Misconception in AVCHD editing
 

Hello all.

I'd just like to share my experience particularly in AVCHD editing. I have seen a lot of people stating that AVCHD editing is very slow that it takes almost forever to encode or edit. So other people would say that buying a brand new quad core processor will do the trick! Well, I'd disagree on that. It will all vary on the processing speed of your processor chip. If you want to edit AVCHD, you won't need a quad core or P7 chip. You just need a faster CPU processing speed that's all. I have a Core 2 Duo with 2.6GHz and I can edit AVCHD with 1080 videos in Adobe Premiere CS4. Though you will see some lags during editing (which is minimal), its very minor compared to what others say that it's really a pain in editing. So check your hardware, you might not need that new Quad core afterall.

Ian,

What is your processor doing while playing back a clip on timeline. What percentage is it using with AVC footage?

Hi Brian,

I checked out my CPU usage and when I play my AVCHD video in CS 4 when editing, it spikes from 20% to 70%. If there are some effects, then the CPU usage spikes to 80% to 100. Though this really is consuming a lot of resources, AVCHD editing for me is still a do-able task. =)

It's a bit more complicated than that. Adobe finally incorporated workable code with CS4 and it's great that you can get by with a fast dual core with that package. It took Adobe a pretty long time to "come on board with AVCHD". And some folks can't afford the price of CS4.

Sony Vegas is also reputed to be less computer resource demanding than other packages and that works out fine for those who can afford the price of admission there. But it took Sony awhile to get with the AVCHD program also.

But there are other packages that work different, the one I use is a "voraciously hungry beast" for computer resources that packs an awful lot of features into an approximate $100 package but requires a quad core at 2.66Ghz minimum to edit 1920x1080 smoothly. But they were also one of the early ones to accommodate native editing of AVCHD and their package has always been an "all in one" program from capture/import to DVD authoring and burning.

I put up with having to go a quad core machine while many others were putting up with things like proxy editing and transcoding.

The software package I use is Pinnacle Studio 12.1, it's not a "fashionable favorite" but version 11 and now 12 runs very stable on my system and gets done what I need. I'm not into Blu-ray yet (the software is already capable) but render my HD content to HD files I can watch using a media player hooked up to my HD TV, so I may bypass the Blu-ray thing entirely.

So it's a little bit more than seeing if you can "plug in" a faster processor.

I haven't upgraded from Premiere CS3 to CS4 yet, but I did pick up Premiere Elements 7 for about $100 and it does support AVCHD.

I am using it on an AMD dual core processor (4600+) with 4 gigs of memory. So far I haven't found it too slow to edit AVCHD.

Just another option. Rob

Interesting Rob, are you running under XP or Vista ?

RonC.

Hi Ron,

I am running an HP a1730n computer, with Vista Home. I have disabled alot of the Vista stuff, that adds to the overhead. The system is a AMD 4600+ dual core processor with 4 gigs of ram. (I know Vista only accesses 3.5 gigs on the 32 bit system.) I have an NVidia graphics card with 1 gig of ram. I have a separate 750 gig internal hard drive just for video.

The footage I've worked with was from the Panasonic SD-9 at the highest bit rate you can set with that camera.

Working with Premiere Elements 7 and the AVCHD footage I don't find any real problems with speed. During playback of a clip, it will sometimes not play perfectly smooth, but that doesn't happen often on my system. Editing is smooth and playback of transistions are smooth.

I don't have any real complaints about working with AVCHD and Primiere Elements 7. This is one reason why I haven't upgraded my Premiere CS3 to CS4.

Rob

i had some raw footage from some sony XDCAM EX, in 1920x108, it had worked great. the time line was responsive, no probs. do have not export it to see the lenght, no `comforting` in premiere cs4 was necessary if updated.
it ran on XP, intel 2180 and 2gigs of RAM.

wonder if a sony HDR-SR12 would run as smooth. someone has link to a raw footage of about 1 minute or so of lenght from HDR-SR12 to download?


BTW: i don`t see HDR-SR12 in stores any more, retired?

SR12 has been replaced by the XR520

SR11 was replaced by the XR500V (with larger 120GB HDD), SR12 by the XR520V, with some crazy huge 250GB or so drive... While the SR's were great cameras, I'd not hesitate to recommend the XR's - a much larger jump between generations in many respects than I expected. Files should handle the same though.

thnx
as i recall the price was about 700$ for sr12 - now the xr520 is 1200$. wow.

I think the SR12 lower price happened at the end of its product cycle.
When it was first released, the price was closer to the current XR 520 price.
No doubt the XR price will drop in time as well.
I have both cameras, and IMO the XR is a big step up- particularly important to me is the huge improvement in the low light/low noise arena.

I have not upgraded to CS4 yet, I am not sure if Cineform, and the magic bullet plug ins work in that yet.

With cineform prospect HD, can I convert the files to Cineform AVI and then use in CS3?

going to check into CS4 again, and see if its time to upgrade.

yes if a low light is better, that is very important. i bought a canon hv 30 HDV cam, and i am satisfied, but i have a bitter taste because i want a HDD camcorder and a sony to prefer.
i just wanted to buy sr12, but is outdated, and i can not afford 1200$. now i see that my 2.0ghz and 2 gigs could run AVCHD files and i made a mistake going tapes instead of HDD thinking it will be easier.
if no problem can you pass mi for download original file of a 1 minute length, so i can try my computer, or a link to some raw avchd file. have goggled but with no success. thnx

Cineform Prospect HD v. 4 works perfectly with CS3
Cineform software for CS4 is not completely finished, but is fully functional. I just completed a CF/CS4 project.
Magic Bullet Looks has an update for CS4- you can download it on their website.

Thanks everyone, downloading CS4 now

If you are downloading the trial version keep in mind that some features are inactive.

have found some canon raw footage...

edit: ...and tried it. canon hg21: it works OK, do procesor is arround 90% load. it is not as flawless as HDV, which takes only about 30% of proccesors power, it was possible to move timeline OK, and play is responsive in reasonable manor. no comforting or importing of file. computer play raw files with VLC player with no probs.
so XP-x86, premiere CS4, dualcore@2.00ghz, 2gb ram can handle AVCHD files for amateur use.

Sony Vegas works better with Sony cameras when it comes to AVCHD (so I've heard). I edit Xdcam and my SR11 in the same timeline all the time. Full bitrate AVCHD stutters a tiny bit when playing at preview full but anything other than the full 16mbps and it plays as good as the XDcam... nice and smooth.

My computer specs are in my sig.

My experience so far with AVCHD in Premiere CS4. Camera is a Canon HF S10. PC is 32bit vista with a quad core 2.4ghz and 3gb of ram and Nvidia 8800GT. The highest setting in the camera is 24mb and does not edit very smoothly. As you add more clips to the project or longer times it only gets worse.

The playback preview is so-so, sometimes I have to stop and start it again to let it figure out what its doing and catch up. Rolling edits in the trim monitor are too slow to use really. Doing basic cuts is about all you'll really want to do with this bitrate.

Next down is 17mb from the Canon. I found this to rarely hiccup the software, but it does happen, I am able to use all editing tools and have no complaints. This video resolution is still very good DVD quality but not something you're going to burn a BD with.

I dont have any experience with the other lower video settings in the camera. I've seen a couple comments regarding XDCAM, which isnt AVCHD. AVCHD is achieving a higher compression with h.264 so naturally any XDCAM is going to be easier to edit natively.

If you're using CS4, make sure that you update to version 4.1.

Secondly, your graphics card will make a HUGE difference in how AVCHD performs under CS4.1. With an nVidia CUDA-enabled graphics card, CS4 will take advantage of the graphic's card GPU acceleration to provide a realtime editing experience even on a 2.4GHz dual-core laptop.

I thought that Premiere Pro CS4 uses Open GL preview (decoding) acceleration and only natively used CUDA (for encoding) with certain nVidia Quadro video cards (like the CX). You can get CUDA-accelerated previews in PP CS4 with both the 3rd party Elemental and DIVIDE-FRAME plug-ins, though.

Earlier I made a post about not having any problems with Adobe Premiere Elements version 7 editing and play AVCHD files. I wanted to pass on this tip on how I got AVCHD editing smoothly on a dual core processor.

To get Adobe Premiere Elements 7 and Premiere CS4 to edit and playback AVCHD smoothly, make sure you have a video card a GPU. Do NOT use the video card built-in to the motherboard of the computer.

Then In Adobe Premiere Elements 7

Click Edit
Select Project Settings
Select General
On the right side of the Project Setting window, click on Playback Settings
Look on the right side for Desktop Display Mode
Select Accelerated GPU Effects
Click Ok.


In Adobe Premiere CS4
Select Project
Select General
On the right side of the Project Setting window, click on Playback Settings
Look on the right side for Desktop Display Mode
Select Accelerated GPU Effects
Click Ok.

This is how I am able to edit AVCHD on with a dual core AMD processor running at 4600+ with no problems.

Again my system is running Vista Home 32bit, with 4 gigs of ram.
Rob

Say Robert,

I am trying to decide between Elements 7 and CS4. I was weighing more towards Elements as CS4 looked like overkill for me, but I am trying out the trial for Elements and it seems like there isn't that much fine control over each clip. Mind you, I haven't gone deep enough in the program yet (would like to have fine, not gross, control over color, sharpness, cuts right down to the frame, etc...).

How do you like Elements, is it really versatile with the editing and would I miss CS4 once I learned how to use it? Or let me ask this way, can you do really good editing on it, like a movie or music video?

Rob,

Are you sure that within CS4 you are able to select "accelerated GPU effects?" I have a Nvidia 9500GT card with CS4 and do not have the option to select. I think this was CS3 only option.

Hi Brian,

My mistake I meant CS3. I have both CS3 and CS4 each on a different computers. After I read your post I went back and double checked and you are correct. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

Rob

Ronald,

I never tried the Premiere Elements trail version so I don't know what or if things are disabled in the trail version.

You will have control over the cuts down to the frame and the color control does allow for fine control. I've never used the sharpness control so I can't comment on that.

Orginally I had Premiere CS3 and bought Elements to edit AVCHD footage. Since then I have bought CS4 for a second computer and I'm very pleased with it.

Surprisingly Premiere Elements 7 is very powerful. You might download the Premiere CS4 trail and see which one you like best.

Rob

If your computer has a gaming graphics card instead of one aimed at video/photo editing, your rendering times are going to go through the roof. Many articles recommend the nVidia Quadro FX series. I might get the FX 1800 myself.

No problems here editing natively with Sony Vega 8c or 9c with AVCHD at 17mb and 24mbs from Canon HF10 and Panasonic HMC152. I just leave the color correction and heavy effects if any till last. Preview is stutter free and smooth, render is at 100% with Core2duo E8400 3.00Ghz, XP, 4Gb ram, 2 internal sata drives, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo motheroard, ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro Graphics card 512mb.

Happy with pushing color correction, Vegas settings at default 4 threads and prerender ram at 512mb.

No lockups or memory runouts, very happy, forget Magic bullets looks, you can get the same looks with the Sony modules. Although i do use the free AAV ColorLab 6 way color correction plugin the most, highly recommend it.

Cheers Rambo

We have a very similar system Ian.

I’m running Vegas 9c with 17mbs AVCHD files. I used to have a Core2duo 2.5GHz processor and I could not get real time preview without a lot of stuttering. Last week I upgraded the processor to a Q9550 2.83GHz quad core and I get real time previews without any problems, even with the preview set to best and full its only using 28% of the processor. I get the same 28% of processor usage if I edit 50mbs 4:2:2 .MXF clips. The difference is that the 17mbs AVCHD clips will push the processor to over 100% when I apply a dissolve between clips and the preview starts stuttering, whilst the MXF clips still preview perfectly whilst applying a dissolve.

And real time colour correction or FX will push the processor to over 100% when editing the 17mbs AVCHD clips and the preview will stutter. Real time magic bullet makes things even worse and you might be lucky to see the preview updated every 1 second when applying a look.

I’m using two 22” monitors with an ATI Radeon HD2600 Pro graphics card (256mb). I also use 2 very fast SATA drivers with one as a system drive and the other as a project drive. The motherboard is an Asus P5K and memory is 4Gb.

I have to say that if I was editing AVCHD files on my system and doing straight edits between clips I would be really happy. I would only see around 28% of processor use and I can have the best resolution preview on my second monitor at full screen size if I need it. The trouble is that I use quite a few dissolves and like some heavy FX going on like vignettes, grads and colour correction. This makes real time editing impossible, even if I just do the dissolves.

I’m thinking about applying the grads, vignettes and film look on individual clips then rendering them to a cineform AVI file and doing the final edit with the cineform AVI’s . I know this doesn’t leave my options open, but I kind of know how I want each clip to look like and it makes editing easier if I can see what the final clip will look like whilst doing the final edit. Does anyone else work this way or are there any problems by doing this.

Where do you get AAV ColorLab 6 from.

And happy New Year everyone.

I'm also running the dual monitor setup, loving the extra real estate.

My videos don't have to convey a mood so i just CC to get color as realistic to natural as i can or to adjust for the cameras limitations. Shooting on the ocean really pushes the cameras.

AAV6cc offloads to the graphics card so has next to no impact on render or playback speed.
AAV6cc can get from here.
AAV ColorLab

Cheers Rambo