Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

I think the C300 will be a nice wildlife camera. Just a bit too expensive with all the extra gear I would need (UW housing etc). A 600 or 800 mm lens is a bit expensive, but with that you'll get between 1000-2000mm with a 1.4 or 2.0.
But if you don't like the big chip effect... I know I do and would love to get my hands on one...

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

I don't think CMOS sensors are SO much of a problem with wildlife - I used my XF300 recently shooting Tibetan antelope which can move real fast, and didn't notice any problems. CMOS jelly vision tends to manifest itself most when you've got lots of vertical & horizontal lines in frame, which doesn't happen so much in nature, unless you're shooting a load of trees, but they don't tend to move too fast ;o)

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

To give you an idea, a common lens used for wildlife is the Canon HJ18ex28B - a 2/3 lens that goes up to 1000mm. Its superb, and I couldn't imagine doing serious wildlife filming with anything much less if you need to get close-up detail from a distance.

The equivalent lens on the C300 would be about 2,600mm... A little unachievable...

Of course you can make wildlife films without such a long lens - I have done so myself, but I just thought it worthwhile pointing out the limitations of the C300 sensor.

Chris

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

A 400mm zoom with a 1.4TC works out to about 900mm on the C300. I agree that is not long enough for most people. Plus it's often going to need to be stopped down significantly for DOF, giving up the advantage of sensor sensitivity.
An EX3 with a nanoflash is less expensive. The nanoflash at 100 mbs should be good enough for just about everyone.
Anyone have a guess at what aperture a lens on the C300 becomes diffraction limited?

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

I don't have any larger sensor experince so I would like to ask the questain...Would you be able to read a newspaper at a greater distance with a large sensor camera like the C300 has with 800 mm of lens power versus a 1/3" sensor like the XLH1 with the same lens power setting?

I'm enjoying everyone's feedback, thank you.

Leon Lorenz
Canadian Wildlife Productions: Grizzly Bears, Bighorm Sheep in Alberta & BC Rockies DVD Videos

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Without getting into specifics, it's a tradeoff between resolution of the glass and the size/cost of the glass. For a small sensor, you have small pixels, so you need very sharp glass to deliver the needed resolution. On a large sensor, the pixels are larger, so the glass itself doesn't have to be as accurate. However, the glass needs to be larger, heavier, and will be more expensive to create a lens with the same effective focal length and f-stop.

2/3-inch is probably the sweet spot. The pixels are medium sized, so the quality has to be good but not extreme. Also, long glass gets long, but not extreme. Still, just look at and price a sports broadcast lens to see what it takes to get both sharpness and length at decent speed for a 2/3" sensor. Similar glass for a 1/3" sensor will be cheaper, but won't offer the sharpness that a broadcast 2/3" setup can deliver.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Theoretically, you'll be (much) better off with the 1/3" sensor. The limiting factor is most likely to be sensor and system resolution - hence the same 800mm will give greater magnification when used with smaller chips.

Practically, it's more complicated (isn't it always....?) and a lot depends on whether you're talking about lenses designed for the chip size, or adapting a 35mm lens for 1/3" via an adaptor.

Think of it this way, you can think of the sharpness of a lens in terms of total no of lines across the horizontal, or lines/mm measured at the sensor. So if a lens gives (say) 4000 lines across a sensor 20mm wide, it's the same as 200lines/mm. Use the same lens on a 1/3" camera, and if we guess the width is now 5mm (approx), the best resolution you'll get is 1000 lines total - which may not do justice to a 1920x1080 system.

A designed for 1/3" lens will likely have a better lines/mm figure - but far smaller coverage area. That's why if you're using a lens designed for large format, it may look soft if used with too small a sensor.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

I had a chat to Simon King (UK based wildlife film maker) at the London boat / outdoor / bicycle show last year. He had a EOS 5D set up, and said that he'd been using it in the field.

No idea what his experiences were, but he's got a website, and you might be able to find out more through that.

Simon King Wildlife Home Page

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

After reading everything I could find about the C300 and watching some internet video reviews I decided to take the plunge and see if it would work for wildlife filming for me. Along with the C300 I ordered a Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS11 zoom lens, EF 2X 111 extender, Zacuto Lens Support and Studio Baseplate with 12" rods and a couple of SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s 600X 64 GB CFcards.

One of my main concerns I had before I ordered the camera was, would it fit in my day pack with the above lens combination. Fortunally the dealer had a demo model to check this out and it did though there was no excess. The pack I'm using is actually a camo hunting pack made by Badlands and is called the Super Day Pack. I've tried a lot of different packs over the years and this one is the best by far for my needs. It is quite compact dispite the many well thought out compartments for storing one's essentials. Also, I'm able to lash this pack on top of my large North Face Expedition Pack for 2 week filming trips into the mountains (total pack weight now 70 pounds ). In the main compartment I built a padded cradle for added protection and comfort. There is no issues with this setup whatsoever for packing my camera safely in the roughest going.

It's been 6 months now since I unboxed everything. The lens support and baseplate fit perfectly as it's made for the C300 and of course it's fully adjustable. I removed the 4 tiny screws that hold the cold shoe unto the carrying handle and set the cold shoe aside while I tossed the handle in a spare parts box. I than grabbed a hacksaw and carefully cut the ring off the mic mount and cold welded the cold shoe on top of what's left of the mic mount. This setup works so slick, my mic has a holder that slides unto the cold shoe in a second or two. So often speed is the name of the game for setting up to capture a quick wildlife shot.

Like most changes in life it takes time to adjust, and going from small sensor cameras ( since 1991 ) to the C300 is quite something to get used to. I started off filming around the yard on flowers,trees. my kids playing, etc,trying to get a feel for the camera ( I wasn't ready to dash off to the hills quite yet). Practice, practice and more practice was the order of the day for a number of days as I gradually started to feel comfortable using it. After nightfall would find me out filming flying moths in our yard I couln't see with my naked eye, filming groups of stars, no problem. To be able to shoot clean in low light, what a huge plus for filmmakers. The sky is your limit to bring out your creativeness. I must say congratulations to Canon for building this camera, the footage is simply stunning if you do your part. It is a very rugged camera for wildlife filmmaking and in the six months I've used it, it has never let me down. I hope to use it for many years God willing, I can't see why I would need to upgrade. There are 2 things I wish they ( Canon ) would of done, added a Start / Stop button on the front lower left side of the camera and 1080 60p.

So, is this a great camera for wildlife? In a word, Yes! It is more challenging than using small sensor cameras, however the look and feel of your films will take a large leap forward once you master it. You won't be disappointed.

Leon Lorenz
Canadian Wildlife Productions: Grizzly Bears, Bighorm Sheep in Alberta & BC Rockies DVD Videos

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Hi Leon

Just to chime in (Only just seen this)

I leave for a nat geo shoot in Sumatra (Elephant) in a weeks time with the C300 ! I've not used the camera in anger yet but in lots of testing I'm very impressed. I normally shoot varicam but this project will require lots of walking and being able to move quickly. The lighter camera, tripod and batteries will make this possible. It also won't require much long lens work although I am going to take a 100-400+1.4. Having stabilised lens options is also a real plus. I'm very impressed with its ability handheld with IS. The other thing I've noticed. Lenses that I didn't like on the 7d (24-105) shine on the C300. To me the images are sharp enough with so much resolution that you don't need the ultra sharp glass that 7d needed to make a pleasing image.

The biggest issue for me is the lack of zoom ratio. To bag a good sequence in a short event you really need more than a x4 ratio. I am going to take either a 28-300 or 35-350 for one of my sequences that I know I'll only have a few minutes to bag all my shots. I'm pretty sure these lenses will be fine when it comes to IQ. Let me know if you've tried them ?

Of course the look is great and I think this story will look great told with the visual possibilities of such a camera.

What I would say is. There is no such thing as the perfect camera for wildlife shooting. I mean 'wildlife'...its a pretty broad term after all. I've gone for this camera because finally theres a broadcast legal camera (in camera) that will produce stunning images on par with a varicam and I don't need to spend £20K in lenses, £3-5k on a tripod etc etc. It has benefits over the varicam and drawbacks but it will suit some of my jobs and for those I'm sure it will be great.

Anyway... I'm sure I'll post about the my project on my return!

Mat

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Mat, a hunch tells me that it might be you that bought Nigel Barker's gently used C300. Nice move if it was you.

After watching (again) today's stunning 'Africa' on the BBC, which featured (African!) elephants for a good part of the broadcast, I have to say I feel rather jealous...! Amazing footage, as always with anything involving David Attenborough.

Good luck.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Uhh...there is a Start/Stop on the front.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Great to hear your review Leon. And have to say I feel more than a little jealous. Worked for the Booster in Jasper years ago and loved the area there and west towards PG. Sounds like you've got a great gig!!

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Hi Leon,
How are you finding the limited range of your C300 compared to your old H1 setup with its massive magnification? Are you still only shooting with the 70-200 plus 2x extender or do you have longer lenses you had from your last set up? One thing is for sure, i think with the much larger tv's in living rooms these days, the need for ultra close ups is maybe not as great as it was a few years ago when a large tv was 30". Now with a 80" tv, a wider shot would i think have a similar effect.
Oh & by the way, i ordered your latest dvd a couple of weeks ago, so am eagerly anticipating it coming in the mail & watching it!
Regards,
Bryce

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Mat, yes the lack of a good zoom ratio in most lenses is an issue. I haven't tried the lenses you mentioned. How do you like them and are they heavy? It would be nice if Canon would / could make a 24-240 that's not much heavier than their 70- 200. I'm often finding I can't go wide enough filming in thick cover. I may try the new Canon 24- 70 for close work. All the best on your upcoming filming trip.

David, yes I know there is one on the front right, I would of liked one on the left front side as the camera is facing away from you.

Dave, I shot part of my third film "Bighorn Showdowns" in the Jasper area around 10 years ago. It sure is a beautiful area to live and film. We live in the heart of the Robson Valley which is only about 75 miles west of Jasper.

Cheers to all.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Hi Bryce

Your post came in before I could respond to it in my last post. I'm not really missing the extra zoom compared to being able to go wide quickly on fast action shots. Somehow the detail on subjects seem good even on wider shots. I'm sure the large sensor makes a difference.

Thanks for ordering "Wildest of the Wild", you should be receiving it soon.

Thanks,

Leon Lorenz
Canadian Wildlife Productions: Grizzly Bears, Bighorm Sheep in Alberta & BC Rockies DVD Videos

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Hi guys

As an add on to this a fellow cameraman friend shooting for the same series has shot a full sequence with a C300 + 100-400 + doubler.

Apparently the footage is great even though this combo is not recommended usually to image degradation. As I said in my last post I don't think this camera requires the sharpest of the sharp to produce great images. Of course this combo is pretty slow so requires good light, again the C300 can handle that and this does take you out to super telephoto.

Mat

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

I am using C300 for shooting wildlife in India.

The difference between the C300 footage and DSLR footage is stunning. There is a lot of detail in the C300 footage even with the low quality 24-105. Most of the time I am using the 24-105 instead of the 24-70 f2.8 L USM lens because of the IS in the 24-105. I checked the new 24-70 but felt the need of IS and hence mostly using the 24-105 for close action.

I use the 400 f2.8 L IS USM lens with 1.4x and 2x II TCs. The footage is nice. The 100-400 works well with the 1.4x TC and is surprisingly very nice and can be used with beanbag or monopod.

I hope Canon can bring in slow motion ability in 1080p.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

I disagree. I think it can be a great wildlife camera, if.....if you have the right lenses and perhaps using a x2 extender converter, but for those extra reach shots you will need to spend big bikkies on lenses.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Hi guys

Just a kit update as I know its always useful to get views on lens setups.

I can personally confirm the 100-400 with x2 produces a good sharp image with the C300. It will be good to know I have a long lens option in the bag. With the base plate system I have setup up I can add it in about 15-20 secs which is not too bad either.

The 35-350 has also been a good choice. The image is sharp enough and colours are great. It doesn't stand up well with the x2, havent tried the 1.4 yet. But as a x10 zoom option it seems very good.

Mat

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

In reference to the post by Sabyasachi Patra,

"The difference between the C300 footage and DSLR footage is stunning. There is a lot of detail in the C300 footage even with the low quality 24-105."

I am a bit surprised that you classify the 24-105mm as being low quality-(I assume you are referring to the Canon 24-105mm F4 L IS) -it seems to receive mostly positive reviews. I realize you say it does give good detail on the C300 in spite of this, but I still wasn't aware it is a low quality lens.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

I'm not a wildlife filmmaker but I'll chime in here.

I have found this about the 24-105 f/4 L as well. I do both stills and video work. With full-frame stills the lens is convenient. It's small, light, has a good range, and the f/4 matters less overall when ISOs can go through the roof. BUT it's wonky - there's very strong distortion especially on the wide end. The corners don't hold well if shooting wide open and it is subject to extremely strong CA. CA that cannot always be corrected in post. I have found the image quality for stills to be barely passable as a pro lens.

On a C300 which is only using the center of the image area and which also does some CA correction in camera - it works fine and the IS is extremely helpful.

The new 24-70 f/2.8 II is a much better lens in terms of optical quality (but no IS.) I am curious about the 24-70 f/4 IS lens -> how much better it is than the 24-105 with image quality and if its hybrid IS is noticeably better for video. I suspect it's better on both fronts.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Mat, I used to use the Canon 35-350mm L a lot for video work (without converter) and found it worked quite well in most situations, but the very latest Sigma AF 120-300mm OS f/2.8 far outshines the Canon for handling and picture quality in both stills and video.
The Sigma also works very well with 1.4X and 2X converters (either Sigma or Canon versions work great. I use it with Canon extenders) and maintains AF even with 2X converter - So you have a decent 120-600mm range in a very well-built package.
The image stabilizer on the Sigma is one of the best I've ever used and a step-up from most of the Canon IS lenses I've used. It also has internal zoom (unlike the horrible push-pull extending 28-300mm L and 35-350mm L zooms). The large and wide manual focus ring on the new Sigma is smooth as silk and so perfect for filming.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Hi all,

I am a new member to this forum and can see this thread has been going on for some time. I am in a similar position to Leon and looking for something which is going to provide broadcast quality images and with a good reach for wildlife capturing.

I have been spinning around trying to see which camera works best for the application and so far I am narrowed down to some Sony models and the Canon C300.

No matter which company you deal with the salesperson will always say to get theirs as it is 'the best'. We know that isn't true as it comes down to what is going to work when out and about. I will be shooting solo and am experienced in using a Canon EOS 5D MK111 and a former Sound Engineer but getting this right needs to be number one consideration. I have a good budget but that doesn't mean I want to lose my money buying equipment that will frustrate me when out in the field and spending most days hiding in vegetation waiting for that creature to come into the view finder and then realise the lens is not right or the camera can't do what is needed for that, often, one off opportunity.

I am able to use a tripod for a lot of the work and very fit so carrying weighty gear is not really a worry.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Just to be more specific I am ideally looking to get something that has a good DOP and is able to handle low light and will take either the Canon lenses or Nikon. I have a load of good L glass for Canon and some Sigma (this are actually very nice too).

I am happy to add an external recording device to get the level of desired finish for broadcasting companies so it doesn't have to be an all in one. I reckon the C300 is a great camera but with the large sensor my worry is the DOP and loss of reach on lenses which don't cost crazy amounts of money.

Something that has good battery life, is fairly robust (for when I need to rope climb a tree with it on my back, and can more or less give me the results ready to go straight into editing for production.

It is a tall order I know but what is needed is a system that will last me some time and will give me a lot of use.

Thanks again for any information.
Mark.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Sorry I mean Depth Of Field, DOF not DOP (not sure where that came from!).

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Hi Mark,
Since you have asked this question in the C300 for Wildlife thread, I would say that it would be a good choice for wildlife.

The S35 sized sensor of the C300 as opposed to the full frame sensor of the Canon EOS 5D Mark III gives you a greater reach. The image stabilisation of the IS lenses also works with the C300.

The low light ability of the C300 camera is good. You however need to expose it correctly to get the right amount of noise.

You can use Nikon lenses with an adapter. I can't vouch for it, as I use all canon L series lenses. Even zoom lenses like 100-400 give you a good reach and works well.

No camera is perfect. However, after a lot of thought I have bought the C300 and am pretty happy with it. You may check the preview of my leopard film included in my signature. The C300 footage is marked and the other footage is from DSLR. It might help you in making your decision.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Hi Sabyasachi

The C300 does look very nice, the results more importantly.

I have a decent budget so this is not out of reach but a LOT of people are saying that 2/3 is best for wildlife due to better DOF. The 50 Mbps and 4.2.2. is not an issue with say a Sony EX3 as an external recorder can soon provide those specs to meet the strict requirements of say the BBC or similar.

I need something able to handle low light well, provide good DOF and be robust due to the type of locations/situations I will be filming. The C300 looks good but is it tough.

Slow motion also matters as I will want to catch fast action and slow it right down but with a decent quality end result. It seems I want a lot but really not nearly as much as some cameras mentioned on this thread. I asked about the Sony, although a C300 thread, as I could see others providing their recommendations and experiences with other brands/models.

Your film is VERY nice and the images are outstanding so it does demonstrate that what you have is a good set-up but... Is it the system for what I want, lots of moving about Run-And-Gun and other tricky situations requiring fast no nonsense capturing of images. I looked at the Canon XF305 and Sony PMW200 but without interchangeable lenses (what were they thinking to miss that?!!) I passed on them.

Before I spend the cash and invest on equipment which I hope to use for a long time, something future proof, I can't just look at the first well marketed product until I see it is able to get what I need, your film although excellent is not the type of work I will be doing so still uncertain about the C300, although a great camera.

What were you using before you had the C300 and by the way, thanks for your help.

Mark.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

...about the 2/3 sensors.. I meant to say the increased range with lenses (crop factor) and low light capabilities for certain conditions likely to be encountered when out with the camera.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Mark, it sounds that you are not really sure how different cameras will work, and how you will work with the camera. I would suggest that you should rent the different cameras you are looking at over a weekend and try them out, the way you will use them. Every wildlife filmmaker got there own style, you need to try the camera to see if it fits yours.

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

Long time since anyone posted in this thread :) but I pick it up again.
Sigma 120-300 2.8 with teleconverter - how does the footage look? any one with examples?
At this time there is also the Tamron 150-600mm - any one tried it out on C100 or C300.
I use C100 myself, but assume there should be no difference. (I reg. with a Ninja)

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

I've been using the C300 shortly after it was released and am very pleased with the quality of the camera and the footage. This is one tough camera. I go into very rugged places and it has never let me down. Just got back from a remote salmon spawning river in British Columbia filming grizzlies and wolves catching large Chinook salmon and the results were stunning to say the least.

I have to be very mobile in most of my filming so I don't carry long lenses. The Canon 28 -300mm is the lens I have attached 99% of the time as I need to be able to shoot wide when unsuspecting wildlife come in close. I find the best zoom lens is your 2 legs anyhow. At times I'll attach a 2X extender for certain long shots with excellent results.With the push pull design you have to be very careful not to hit the extender when you go to a wider angle. Canon says don't use the extender with this lens, however, I do without any problems, just be totally focused on what you're doing. I also use the Canon 70 - 200mm for very low light conditions. I find both lenses equal in picture quality.

Leon Lorenz
Canadian Wildlife Productions
Canadian Wildlife Productions: Grizzly Bears, Bighorm Sheep in Alberta & BC Rockies DVD Videos

Re: C300 for wildlife filmmaking?
 

nice thread.

a lot of what's mentioned here amounts to why i've been hoping for more m43 improvements and releases. or for sony to finally make an interchangable version of its 1" sensor which has proven fantastic, if they came out with a new 1" sensor with a lower pixel count, improved or eliminated the rolling shutter, that'd be something i'd grab in a minute