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-   -   FX1 Out of Stock at B & H (merged with Z1 thread) (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/area-51/65575-fx1-out-stock-b-h-merged-z1-thread.html)

Douglas R. Bruce June 12th, 2006 09:25 PM

Gene, there is NO replacement camera for the Z1 due out in the next 12 months or more.

Contrary to popular beliefs on this forum, the FX1 has NOT been discontinued either.

I live, not only in Japan, but in the heart of Sony territory.
Here in Kumamoto are 2 very large Sony factories mainly turning out Bravia TVs.

My dealer has regular meetings with Sony technical staff and even plays golf with some of them.

I met some of them at the weekend and asked about the rumours around the FX1.

There is no truth in any of them.....
At least not here in Japan. I guess that even the USA cameras are made here - so they should know.

See my reply near the end of the "FX1 out of stock at B&H" (maybe on page 5).

I am of the opinion that the "out-of stock" is directly connected to the american love of dollars! The FX1 is not selling well, so why should a store keep it in stock? Better to remove it and sell a mover instead. Just tell the customer that it is discontinued and no longer produced and you can more easily push another brand !

Douglas R. Bruce June 12th, 2006 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Coburn
.....said the reason they don't list it on their site, and have stopped carrying it, is because it wasn't selling....

That sounds to me like the real reason why these rumours have started.
Dollars and profits!
Why carry a product that is not selling?
Instead of saying "We can get it for you in 2 weeks...." say, "It has been discontinued...why don't you take a look at this XXX camera. We have it in stock now. It is a better deal. etc.etc."

My home town of Kumamoto is in the heart of Sony territory. There are 2 very large factories churning out Bravia TVs here...as well as many other products.
My local Sony dealer has regular neetings with the Sony technical staff here....and even plays golf with a few of them.
I tend to believe the Japanese here at the centre of things rather than someone over in the USA who is trying to make a profit by selling equipment of many brands ....... (I have nothing against making money....but......)

Gene Crucean June 13th, 2006 06:55 AM

I'll check on that Mic next time I'm at Toys-R-Us Fred. Thanks :)

Douglas, thanks for the input. I guess that's all I needed to hear. I just didn't want to buy another one when it's public knowledge that there might be a replacement coming out soon.

Cheers

Shane Coburn June 13th, 2006 10:32 AM

I have a friend in film school back east who gets to test all of the new Sony models against each other (most recently being A1 vs. FX1 vs. Z1). He has given me a lot of advice, and knows an incredible amount about their DV and HD camcorder lines. This is because he has a friend who works on the prosumer-side at Sony in New Jersey (not sure what office or his exact title). I posed the FX1 query to him to see if he could get any info. He emailed his friend and this is the response that came back:

Quote:

Typically, the lifecycle of the pro/broadcast cameras are longer than the consumer versions. Unlike consumers, professional and broadcast buyers like to standardize on technology with a particular timeframe in mind, because:
1. They generally also buy lots of accessories like batteries, chargers, lights, support gear, etc.
2. They buy in phases, over a period of months or years

Whenever the FX1 does go "end-of-life" (which is not currently the case), that does not automatically mean that the Z1U will be discontinued as well. That being said, there is no plan to discontinue the Z1U anytime in the near future. It is selling very well, and it is*only 16 months old (still "pubescent" for pro gear!).

I am not directly tied in to the strategy of the consumer group in terms of product schedules. They came out with the HC1 and we followed up with the A1U. Then, they introduced the HC3, but we have no current plan for a pro version of that camera. So, things do not always have a direct correlation between consumer and pro with respect to cameras.

I didn't know that Apple stopped selling the FX1, but I was aware that they had advertised a very low price for a day or so (like $1999), but quickly changed the price back to $2999. Not sure what happened there, but I have to think it was a mistake. There was lots of web chatter about it at the time; I think it was around April 1, because I actually thought that it might have somehow been an April Fool's prank.

Bottom line: We're always working on new products and new technologies. When a new camera comes out, it does not necessarily mean that an existing one gets discontinued. This is especially true with a new format like HDV, where it is important to build a product family to give the format a solid foundation.

Sean Woods June 13th, 2006 12:07 PM

<i>The FX1 is not selling well, so why should a store keep it in stock? Better to remove it and sell a mover instead. </i>

Curious, where does this information come from?

Boyd Ostroff June 13th, 2006 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Woods
Curious, where does this information come from?

Read Douglas' post above...

Quote:

I live, not only in Japan, but in the heart of Sony territory. Here in Kumamoto are 2 very large Sony factories mainly turning out Bravia TVs. My dealer has regular meetings with Sony technical staff and even plays golf with some of them. I met some of them at the weekend and asked about the rumours around the FX1.

Stu Holmes June 13th, 2006 12:34 PM

I must say, with much respect to Douglas and Boyd, that i do find the statement that the FX1 is not selling well really quite surprising.

-it's always been a good seller AFAIK and it just doesn't seem to tally well with the fact that B&H have had the FX1 on back-order for quite some time now. Back-order implies either a demand for the machine in excess of normal expected unit-sale levels, or some manufacturing or shipping-from-Japan problem. Just seems to conflict a bit to me. - just my viewpoint.

- interesting situ anyway !

Shane Coburn June 13th, 2006 12:49 PM

The report of the FX1 "not selling well" is actually from me -- or rather from a phone salesman at EVS I spoke with on the phone yesterday. See this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=65575

Personally, I don't buy it, but no other credible explanation has been provided for the FX1 disappearing from the shelves of reputable camera stores. Sorry to hijack your thread, just wanted to provide the source of "that" discussion in case anyone would like to join.

As for me, I'm now looking for a Z1, considering most of the stores still selling the FX1 are doing so between $3300 and $3700. Ouch.

Tom Hardwick June 13th, 2006 01:39 PM

And if the life expectancy of the Z1 can be equated to the PD150/170, then it has another 3 years in production ahead of it.

Boyd Ostroff June 13th, 2006 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes
I must say, with much respect to Douglas and Boyd, that i do find the statement that the FX1 is not selling well really quite surprising.

Actually I was just pointing out that others have said this. Personally, I would also be surprised if it isn't selling well....

Jacob Mason June 13th, 2006 03:06 PM

Shane,
I'm afraid your friend was misinformed on the Apple issue.
Apple didn't relist the FX1 at the SRV of $2,999, they completely removed the camera, along with other Sony video cameras from their site and claimed they ran out of stock.
The camera still remains absent from the apple store page to this day.
And as for the FX1 reaching "end-of-life" cycle, I was informed a couple of months ago via Sony that the camera is no longer in production.
Perhaps I spoke with the wrong person, or maybe Sony changed their mind, but recent revelations would indicate that it has in fact ceased production and the reported limited quantities would only reinforce this claim.

Douglas R. Bruce June 13th, 2006 04:31 PM

I took the quotation about the FX1 not selling well from this post.

"FX1 out of stock at B & H"... thread number 75 by Shane Coburn. He states that.........

I spoke with Ryan at EVS this morning (EVS is also out of stock), and he said that he didn't know anything about the FX1 being discontinued. He said the reason they don't list it on their site, and have stopped carrying it, is because it wasn't selling. He went on to say that they even had a couple of returns on the camera from people who didn't like it;


As he has spoken to a person in the sales dept. of a reseller in the USA - I thought that it was reasonable to quote from his statement.
Please direct any questions about the truth in this to "Ryan at EVS"......

Sorry I confused you all by not making it clearer from the start where I had found the information.

Douglas R. Bruce June 13th, 2006 04:36 PM

ooops.... I was a bit slow in replying....seems like while I was waking up others have already replied as to the source of the "not selling well" rumour.

I know that both cameras are very active and selling well over here.
The Japanese police have installed a lot of the FX1 and Z1 cameras in their patrol cars. They like the clarity of the licence number plates on the footage. makes it easy to identify the cars.

Douglas R. Bruce June 13th, 2006 04:58 PM

FX1/Z1 discontinues - a new angle!
 
In the midst of all the rumours let me throw in a new approach to the question that covers most Japanese products.

In Japan most people speak Japanese. Their spoken English is very limited.

I quite often get information in broken English that I find hard to believe....when my Japanese wife puts the question to the person again and he/she answers in Japanese the facts come out different.

The information I get here is in Japanese and is interpreted by my wife - who is an English teacher.
I tend to believe this information, rather than information from a native english speaker who has been informed by a less than perfect english speaking Japanese.

This "language barrier" and all its possible misunderstandings is probably the root of many of the rumours that circulate concerning japanese products.

I also know that company representatives over here in Japan will avoid giving all the facts if they think it is bad for their company...... but they won't lie if you ask them a direct question.

An example I have from last year:
I had been invited by Sony (via my dealer) on a tour of their factory in Kumamoto and see the new Bravia production line.
I asked one of the staff, "So the Bravia TV is made completely here in Kumamoto?"
He said, "NO! We have many components from Samsung in the TVs. We have a very good co-operation with the Samsung Comapny in Korea"

The bottom line is when asking questions and getting answers and 2 or more languages are involved - be careful of conclusions.

Tom Hardwick June 14th, 2006 12:48 AM

EVS had had a couple of returns of the FX1 because 'people didn't like it?' What sort of people are these? Do they order one not knowing anything about the camera other than the price and they like the pretty thumbnail picture they've seen? Are they surprised at its size? Did they think the FX1 was a television perhaps? Did they buy a Canon Optura while they waited for the postman?

Do stores have to refund on things like this - and what happens to the returns? Do hapless, genuine customers get a pre-fondled unit passed off as new?

tom.

Shane Coburn June 14th, 2006 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick
EVS had had a couple of returns of the FX1 because 'people didn't like it?' What sort of people are these? Do they order one not knowing anything about the camera other than the price and they like the pretty thumbnail picture they've seen? Are they surprised at its size? Did they think the FX1 was a television perhaps? Did they buy a Canon Optura while they waited for the postman?

Do stores have to refund on things like this - and what happens to the returns? Do hapless, genuine customers get a pre-fondled unit passed off as new?

tom.

Your queries are precisely why I didn't buy his story. It just didn't make any sense. Just the same, I thought it even more curious that a sales person would actually go to such trouble to support a story like this.

When I asked him why the FX1 wasn't selling, he said that it was because it didn't generate timecode, did not have XLR inputs, and could not shoot in PAL. He said that "professionals" demanded a real camera with these options. Now, I'm not a full-time video professional, but I've been making money shooting things with a GL1 and VX2000 for a couple of years now, and neither of these cameras shoot PAL or have XLRs. Furthermore, one can always get an XLR attachment for the FX1. I can see the timecode argument, but I don't personally demand it in a camera, and I know there are plenty of other people that don't either.

Now before I go on, I'd just like to say that what follows is my opinion. Please don't reference me like I know what the hell I am talking about...
Based on what has been shared on this board, and the other outside information I have gathered, I would perceive that Sony is indeed inclined to discontinue the FX1 and try to distance it more from the Z1. If the majority of semi-professionals are quick to buy and recommend the FX1 over the Z1, and the Z1, being a professional camera, needs to stay in the line for three years or so, than Sony is certainly losing money in the professional HD category -- and will continue to do so. If their "pro" customers aren't buying their pro camera, and are instead opting for a model priced $1500 less, than they need to do some reshuffling. In this way, I don't expect to see an improved version ala FX2, but rather, a) a camera with less features and a lower price-point, or b) nothing between the A1 and Z1.

Shane Coburn June 14th, 2006 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Mason
Shane,
I'm afraid your friend was misinformed on the Apple issue.
Apple didn't relist the FX1 at the SRV of $2,999, they completely removed the camera, along with other Sony video cameras from their site and claimed they ran out of stock.
The camera still remains absent from the apple store page to this day.

Yes, I saw that the camera is no longer available on the Apple site. I wonder if he was confused about something...maybe another web store.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Mason
And as for the FX1 reaching "end-of-life" cycle, I was informed a couple of months ago via Sony that the camera is no longer in production.
Perhaps I spoke with the wrong person, or maybe Sony changed their mind, but recent revelations would indicate that it has in fact ceased production and the reported limited quantities would only reinforce this claim.

Seems that we all have a friend at Sony...haha. Care to elaborate on the details of the conversation with your contact?

Bob Zimmerman June 14th, 2006 10:24 AM

What would be wrong if Sony updates the FX1? I hope they do.

I hope to get a new camera this summer and I'd like to see some updates on what we can probably call the first wave of HDV cameras. Z1, FX1, whatever that JVC was, HVX, etc. The are all good, but I'm sure you can all say, I wish it had this or it did this or didn't do that.

Someone even posted on another board that Panasonic is coming out with a 16:9 DVX non HD. Lot's of talk but something will come out sooner or later.

If a camera is not selling they will improve it, repackage it.

Jacob Mason June 14th, 2006 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Coburn
Care to elaborate on the details of the conversation with your contact?

It wasn't really a detailed conversation, it was a simple question concerning the production of the FX1, to which they simply responded saying it was no longer in production. My reasons for asking the questions weren't a part of an inquiry to uncover a successor, rather to ascertain more information wrt the Apple incident.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Zimmerman
What would be wrong if Sony updates the FX1? I hope they do. ... If a camera is not selling they will improve it, repackage it.

Nothing would be wrong with updating the FX1, in fact it would be widely welcomed.
However, if we follow the rationale you've outlined in your last sentence wrt to a poor selling item and the necessity to improve it and repackage it, then we might as well conclude that if a product is selling well, they'd cripple it, repackage it, and/or probably remove it from the roster entirely. Not too bold of a claim considering it's what they did with the HC1 to the HC3 and appear to be doing with the FX1.
Also, when observing Sony's behavior in the digital camera market, they've reportedly made no plans to provide a successor to the prosumer R1 and instead focus on the DSLR segment which they recently acquired via the Minolta fold and subsequent release of the Alpha100 and a plethora of rebadged lenses.

Boyd Ostroff June 14th, 2006 12:01 PM

Guys, this thread has strayed pretty far from reality and is filled with speculation, wishful thinking and conflicting third party accounts from dealers and "friends at Sony."

This is all fine, but it really belongs in our "area 51" forum, so that's where you'll now find it :-)

There was also a lot of overlap between the "FX1 out of stock" and "Buy Z1 now?" threads, with people posting the same responses to both. Therefore I've merged everything together here so the discussion will be easier to follow.

Shane Coburn June 14th, 2006 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff
Guys, this thread has strayed pretty far from reality and is filled with speculation, wishful thinking and conflicting third party accounts from dealers and "friends at Sony."

This is all fine, but it really belongs in our "area 51" forum, so that's where you'll now find it :-)

There was also a lot of overlap between the "FX1 out of stock" and "Buy Z1 now?" threads, with people posting the same responses to both. Therefore I've merged everything together here so the discussion will be easier to follow.

Good idea, Boyd. I apologize for being part of the problem there...

Bob Zimmerman June 21st, 2006 08:08 AM

I got this e-mail on June 19th:
Thank you for your inquiry for this item:
Sony - SOHDRFX1K - HDR-FX1 HDV Camcorder with Canopus Edius Package

We would like to inform you that this item is now available from bhphotovideo.com.

But it is already out of stock again.

Shane Coburn June 21st, 2006 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Zimmerman
I got this e-mail on June 19th:
Thank you for your inquiry for this item:
Sony - SOHDRFX1K - HDR-FX1 HDV Camcorder with Canopus Edius Package

We would like to inform you that this item is now available from bhphotovideo.com.

But it is already out of stock again.

I purchased it. I went on their site yesterday morning and saw that the FX1 was in stock again, so I called and ordered right away. I was haggling with the guy about the price ($3200), and he said that this was the last one they had in stock. I thought he was just using that as a negotiation tactic, but I guess he was telling the truth. If all went as discussed, I was shipped this camera yesterday and should receive it early-mid next week.

Bob Zimmerman June 21st, 2006 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Coburn
I purchased it. I went on their site yesterday morning and saw that the FX1 was in stock again, so I called and ordered right away. I was haggling with the guy about the price ($3200), and he said that this was the last one they had in stock. I thought he was just using that as a negotiation tactic, but I guess he was telling the truth. If all went as discussed, I was shipped this camera yesterday and should receive it early-mid next week.

Just the FX1? I didn't want the package. But I noticed they were both out of stock.

Shane Coburn June 21st, 2006 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Zimmerman
Just the FX1? I didn't want the package. But I noticed they were both out of stock.

Yeah, just the FX1. I would think that the FX1 and the FX1 Package inventory are one and the same -- pulling for the latter when they have someone who wants to add accessories. I added some accessories, but not from the package. I got an extra battery, carrying case, and .6x Century lens.

Bob Zimmerman June 21st, 2006 12:43 PM

I saw a FX1 at a Apple store once. It was awesome video. You should like it.

Ben Winter June 21st, 2006 02:52 PM

Sony's just frustrated that they're wrong putting interlaced HD chips in their cameras and they don't want to admit it. Sony needs to suck it up and start doing progressive, the right way. They're going kaikaze with the interlaced chip, holding onto it until the very bitter end to shield their pride. For me it doesn't matter if they discontinue the FX1; unless the new model has 1080p, sales will suffer.

Stu Holmes June 22nd, 2006 06:16 PM

FX1 price at B&H gone up about another $100 last day or two.

now $3,299 for FX1 (NTSC).

PAL model on B&H gone up 500dollars (yes) since about 4 weeks ago.
Was $2,999, and now priced on B&H at $3,499.


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