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-   -   Color...is it me? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/blackmagic-cinema-camera/519276-color-me.html)

Wacharapong Chiowanich October 12th, 2013 12:06 AM

Re: Color...is it me?
I'm with Giacomo on this. Not only online sample movies and clips but from a few tests at my favorite local dealer here as well. The film gamma was particularly hard to deal with. No matter how hard I tried, once that flat, warm summer look was corrected either perceptible greenish/magenta tinges crept into the midtones and shadows or the overall color had to be dialed down to slight but noticeably desaturated levels. The video gamma was better but as has been mentioned here, the blacks were crushed. Stretching them would introduce some greenish/magenta casts as well.

This may come down to my skill in color grading not up to snuff or my tests and trials missing something important but after some big efforts I and my colleagues have decided to wait for the implementation of raw and stick with our EX1R's Mpeg 2 and FS100's AVCHD for the time being. We have been very surprised those compressed 35 and 28 Mbps files are so much easier to deal with when ingested and converted to the same ProRes 422 HQ files output from the BMPCC.

Giacomo Fabbrocino October 12th, 2013 05:28 AM

Re: Color...is it me?
To put it simple: can you achieve this look from a BlackMagic Cinema Camera?

Pat Reddy October 12th, 2013 06:57 AM

Re: Color...is it me?
Has anyone tried using Film Convert for BMCC or BMPCCs (either the stand alone or plugin version)? This is a nearly instant way to get one of many traditional film looks and could at least constrain the grading to something that an experienced colorist might do. Not sure it would help with the strangeness some people have been seeing. There is a trial version.


Craig Seeman October 12th, 2013 07:24 AM

Re: Color...is it me?

Originally Posted by Barry Goyette (Post 1816636)
Giacomo, Craig -

In my experience the warmth seems to be intrinsic to the camera. When white balanced properly (well that's a misnomer, because this camera has no white balance feature, only presets), everthing has a bit of a red tinge to it. If one adjusts the white balance to correct out the red, there seems to be no color in the image.

Not sure Craig if you own or have used this camera, but I'd say, with it's current color science, crippled white balance, and lack of "RAW" it is anything but a colorist's camera. Still trying to decide if I will keep it.

(on the positive side, the image is remarkably sharp and delicate and exhibits none of the aliasing that mars most cameras in this price range. Rolling shutter seems to be worse than my 5dmark11 though.)


Yes I own the camera. That you say "crippled" white balance concerns me because that wouldn't be the issue with the post workflow this camera needs. The white balance in this camera is just a ball park. Like other dial in color temps it doesn't take into account the RGB channels individually. Sure it would be nice, but the intent, as is, is that you do a proper white balance in post using RGB Parade or, in some cases, skin tones if need be. That would have nothing to do with the issue short of someone not knowing how to do this.

As to RAW, while ProResHQ isn't as flexible as cDNG, it can take a fair amount of pushing around and certainly magnitudes better than most anything H.264 based.

If there's a color cast, you'd see it in the scopes. If you see it in the graded video, it's the person's skills and/or aesthetic.

There's also the issue of the impact on the color via various VariNDs that most use. In addition there's IR contamination. It may be that these issues are hard to correct given their complex impact on the image. That would be the only issue I can think of. Since different filters impact different cameras differently (for example the same Tiffen ND may impact color differently on different cameras) you'd still see some variation since obviously everyone isn't using the same VariND and IR filter (if being used at all).

What it comes down to. It's still in the grade for the most part although some things like filter impact might be harder to handle. Certainly white balance should be simple. Anybody relying on one of the quick and dirty "film look" filters may be missing the correction pass before the grade even if the grade is a simple looks filter. The correction pass must be done when using this camera if you want to start from a "neutral" position.

Even in ProResHQ, there's enough color information to fix any "tendency" in the camera and, to some extent, the filters used on the camera.

Chris Joy October 17th, 2013 12:22 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
There are DNG's from the pocket cam floating around, looks like its only a matter of time before we all have raw...

Steve Nunez October 24th, 2013 09:02 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
You can correct for just about any color cast within FCP X using the "RGB Parade" scope and pushing/pulling range using the "luma" scope……I used this technique to achieve full dynamic range with some macro footage I recently shot and I think it was quite useable.

I believe most casts are created when improperly setting up the Kelvin white balance…..I really wish they used common names for the white balance instead of Kelvin.

Barry Goyette October 25th, 2013 01:28 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
I'm sorry Steve. I've looked at this footage on two different machines, and it's pretty typical of what I'm seeing from my camera and the vast majority of footage posted online. Heightened, pinkish red response, lowered green response, and overall low saturation.

I've been able to achieve an "almost" normal look from cinema gamma footage with two passes of color correction, but at that point the image is seriously degraded in my opinion. I've shot some TV gamma footage under strongly overcast situations, and with some serious grading was able to get it to something acceptable in terms of (normal) color.

It's hard for me to see why anyone is defending the color on this camera at this point.


Steve Nunez October 25th, 2013 04:40 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
Barry, I'm no expert on coloring or grading footage, but I have to agree there is quite "something" about the color that I find displeasing…..I've decided to sell the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera as I feel my GH3 captures the best video I've seen and suits my purposes perfectly.
Perhaps BM will tweak the color capture in future firmware updates as there are some updates promised for "Raw" capture etc……but as it stands, it's not the AMAZING camera I was expecting.

Please understand I'm not an expert but a serious video enthusiast and have owned over 30 cameras and when I see outstanding footage I can appreciate it…….not meaning to start a flame war, I LOVE what Backmagic has done by releasing a camera like this, it's just not 100% perfect for me at this time.

Dollar for dollar, I can't seem to find anything that beats my GH3 at the moment…..but i'm sure that will change…..in the meantime i'll keep my eye on Blackmagic and hope they improve the "Pocket" camera!


Jeff Troiano October 25th, 2013 06:54 PM

Re: Color...is it me?

Originally Posted by Chris Joy (Post 1817300)
There are DNG's from the pocket cam floating around, looks like its only a matter of time before we all have raw...

I think it will be here sooner then we might expect. Saw a review video, that was for the recalibrated sensor. I can't recall this gentalmans name, but he reviewed the camera, and they sent him back how exact same review camera, to see the difference after sensor recalibrated. They also told him to hold onto the camera, as raw was coming soon, and they wanted him to review after raw was released. That was a little over a week ago. I can't imagine they'd want him to hang onto the camera if it was still months away.

Steve Nunez October 25th, 2013 07:53 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
Jeff, just imagine how big the DNG files will be......more processing!

Will current BMPCC owners need to send in their cameras for a sensor recalibration?
I hate the idea of mailing the camera to and fro......I will keep an eye out for this information.

Any links on this?

Jeff Troiano October 25th, 2013 08:06 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
My camera arrived 10 days ago, loaded with latest firmware. I have 2 of the sandisk extreme pro 95mbs cards. I'm ready for raw (well as ready as I can be). I bought Alexis Van Hurkman's Resolve training series, and I've also had a copy of his color correction hand book.

Based on what I've seen from my camera, it came with the recalibrated sensor, so no blooming issues. Also the new firmware tok care of the black spot issue.

Plus I believe Premiere CC is adding support of cinema DNG, so should be able to edit natively very soon.

I say bring on the raw, this is why I bought the camera.

I'll say, I am not a professional. This is a hobby/obsession for me. Hoping to fly this camera on a hexacopter very soon.

Mark OConnell October 26th, 2013 02:34 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
I offer this recipe for people who don't do a lot of post processing, and who might be unsure about how to deal with their BMPCC footage. I use After Effects but the same thing could be done with any decent editing software. There are three basic things involved: 1. Adjust the Levels, or if you prefer you can use Curves, they both do the same thing, make the blacks black and the brights bright. 2. Adjust the color balance to get rid of any unwanted tint your footage may have. In AE Color Finesse does a very good job at this. If you don't know how to use it there are tutorials on Creative Cow. The basic idea is to get the whites white and not pink or some other color. 3. Boost the saturation to taste. For this you can use the basic Hue/Saturation adjustment.

If you have a lot of clips shot under the same conditions just copy the adjustments you've made to one and paste them onto the rest.

Hope that helps.

Noa Put October 26th, 2013 03:37 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
2 Attachment(s)
Is there anyone willing to make available a very short piece (even second would do) of a prores files straight of the pocketcam where that "strange" color is best visible, if possible maybe a shot from a person. I just want to see for myself if I (and maybe others?) are able to get some life in the footage and to make skin color look like it should. Or maybe there is allready some available and if someone can share a link that would be great.

I just did some quick and dirty color correction in Edius 7 on that oliviatech sample from the 2,5k bmc camera that has been made available to experiment on, see a before and after below, what do you guys think? I actually don't have much knowledge in colorcorrection and that's why I like having a camera like a gh3 that can do it right out of the box, I probably would get frustrated with the pocketcam as well trying to get the color I want.

Mark OConnell October 26th, 2013 04:10 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
Go back and adjust the overall color balance. Look at her t-shirt and the store wall, they're pink and they should be white. The levels have improved though.

Noa Put October 26th, 2013 04:40 PM

Re: Color...is it me?
the question is if you have to start grading such flat footage, how do you know what should be white?

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