Best movies to watch to learn filmaking
 

give some names of movies other people can watch (like me) to learn the art of filmaking

My examples
Cinematography: Citizen Kane
dialogue: Inherit the wind
lighting: Casablanca
actors: Silence of the lambs
script: the usual suspects and american beauty
Etc etc

A Bug's Live vs. Ants, or Finding Nemo vs. SharkTale for the importance of Story and Character development

Garden State for Cinematography

The Shining for Sound and Cinematography

Epic Movie for everything you shouldn't do.

Primer for story

The Descent for atmosphere

Devil's Backbone and Pan's Labyrinth for just about everything

I could go on and on and on, but I have work to do.

Whats the best dish to eat to learn the art of cooking?

Depends on your interests, tastes, and approach. That's why it's an art.

An easy approach if you are interested, is simply selecting the top academy award winners for each category for the last, say fifty years. That will give you a sampling of what the peers thought of their companions' work. Watch each one for it's particular 'winning' merits, and see how the compare.

I'm with Rich: study what you like. This question is too vague.

I find the process of directing really fascinating, so when I've really been blown away by a movie, I'll try to watch films by the same director.

Netflix can be really useful for this. If you can spend the bucks, DVD sets of a director's works are great.

Seeing the same director take on different stories, work with different actors, etc is really interesting.

Cinematography: The English Patient. I felt like some of the scenes were the actors.

Dialogue: Glengary Glen Ross (Drama) I think Mamet's stage experience gives him an edge, The Big Lebowski (Comedy),

Actors: Ikiru (Never seen a better performance for the lead) It's change your life good.

Script: I'm with you on The Usual Suspects for drama. Strictly Ballroom for comedy.

Epic: I think Titanic was epic. Poor boy, rich girl, love, death, rebirth, sinking ship. I know, I know, it's cliche but I can't help it.

Lighting: I think most movies by spielberg is worth watching for the lighting if for no other reason you don't notice it, you feel it.

Mise en scene: My Darling Clemetine

Lighting and Production Design: Citizen Cane

Cinematography: Ran - Black Stallion

Storytelling: Rashoman

Dialouge: Anything by Mamett ... Let's just cast out House of Games, Spanish Prisoner and the Heist just for examples

Handling actors/performances: Most of George Stevens work

Panic Room 3 disk set BTS
Dead Poet's Society Collectors edition w/ cinematography master class
PJ's King Kong Pre-production Diaries

Every BTS Making of thing ever...stare at what they're doing on set and what they're putting where in relation to the camera. BTS is what netflix is for! You can get the supplementary disks from 2+ disk sets without having to get the movie ;) I buy movies not only based on how much I like them, but who did the commentary and what BTS they have. Unless it's a movie I really like!

I have often thought that I would use Finding Nemo as a textbook example of how to write a good movie script. The editing is excellent, too. I have a six-year-old at home, so have seen that movie dozens of times. I'm constantly blown away by how quickly and engagingly that story moves along. Not a wasted moment in the whole movie.

How to break all the "rules" of filmmaking (at least when you know what you're doing):

2001 - Stanley Kubrick.

First line of dialog: 40 minutes into the story.

The "Film Look": shot almost completely in wide angle, with extremely deep depth of field.

Ambient sound: the most dramatic scenes occur in the dead silence of outer space. No fake "whooshes" like in Star Wars or Star Trek.

Subject matter: Uncompromisingly grown-up, intellectually rigorous science fiction.

Music: No original score, all compositions are classical standards in the public domain.

Scary Villain: a simple glass lens.

Ending: Ambiguous and disquieting. Is it a happy ending? Or not?

I could go on, but you get the idea.

great comment, Brian, 2001 is a mindblower
I would add Godard's A Bout de Souffle to your "breaking the rules" category

Unique cinematography: Requiem for a Dream

Collateral: Movie takes place over +/- 10 hour period and there is no back-story.

_________________________________________________________

Where that hatch closed and the sound returns. Spine tingling moment.

Look farther back:

Disney: Lion King = hamlet

Hate to do it but, Pixar:
Bug's Life = seven samurai
Finding Nemo = pinocchio
Cars = doc hollywood

Monster's inc...haven't found a matching plot yet
Ratatouille, haven't really tried yet.
Toys, I'm sure there's one, but I've refused to look for it.

Don't study it, do it.

"I love to eat souffles, therefore I can cook souffles".

"I love Mona Lisa, therefore I can paint Mona Lisa"

Stupid nonsense, no?

"I watch movies, therefore I can make movies"

sound any better to you?

Practice it by doing it. There's no excuse. Tape costs less than books now.
Cameras cost less than film school

In the time it takes to talk about it, and circle around it, you could have done one. It won't be great but it'll be done.

The next time, it will be better, if you can learn at all.

After a while, and a few movies under your belt, it will be... what it will be.

Will people watch it?

Eat a souffle.
Then make one.
Then try and sell the first one you make.
Will people eat it?
Will people buy it?

Chris ,Just love the way you think.eveytime I read your reply it just makes more sense.

Run Lola Run

Any film with the sound off.

best for blocking
 

Dumbo. I kid thee not.

Your words have the ring of truth.

I do think it's useful to watch movies as a learning tool. But you have to _actively_ watch, just like you need to _actively_ read a book.

I mean you have to notice the techniques being used, including rewinding and watching a scene several times. Focus on different aspects each time. Notice how the scene is blocked, number of setups, how it's cut, how the music cues to the cuts, etc.

I'm also reminded of Robert Altman who said he a lot from every crappy movie he saw. He learned what _not_ to do from lots of movies.

A great way to do this is to take Michael Struthers' suggestion above and watch with the sound muted.

Indeed, one of the required texts when I went to film school at UT-Austin was Edward D. Wood Jr.'s "Plan Nine From Outer Space." It was mandatory viewing because every possible mistake a filmmaker could make is in that movie (except for focus; I have to say that I can't recall an out-of-focus shot in Plan Nine). All of the filmmaking sins are in that one movie: crossing axis and so on. It's an excellent learning tool which I put up there with Citizen Kane considering how much you can learn from it -- what NOT to do, that is.

Fully agreed. I want to point out the reason why I went to film school. My parents insisted that I get a college education and the only major that I felt compelled to put my heart into was radio-television-film. I'm glad I did it and I'm grateful for the education I received at UT-Austin, but do I think film school is mandatory for someone wanting to become a filmmaker, heck no. It was mandatory for someone like me who wanted to finish college by studying something I was fascinated about, that's all.

Here's an example -- this was the syllabus for RTF370: Film Analysis & Criticism at UT-Austin in 1990, a third-year class the focus of which for that semester was The American Dream (i.e., American filmmaking in the studio system during the sound era). Yes, I keep this kind of stuff. The texts for this class in order of their screenings were:

Scarface, 42nd Street, All About Eve, The Godfather Parts I & II, Shadow Of a Doubt, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, Rebel Without A Cause, Raging Bull, Twelve Angry Men, The Wrong Man, King of Comedy, Sullivan's Travels, The Lady Eve, Vertigo and It's A Wonderful Life.

Hitchcock

Rear Window is one of my favorites. Excellent film-making.

Making movies really is the only way to learn though.

Cheers,

Mike

Learning Filmmaking (long post)
 

[Funny, I don't feel like a wise old fart. But I've been doing this professionally, in one form or another, since 1975, so I guess that makes me one, right? So pin your ears back, young 'uns, and get a load of this:]


On the topic of watching movies, well, I think that's a given for all on this board.
We all got here because at some stage, while watching movies (and most of us have watched *a lot* of movies), we went past the "wow, what a movie!" to the "geez, how'd they do that?" and later on "man, I reckon even I could do better than that", and finally "hey, I'm going to look into doing one of my own".

And then, long story short, we finally get behind a camera in one form or another -- and do it.

Or not.

There are plenty of wine connoisseurs out there, far fewer wine makers, and very few professional vintners.
No harm in that, no dishonor. People don't have to make wine to love wine.

Plenty of people love movies, and most of the ones who love movies have an opinion about them, one way or another. That's what they're for.

I'll quote (actually probably mis-quote) Ingmar Bergman in saying that the process of creation, and the life of creativity, isn't all it's cut out to be.

I mean, there's plenty of movies, or TV shows about the director pointing this way and that, and the crews doing his or her bidding, like the captain in a sports team, (and whoever joined a sport NOT wanting to be captain of the team?)

But then you try making one.
Of your own.
A teeny weeny short one, maybe in your own backyard, just to test out the waters. Maybe with your friends or local actors, or no actors at all.

And it's not all roses, is it?

One of my more colorful friends calls the process of filmmaking "shovelling steaming soft sh** up a steep slope with a sharp stick"

Another one, more experienced, said something like this about his first professional directorial experience: "if you can write and get up early in the morning, then you can make a so-so movie. Because the people on the movie with you will simply not let you make a bad movie, because they need for every movie they're on to be so-so at least. But how to make a good movie? A great movie? I don't know. I just know how to write one." (and yes he does, has an Oscar or two to prove it).



They just don't want to make themselves, do they?

And then, finally, you're done.
Your first movie is out..

And you realize - heck, this is just about spending money and time.
It's just like a home movie, only with a story.
You might as well be making a table or a paper doily, only ours costs more to make, in terms of time or money.

'Cause guess what? You won't be enchanted with your own movie.
It's your own movie.
You know all the pimples, and the wrinkles, and every single last flaw that you had to cover up, smooth over, to make the illusion complete.
They get to see your illusion.
It's for other people to get enchanted about, not you.

Thus - you make movies for other people, not for yourself.
Oops.

And then, after you've mulled that one over, you either get into it, or not.
What makes a movie a movie and not a collection of dailies, strung together?
Why are some movies more compelling, others not?
And away you go.

Everybody who watches movies does this. Movies are made for us to do this.
To raise our awareness. To think for ourselves.
But to go through all that pain again, just to make another darned movie?

Well, you still have your camcorder, and all that damned expensive equipment...

So you make another damn movie. Not so short, not so timidly.
You either get caught up in the thing, and go "hey, if I did this, or that, slightly differently, maybe it would be better" - or "what happens if I do this?"

Or not.

If you think, first time round, that yours is the perfect movie, then guess what?
Your next movie will be as good as, or worse than your first. Because you can't get better than perfect, can you?
Or, more likely, if this is a thing you're meant to be doing, and you did it right, guess what? You feel a certain sense of dissatisfaction. You know you could do better next time. Why?
Because the very act of making a film -- makes you a better filmmaker.
Also, hindsight is 20/20.

So welcome to the artist's conundrum. Nothing you do will ever feel good enough, because if it is, you're doomed to repeat yourself, and then it's time to leav and try something new..
So there's always this mixed feeling of deep accomplishment and deeper frustration that keeps you going onto the next movie, knowing full well that you'll never quite touch that rainbow.
As I've said, it's not exactly the bed of roses it's cut out to be.


So better to get out there and make one, right now, today, and start finding out if this really is for you or not.


Point is, like anything else, you really don't know, at the starting gate, if you're going to be any good at it or not.
You think you might, but then you realize that, as with anything else, you're going to have to throw in a bunch of time and money (read movies) to find out if you're really any good at this or not. I'd say maybe a dozen short films at least.
If by your 12th movie you still don't know, time to move in.

It also doesn't take too long to figure out that any clown can point an automatic camera at anything and get a shot, same as you can.
People can make rookie movies anytime - that's why they're called rookie movies.
But... are they really the same? I mean, even Spielberg and Coppola eventually point cameras and get shots too. We're all doing the same thing, more or less.
So what's more, and what's less? What's theirs doing that ours isn't?

Heck, how can you even tell what's good and what isn't?
Think you can get that from film school? Think again.
All you can get there is what somebody else thinks is good, or not.
You have to get what's inside, yourself.

And this is why and where the film watching comes in.
A lot of them, good or bad, it doesn't matter.
Because it's not about knowing more than it's about feeling.

Because in the end, if it's you controlling the camera, out of many choices of where to put it and what to point it at, ultimately it's going to shoot what, to you, looks and feels best.
The other guy won't do it your way, because he'll be doing it *his* way.
And that's why we all want to do this.
Everybody wants to be successful. To express our inner feelings. To achieve our inner potentials, all that good stuff.

Film making is just about spending money and time to make shows, right?
Maybe so.

But for some of us, it takes us, grabs us by the whatnots, and won't let go.
And then we start to live it, every moment of every day.
Then it's not just the movies we watch, not just on the screen anyway..
It becomes about the live movies we see in our heads when we go the grocery store, or pass through a forest, or do our laundry.

Then we go through a stage where we stop watching movies altogether because it's become an overload, there's already a universe of images swirling around in our heads from past movies we've seen, past dates we've been on, past tragedies, victories, sadnesses, triumphs...
And that all has to come out again, in the form of violence, sporting instinct, competition, artistic expression, whatever.
In short, it's like a virus that takes us, and infects our lives.
Creativity like nausea leading to vomit, because it *has* to come out, there's nowhere else for it to go.

And after that, if we *don't* go out there and make moves, then the sickness takes hold, and we hang around despondently, talk about this and that, criticize others' work, and generally get depressed and moody, and complain all the time. And don't do anything at all. Or, more precisely, we do everything else but.

And this is the creative person's sickness, according to Mr. B.
We all get it. We stare at our blank computer screens or sheets of paper.
We take our expensive camcorders out with us for the weekend hike.
And nothing comes out.

And we get depressed and moody, and go watch TV or movies, and get more depressed...

when what we all really need, all we really needed all along, is to be given a swift and stiff kick up the backside and told to get on with it.

Thank you, Mr. B.

So I say yes, watch movies. All the movie you want.
But always, always be making your latest, your last, best movie, inside your head.

Make your own damn movie. Start Now.

Get a project going, and all of a sudden, all the films you're looking at all start to make a special kind of sense, because you're working on a movie. Sorry, not A movie. YOUR movie.

Which is why I said in the beginning, don't talk about it, do it.

Tell us what movie you want to make, and I'll bet you the responses on which movies you'll need to see or not to see will be overwhelming
Don't forget. Ours is a collaborative art, a group process. A poet or a painter works alone. We do not. There's a load of us out here, waiting to work with you to make your movie the best it can be.

Now, one last thought:
Why is that?
Why would a captain of one team volunteer to help the captain of another?

Because we're all actually in collusion, not competition. Or, put another way, the better your move is, the more people will be there to watch it. And that's a wonderful thing. Ever seen people lining up around the block to watch a movie?
Ever think about what it would be like for us, for all of us, if those lines were to dwindle and die away completely?
So sure, I'm going to cheer for you, applaud your talent, help you out in any way I can, to keep the audience out there -- and why?
For the time my movie will be done and out and blows yours off the screen, that's why (they've already seen yours anyway) -- and please let there still be lines of people wanting to see mine too!

LOL!

HTH
Cheers
Chris

More simply shot and older movies pre-CGI era do it for me. There are just too many moving shots, lighting, etc. that CGI plays into (ruins it in some cases). Watch movies with lower budgets for the core value of it all. IMHO

Thank you Mr. Leong - May I call you Chris? - for taking the time to compose your thoughts and post them so completely. I needed a good, inspiring, "kick up the backside." And you're right, so I will. Enough of working only on "paid projects" and never getting around to working on my own. Starting today, the "paid projects" will have to make room, or I'll have to stay up later, wake up earlier, or whatever.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Kevin

Kevin
Rock on!
Chris
(doing the same thing, not enough sleep!))

Best movies to watch to learn filmaking
 

Guys,

There are two movies every filmaker should have in their collection; Heart Of Darkness and Burden of Dream.

In these to movies you get to see Francis Ford Coppala and Werner Hertzog litteraly go insane to get their movies made.

In the end two great movies come out of their suffering, "Apocalypse Now" and "Fitzcarraldo."

These movies are awesome

Ken

Strictly Ballroom.

My wife had to study it in film school. Her teacher said it was because Baz used on purpose a lot of different old school techniques to tell the story.

Other then that I would have to agree that doing it is the best way to learn. Nobody wants a clone of a famous director. The great ones have learned to master their own style through experimentation. To me thats what film is all about. Experimentation. In the past this was very expensive, but today it is very cheap to experiment. If you just learn somebody's style you will be lucky to direct made for TV movies on Lifetime.

Of course looking at current movies will help give you a guideline of what works and what does not work. I suggest just trying to view them with raw technique and method in mind and then try to take that raw knowledge and form it into your own style.

Yeah, I would have to ask, best movies to watch to learn *what kind* of filmmaking? For example, if we narrow it down by genre, here's another syllabus from my film school days at UT-Austin... this one for RTF385K: Film History: The Western, from Fall 1990... in order of their screening:

Ride The High Country, Tumbleweeds, Riders Of The Purple Sage, The Kid From Texas, One-Eyed Jacks, Shane, Johnny Guitar, Pale Rider, The Iron Horse, Once Upon A Time In The West, The Wonderful Country, Colorado Territory, The Searchers, Pursued.

First time I've looked at that course outline in... Gawd... seventeen years!

How come no ones mentioned De Sica's "Bicycle Thieves"???
A glaring omission I think.
Such a simple concept and so beautifully executed.
One of the cinemas finest achievements, and a huge inspiration to young filmakers from the late forties on.

Now i'm at it, why not throw in Wong Kar Wai's gorgeous " In The Mood For Love"

Oh, and anything by Powell/Pressburger.

My 2 Cents.

Dom

Malick's "Days of Heaven" and Woody's "Zelig" are personal faves of mine.

Oh, and wasn't it Godard who said all you needed to make a great movie was a girl and a gun?

Reading this thread I was thinking about it because it was one of the main examples used in all my classes in broadcast school. That and "The Hit" by Stephen Frears.

I'd say "Requiem for a dream" for about everything: storytelling, camera, music/sounddesign, editing. It's one of the movies where I can't focus on analyzing because it kind of sucks me in and I simply forget I was watching to analyze. I'm very much looking forward to watching Aronofsky's latest movie "The fountain".

For stunning cinematography, lighting, set design and all other things visual "Cite des enfants perdus" (City of the lost children) by Marc Caro and Jean-Pierre Jeunet comes to my mind.

Chris, I very much enjoyed reading your analysis of the ups and downs in the life of a filmmaker. Very well observed and very true :)
It reminded me of what I read on Rainer Werner Fassbinder. He was obsessed with making movies, always thought they weren't good enough, he wasn't good enough. And after a day of shooting he would, so I heard, snort cocaine to be able to stay awake and watch movies, then go back to work and make his next movie even better. No wonder he died young...

Heiko,
Glad you mentioned Fassbinder. I watched his adaptation of Jean Genet's "Querrelle" only two nights ago. There's a mad movie if ever there was one. The whole film is shot on one set - a highly stylised hypereal studio lit with various shades of orange - and the actors read the lines rather than act them. These kind of filmakers are fascinating because there's no attempt to emulate "normal" cinematic conventions which gives their films a a freshness and reinvigorates the artform. Iranian director Abbas Kiarostami's films have a similar quality, and i highly reccommend his "Taste of Cherry" for anyone out there who wants to make a movie but has only a car and a cheap camera at their disposal.

Documentaries about filmmaking...
 

I rented a couple of interesting documentaries from Netflix.

Visions of Light A documentary about cinematography. Has some history of the art, but doesn't go into a lot of detail about their methods.

The Cutting Edge About editing and post production.

Besides giving some history, they both illustrate how dealing with unexpected situations often leads to innovation.

Reading Chris Hurd's syllabus makes me want to go rent "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance". What a great movie.

If you want to watch a film where a massively talented director is showing off in EVERY SCENE, watch Orson Welles "The Stranger" - it's like Film School in a can.