starting a new project on SD right now. I sure wouldn't, not a feature anyway. If I already had an XL2 or a DVX100 maybe I'd consider it, but buy a new SD camera with 24p? What's the point?

Simply put, the Canon XL H1 does *not* compete with the Sony FX1 or Z1. Sony will not lose any FX1 / Z1 sales to Canon over the XL H1. It's a completely different camera intended for a completely different market.

If Canon can introduce the XL2 platform at around $1,500 I'll bet there'd be a lot of takers. I'm thinking take the basic XL2 electronics, a single 16:9 progressive chip, and give it a decent lense with an MSRP around $1,500. Then have the HDV version sit around $2,500-$3,500.

Okay, I'd be interested at $1,500 too, but I don't see that happening. It'd be cool though, wouldn't it? :)

At the Expo, Canon noted that when they introduced the digital Rebel at it's $1,000 price point, they sold more DSLRs in 3 months, than their competitors had sold in the past 5 years. I'm hoping they'd like to repeat that performance in the camcorder arena.

Well, I wanna believe you, but $3,500 for the HDV version still seems way too low because of the price of the XL H1, and a $1,500 GL3 would be a really, really shabby thing to do to all the faithful who bought the XL2. I mean, if you had just plunked down $5,000 on a camera and Canon turns around and offers virtually the same the thing for the price of a rebuilt transmission, wouldn't you just freak out? I would. I would buy Panasonic for the rest of my life, or at least until they pissed me off too. Then I'd buy, I don't know what, since Sony probably wouldn't be around anymore, way their headed. These are strange times.

Realistically, we may see the GL3 HDV at $4,999+ and the GL3 SD at $2,999.

But like you pointed out, what's the point of the GL3 SD at that price? That's why I'm hoping Canon goes for a lower MSRP, I think they'd clean up.

If they release anything that will perform like the GL2 at the same or lower price point as the GL2, I will eat it up in a heart beat. There's no point in HD if you can't deliver it on DVD... for me at least. And the GL2's have some kinks that keep haunting me, at least. I'd be perfectly happy with full-proof GL2's! If there are new options that warrant more $$$, like the possibility to shoot in HD, I'll make that jump too if the cost is not laughable.

Interesting read about HD, posted by another person here somewhere. I saved the link to show clients that request HD for wedding videography:

http://dvxuser.com/articles/shoot3/

All I want is a GL2 with 1080/24p HDV. Don't need interchangeable lenses. Just a Sony FX1 with 24p. That's it. I'd pay $3500 for it. How hard could that be?

I think that's pretty much what all of us want. But with the price of the new XL so high, I'm afraid the GL HDV may come in closer to $5,000 or else it likely won't have all the features we want.

The GL2 was originally like $2000 fully loaded right? A fully loaded XL1s was something like $5000 right? So, 40% of the price of the XL1H would put a GL1H right about $3500.

Who knows. I just hope. If Canon can make 24F with 1080/interlaced CCDs, then we already have that on an FX1 or Z1, so it shouldn't be too much more than one of those cameras. Especially if Canon wants to compete with the FX1 or Z1.

Honestly, if it doesn't have 24F, then why would anyone buy it over an FX1 or Z1?

If I remember right, the original retail price for a GL2 was closer to $3,000. It eventually settled down to about $2,200. B&H now has it for $2,300, and there appears to be some kind of a rebate for $250.

I don't think this is entirely true. The FX1 and Z1 have been used as B cameras or in environments where larger cameras (either film or digital) wouldn't easily fit (e.g., on JAG). I can see where the H1, though larger than the Sony cameras, would be used instead, especially if the image were a little better and 24F were as good as 24p. For the longest time (well, 10 months), the FX1 and Z1 were the only game in town for this sort of thing, but now there are choices, and people who might have considered the FX1 or Z1 despite some misgivings (eg, no 24p) will look at the HVX and H1.

I will concede to you on that point, Lawrence, but I think that particular application is a relatively small slice of the Z1 / FX1 sales pie. My statement there was more or less in reference to the individual buyers, you know, the small shop owners, Joe or Jane Average making the transition to HD.

I haven't seen stats as to who's buying the FX1 and Z1, but because there will be a several prosumer HD choices, Sony's overall market share can't help but drop (possibly significantly), especially since these alternatives appear to be more adaptable, albeit more expensive.

Successor to GL2
 

Does anyone have any idea when Canon will release a successor to the GL2? I'm basically ready to buy a GL2 to use as a second camera for shooting weddings and various sports footage. I own an XL2 but can't really afford to buy another XL2, so I figured a GL2 was the next best thing. If anyone disagrees please let me know what you all suggest. In any case, I'd hate to buy a GL2 only to have it's successor come out three to four months after I buy a GL2. This would be especially hard for me considering the GL2's "age" and I figure to drop 3 grand by the time it's all said and done.

I think you can safely count on the successor to the GL2 being released sometime between tomorrow and the next five years. ;)

I'm not sure if you can compare the models like that. I think a substantial portion of the XL1H price is related to the hardware for uncompressed video and gen lock (and whatever other studio features I might have forgotten).

Considering the competition price points, I'd peg an XL1H HDV-Only model around $7500 MSRP. I figure Canon could probably squeek a $1200 premium over the HD100 based on 1080/24F vs 720/24P and, probably, a sharper lens. That's really a lot of guess work, but hey, its Area 51.

So the XL1H has about a 50% premium over its SD sibling.
GL2 was what - about $2700 at intro? I can't remember.
If - that's IF - Canon uses a an XL1H pricing model on the GL1H, I guess it would come in right around 4K.

So there we have it. The GL1H/GL3HDV will be have a minimum price of $3500 (a given, considering that people are apparently ready to line up at that price point), possibly $4000 and maybe as high as $5000. It may or may not have 24F (I doubt it). I suspect it will have 30F (a carry over from the popular 30/Frame Mode of the GL1/2). It may come out this year, but its looking more like next year.

That's what I love about Area 51. You can read for great lengths of time and often come away knowing absolutely nothing :)

One thing I do know is that Canon will have to carefully set the price and features of the GL1H if they're going to compete with Sony. If its priced at $3500+ without a good 24F mode (meaning 1/48th shutter and proper 24 frame motion), it'll be extremely similar to the FX1. Additionally the HVR-A1 might offer some competition as well. And without some really nice features, some non-pro users will just wait altogether and buy a cheap HC1 to hold them over.

Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

Successor to GL2
 

Good speculation. I suppose I'm going to just buy a GL2 and hope that it's successor isn't released for at least 8 months from now. Hopefully by then I'll have the cash to pick up a third camera.

My friend over in america has had a go at the new canon xl h1 camcorder and if you compare the to the sony hdv cameras he said its nothin like each other hdv camera. He also said the new hdv canon camera is much more its basicly as good as the $50000.00 cameras. this new camera is much better than the fx 1. This camera is capable of doing live shots and where i live. i no some tv channels can wait for the new xl h1 to come out because, well aleast i would say that this camera is way under price.

Ahh...if only I could afford the XL H1...but I'm am limited to my options due to limiting finances.

Alas, that's the impetus behind this forum. ;-)

. . yeah including the statement from Chris that . .


. . Well I know for a "FACT" that Area51 has live spacemen in it!

Nice try Chris! See, even he is trying to pull the wool over our eyes - shame on you - "Absolutely nothing" ! Huh, I for one ain't falling for THAT one!

Hey, wanna join me on a jaunt I'm having? Going to visit the Moon - needed some cheese for lunch . .. and yes, Wallace IS joining me too.

Grazie


. . just corrected the spilling!

These forums help me with my reading and writing skills. I wish it would help with my spelling. Steve

Steve! Just corrected me spulling - thank you - G

SORRY! about that I'am the worlds worst speller. Hope I did not come across wrong on that. Oh sometimes I get a good laugh from the post here also. Good reason to read them.

Steve

my karma practically guarantees that an HD GL3 is right around the corner, because i just purchased the FX-1. just like an updated imac G5 was released the minute i bought the older one.

having a mighty fine time with the FX-1, though. it is really fantastic, and i'm glad i didn't wait. i'd show you, but for some indefinable reason, i'm having major upload problems....

the GL H1 or GL3 will have 3 interlaced chips because Canon has sided with Sonys flavour on hdv which is 1080i and not JVCs 720p. JVC is the only maker of hdv that use progressive chips and it would be suicidal for Canon to release a 24p camera under their flagship XL H1 that use 24f which is synthetic. which would u choose?

so hopefully this camera will come out soon so I can judge it for myself and compare it against the hd100 because Im goin to buy a hdv cam very soon

Hopefully, the new GL3 will be black, like the Japanese version, and as compact as the Panasonic GS400 but with bigger chips and a cigarette lighter---though I don't smoke cigarettes; just the pipe and no funny stuff.

Frank i'am with you on the silver paint! Most of my Canon stuff is SILVER! Not a good choice for wildlife vids and hunts in the outdoors. Canon has great L glass lens for still cameras but.... they are white and I hate to put that camo tape on a $1,600.00 lens. I had to make a camo cover for my GL2 to hide all the silver. My wife has a ZR200 cam also and YEP Silver. My 300 dig camera SILVER. canon please use a black case. Anyone else on our side?

Steve