DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Avid Editing Family (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/avid-editing-family/)
-   -   Abandon all hope for Xpress Pro 5.7 HDV out? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/avid-editing-family/96697-abandon-all-hope-xpress-pro-5-7-hdv-out.html)

Tom Kaminski June 16th, 2007 06:42 PM

Abandon all hope for Xpress Pro 5.7 HDV out?
 
Am trying to record out HD footage shot on Canon XH-A1 but recorded in over firewire via Sony HVR 10MU deck (HDV) directly to computer drives (i.e., no Mojo). Am now trying to record HD out. Have tried to do that via direct fireware, and via Mojo. No dice. While Digital Cut and deck configuration are available in SD projects, Digital Cut can't be accessed and deck configuration in "settings" doesn't even show up as an option!

The computer tech I reached at Avid repeatedly said "My Gott!" (he was in Holland) as my system defeated our efforts to make it happen at every turn. The Sony 10MU deck is listed as an option in Avid, but no Canon HDV cameras show up. So I haven't tried to record in or out of my XH-A1. Having read another thread that said Mojo only goes SD in and out, I've taken Mojo -- one of the worst pieces of hardware I've ever worked with -- out of the loop. Still no luck.

Shall I abandon all hope, or is there a codec or something else you know of that might work? Computer is HP XW8200, twin 3.6 Xeons; Windows XP Svc Pk 2; 3.25 (of 4) Gb RAM; 2 TB storage.

Thank you.

Richard Alvarez June 16th, 2007 08:21 PM

Tom I don't work in HD, but maybe if you tried at the Avid Forum? www.avid.com you might get a quick answer.

David Parks June 17th, 2007 08:52 AM

Tom,

For a master layback in HDV you must use export to HDV device vs. Digital Cut. This process rebuilds the HDV transport stream. That is why Digital Cut only shows up in SD. For SD layback. click the 30i tab from 1080i HDV, then Mojo knows to downconvert. But "Export to HDV Device" usually works.

Hope this helps.

Vito DeFilippo June 17th, 2007 10:57 AM

Tom,

You can't use digital cut with HDV.

Open help, type "exporting to an hdv device" and check it out. You'll get an explanation on how to get your sequence to tape over firewire.

Cheers,
Vito

Tom Kaminski June 18th, 2007 01:16 AM

DIO failed to arm.
 
Creation of the stream results in the following and -- you guessed it -- indecipherable Avid error message: "Export to HDV Device completed with an error. Export to HDV device -- DIO failed to arm."

Many folks have received this error message and posted to the Avid forum. No matter what their settings, equipment, etc., they haven't been able to make it work. Unbelievable as it may seem, Avid has simply failed to clear this up, at least as far as I can determine. The tech support person with whom I spoke a couple of days ago apparently was unaware of the DIO issue.

I can find the m2t file and play it within Avid, but it still won't play out to the Sony HVR M10U deck or external monitor.Anybody reading this have any suggestions? I mean, besides employing "flamethrower" in an unintended way and switching to FCP?

Thanks for the suggestions you've made thus far.

Vito DeFilippo June 18th, 2007 08:27 AM

Hi Tom,

Is downconvert enabled on the deck or camera you are trying to export to? If it is, AVID will see it as a DV device, not an HDV device. So you see the deck as enabled, but AVID will refuse to record HDV to it.

Make sure downconvert is turned OFF.

Hope that works!

Jiri Bakala June 18th, 2007 10:06 AM

When exporting to an HDV device, this is what has to happen (and it is not well documented):

Have your project finalized, rendered and ADD some black at the beginning and end of your timeline (5 seconds should do).

Have your HDV device connected via FW directly (no Mojo - disconnect it), recognized by Avid and as some already mentioned, switched to HDV settings. (Also, this device must comply with your timeline format, i.e. 720/30p vs. 1080i - a Sony device will not record 720p ans vice versa).

Have a blank tape loaded in your HDV device and have the device (if it's a camcorder) switched to a VTR MODE. Make sure it's turned ON.

In your timeline select "Export to HDV Device" and chose "Create New Transport Stream". Avid will ask for a location to save this new m2t file - provide it.

Let Avid render the timeline. When it's ready it will initiate the VTR and record the file to tape in the selected HDV format. Since the render might take a while, depending on the length of your timeline, make sure your VTR has enough battery power or use mains.

Once you export and record the project to tape successfully, you can repeat the process WITHOUT the need to render the whole thing. This time you just select "Use Existing Transport Stream" and find your previously saved m2t file.

Good luck.

Oh, I should also mention - don't bother with time code, it will NOT record to any specified TC. The deck will simply start recording wherever it's parked, regardless of what your timeline TC is or whether the tape is pre-striped.

Vito DeFilippo June 18th, 2007 10:13 AM

Great explanation, Jiri. Hopefully that will do it for him.

Tom Kaminski June 18th, 2007 12:12 PM

Avid HDV export solution
 
Thank you Jiri for that detailed explanation. I will try it out this evening. FYI, here is the solution I received from Avid tech support:

_________________

Problem: Digital Cut with HDV project not working.



Solution: Export to Program Stream first then Digital Cut.

_________________

Helpful as ever.

Jiri Bakala June 18th, 2007 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Kaminski (Post 698552)
Solution: Export to Program Stream first then Digital Cut.
_________________

Helpful as ever.

Not only not helpful but even outright wrong. Gosh....$%^&

Zach Stewart June 18th, 2007 12:48 PM

Jiri - how do you view HD out of the Mojo? We are using the same basic set up and i'm about to make the jump to HD here at work. I use Premiere at the house (which has no monitor out capabilities other than firewire thats why i'll probably switch to avid shortly), but here at work I am using Avid XP HD with the Mojo.

I am currently using the component out to an NTSC monitor. It will be replaced when we jump to HD but don't know if the mojo spits out HD through component? thanks.

Vito DeFilippo June 18th, 2007 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala (Post 698577)
Not only not helpful but even outright wrong. Gosh....$%^&

Yeah, that's pretty pitiful coming from tech support.

It states clearly in the help that "You cannot use the standard Digital Cut tool to output HDV."

Though apparently you can transcode to DVCPRO HD then use digital cut, though I've never tried it.

Jiri Bakala June 18th, 2007 12:56 PM

You can use DVCPRO HD codec but then you would have to use a DVCPRO HD deck and export via FW. HDV and DVCPRO HD are not interchangeable.

Vito DeFilippo June 18th, 2007 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala (Post 698586)
You can use DVCPRO HD codec but then you would have to use a DVCPRO HD deck and export via FW. HDV and DVCPRO HD are not interchangeable.

Yes, of course. I wasn't trying to imply that he could get HDV on to his tape by transcoding to DVCPRO HD. But it is a viable way to get HD though firewire if he is unable to use the standard 'export to HDV device'.

Jiri Bakala June 18th, 2007 01:32 PM

Vito, I knew that you knew...:-)
Writing sometimes doesn't translate properly. In either case, you are right about the process. I wonder if anyone has any experience going out to XDCAM HD and recording to disk?

Tom Kaminski June 19th, 2007 01:45 AM

Jiri was basically right -- do not abandon all hope...
 
Jiri, it worked! Thank you very much for doing Avid's tech support job in lieu of that company's exceptionally lame response.

I say you were basically right for only one reason. Avid Xpress Pro 5.7 permits one to add black at the beginning of the timeline, but not at the end! At least that's what the help tells me, and efforts to do it failed.

It wasn't easy. Xpress Pro as often as not did not recognize the Sony M10U deck's signal input, even though I could control the deck with Avid and see the images in Composer, the deck monitor, and my external monitor. So I registered the buffers (regsver32 DVBuffers.ax) and tried again. Error missage: "Export to HDV Device - DIODeviceManager::NewDevice DIO_VideoOput failed."

Bailed out of Avid, opened Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 and easily sent HDV back out to tape on the Sony M10U. Closed Premiere, re-opened Avid, and Jiri's solution worked. The key seems to be the insertion of black at the beginning of the sequence, assuming the proper settings et al. One other key, of course, is getting Avid to recognize the deck.

Why does it always have to be so difficult with Avid? The old "let them eat cake" attitude has not gone away in terms of the prosumer market, and I wonder why the company is so intent in having a position in it. Rather than doing the simplest things, I waste ridiculous amounts of time trying to get the software to work.

Let me just add three things: (1) I'm refraining from relating some mind-blowing information that a tech support person inadvertantly provided. I don't want that individual to be tracked down and fired. But you should have no doubt that when it comes to tech support, there are fewer -- if any -- companies that are more irresponsible to their prosumer-level customers than Avid. "Let them eat cake" is no exaggeration. It is an understatement.

(2) I obviously ain't too bright. Started messing with editing around 1999-2000 using MCXpress. Finally moved to Discreet edit*, a terrific improvement. You know what happened to Discreet. Dongle burned out well after Autodesk quit supporting the program, so I went back to Avid. The guy who talked me into it is no longer at the company. Arrgghhh! Tom, you idiot!

(3) Again, Jiri, thank you very much for your help. You said the information you provided wasn't well documented. Where in the Avid literature is it documented at all? Especially the bit about black at the beginning of the timeline?

Now I'm wondering whether tomorrow I'll have to export from Premiere Pro before I can get Avid to work....

Jiri Bakala June 19th, 2007 10:54 AM

Glad it worked, Tom.

I personally never found any detailed workflow instructions, so it's mostly trial and error method. The black at the beginning of the timeline is necessary because otherwise during the export to tape the first few frames don't get recorded. As for the black at the end, that's another case. The easiest way to do that is to take a few seconds of audio (any) and splice it at the end of your timeline. Then turn the levels all the way down. Done!

You shouldn't have to go through Adobe Premiere to do this. Just make sure that your deck is connected and powered BEFORE you launch AXP. It should recognize it. If not, in your preferences select "Deck Preferences" and there select you model. Sometimes you may have to clear all settings and start from scratch.

Vito DeFilippo June 19th, 2007 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala (Post 699117)
The easiest way to do that is to take a few seconds of audio (any) and splice it at the end of your timeline. Then turn the levels all the way down. Done!

Actually, I find it easier to add an edit on an empty audio track and trim out to add as much black as you want.

Jiri Bakala June 20th, 2007 11:21 AM

Good idea, I have to remember that...:-)


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:24 AM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2021 The Digital Video Information Network