Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

So have many of us. Though I have become more dissatisfied with GoPro as time went on and rarely use it now.

I think the informed opinion is that codec is inefficient. Chosen because it is more compatible with what Photographers are use to rather than something that works best for Videographers. I have no issues with say a 5 times larger file size if they deliver 5 times the quality. That isn't the case. If they were offering 10 bit 4:2:2 for that file size, I'd be onboard with it and so would many others I dare say. It's not.


Couldn't agree more. Still these differences make for a lively discussion. :)

You can say this with certainty - who are your sources just to ask?


Despite being one of those enticed over a recently announced camera, I'd gladly add a C100 mark III if it offered 4K. I'd even accept no 60p as long as the codec is no less than 100mbps and there's no crop on the sensor. Many Production companies don't limit themselves to 1 brand. Ideally I would like to have a Sony 4K Mirrorless for my extreme low light filming, a C100 (with 4K) for some of my Corporate Promo work and my Panasonics for much of my Wedding filming.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

We do have lots of different clients who require varying levels of quality. Don't you? Have not bought anything new yet. C300 MKII would be for clients who require 4K or the 2K 12 bit 444. I am shooting a doc where they want to shoot 4K, probably with the C300 MKII, but the media management and amount of CFast cards required to shoot 410 Mbps for five hours a day for two weeks is convincing them we should just shoot 1080 Prores on my camera. I told them that if we need to shoot that much, they need to budget for a full time data wrangler because I cannot shoot 12 hours a day, then sit in my hotel room all night downloading CFast cards and cloning drives. (small crew documentary in South America). So adding another crew position for two weeks is a big expense as will be renting enough CFast cards. If we shoot on my Blade, that is one 480 GB drive per day to shoot Prores HQ, copy it, then clone it, done.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

The majority of my clients out there have pretty good eyes for quality though, like myself they are not that sophisticated technically and often have trouble telling differences between say, 28Mbps or 36Mbps AVCHD or MP4 output from the Canon C100 Mk2 and a 10 bit, 4:2:2 ProRes footage from let's say a Shogun or Inferno. In short, they are comfortable with the H.264 files recorded internally on cheap SD cards though they and I do occasionally see some downsides. These however have been very few and far between and nothing compared to mixing in a few souped up Canon DSLRs snippets in the main footage. I would feel a little cheated and they could too. But I definitely agree to what you say that if the content and the rest of the production are done well enough these differences often hardly matter.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

This and other boards we hang out on are for techno-nerds who are obsessed. I kind of wear two hats, I love all of the technology, specs and new toys, I am paid to write about it and find it fascinating, but my other hat is as a writer/producer and when it comes down to it, most of what we sweat and obsess about (specs, resolution, bit rate, data rate) here doesn't matter at all to 90% of clients. They are much more concerned about the concept, quality of writing, acting, direction, music, sound quality and how watching the project affects them emotionally than if it was shot 4K, 12bit, had superb color depth, etc.

I have a friend who is the opposite of most us. They know enough about the technology to shoot, but are not a great camera operator, shoot with older gear. But they are a great writer and producer. I have worked on projects for them, knew what we shot and have always been amazed and impressed at what they put together with the footage we shot and combined with the vast library of older footage we shot years ago for the same client. They often use SD footage we shot more than a decade ago, mix 720p with our modern 1080 and 4k footage. Much of the footage is technically inferior, but it totally works well because they are a master writer, editor and storyteller. That's what most paying clients care about more than technical perfection.

Most who frequent boards like these are wrapped up in specs and discussing new gear but are often clueless about being a great filmmaker and or an effective visual storyteller. I, as well as many of us, have worked on a well budgeted project where we got to use/rent or borrow the best gear available but the concept/script/casting/direction/sound went wrong and the end result was a failure. My point is, sometimes we need to take a step back from all of our techno-nerd obsession with specs and put forth some effort to better our skill set as visual storytellers. Which I write in a thread that I started, obsessing about the next great camera ;-)

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Actually this forum and those like it are full of those who are happy to discuss the importance of specs, skin tones, bit depth and fine detail when attacking other cameras they don't like, but as soon as their preferred camera suffers a similar attack, the comeback of, it's all about content is reminded as to why these things are not important.

You're no different to the rest of us in that respect. You'll wag your finger against the GH4 over specs and colour science but tell us the Canon 80d is perfectly acceptable because it's all about content. I'm afraid many of us are equally guilty of similar behaviour, so I can't really complain.

Whilst there are plenty of techno-nerds here, at least many who write here are working professionally. I occasionally dip into DpReview forums and its more hobbyist there.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Steve, still with the bruised feelings of inadequacy because I didn't like a camera that I bought years ago? I thought this was an NAB possible intro of a Canon C100 MKIII thread? You really should post more in the GH4 forum if you want to talk about the GH4.

Just out of curiosity, how can one "attack a camera"? Does the camera have feelings? Does it's esteem and personal worth suffer because one of us rude humans didn't like it? My 80D told me this morning that it doesn't care one lick about the rude bullies in this thread and all of the nastiness they heaped on him. I think my 80D has higher self esteem than your GH4 ;-)

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Nah, just amused at the hypocrisy in these discussions. See below :)

So it's okay for you to defend at great length using the 80d when it's criticised (your bruised feelings), but my mentioning the GH4 in relation to your own words on it in this thread are out of bounds. No problem. Your thread, your rules. ;-)

One definition of the word attack - "to criticise or oppose fiercely and publicly."

Perhaps this is a British / American cultural difference in the use of the word. However I see no mention of feelings in that broad definition there.

To be honest, I can't say anymore on the C100 Mark III as it's all speculation. Will monitor NAB for any announcements, but not holding my breath. I did ask one guy to confirm his sources on how he knows for certain it'll have 4K 60p. Would be interested to know. Knowing Canon, they'll give the C100 Mark III 4K but make it a crop on the sensor just for the sake of making it not the C300.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Returning to the topic, sort of, and trying to avoid the flying handbags...

I agree that content is king but it also depends on how the client wants that content delivered. If they are happy with a C100, 80D, G4, or whatever, then it's obviously ok to use that level of gear provided it will do the job you want. I'm currently working on a doc for broadcast TV and in answer to an initial enquiry about the delivery specs we were told quite directly that "a C300mk2 shooting 4k is the minimum they would accept." So for us the camera specs were critical.

Specs are vital for many people and these forums offer great advice on what cameras will or will not do the job and I have learnt a lot. Photography, whether still or moving, is an unusual blend of technical and artistic considerations, You can't ignore either if you want people to see your product.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

I always see it that I can discuss any technical issues here and then content with my clients. It's rare I have a content issue to bring up here and if I do, its more in the Wedding forum where it would be best served. As we all deliver very different content, its often the technical issues that is common ground for discussions. I don't think that makes me a nerd obsessed with specs. Like Dan and many others here, I wear two hats and whilst specs make for lively discussions, it doesn't mean we rate content any less.

I hope Dan is not offended by our mild bit of hand bag waving at each other, but I can assure him and others, the last thing I wish to see is this forum detract from it's subject more than it already has. Always willing to read any other thoughts on the C100 Mark III and any possible info too.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

The latest is I have now heard from two, independent sources that Canon will show no new camera at NAB. This is shaping up to be one of the more ho hum NABs in recent memory. Canon will obviously intro a new sub $10k camera at some point, but it sounds as if there is a good chance none of us will have it in hand before 2018. Sigh.

In the meanwhile, my C100 is still making me money. I shot more C300 MKII jobs last year, this year, so far, not one 4K project yet. Funny how demand ebbs and flows.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

The proof of the pudding is in the eating :)

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Ahem. "I have a feeling" that Sabyasachi might be at least half-right.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

I think you misunderstand; I wasn't being sarky, I was actually asking you where you had received this information. Mainly cos I'd like it to be true. Just would like a bit more proof than you telling me you've gobbled up your dessert.


P.S. I'm a Treacle Tart fan if you're offering. Maybe with a small dollop of Ice Cream if that's not imposing too much.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

A favorite Spike Lee movie quote comes to mind...

"Those who will tell, don't know. Those who will know, won't tell."

Meaning, basically, that I doubt Sabyasachi is able to reveal his sources.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Ah. I see. Still it would surprise me to see 4K 60p on it; a very pleasant surprise. Canon have held back the good tech from their sub $5000 dollar cameras. It would make it quite the upgrade to the Mark II and tempt many who jumped ship to the Sony FS5 back to Canon.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Why would these people switch back from the FS5?

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Probably won't, but as I said, some maybe at very least tempted. I know a few who loved their C100 but switched to the Sony FS5 because of the lack of updates. I've been tempted loads of times by a couple of Sony cameras and especially the Blackmagic Pocket camera; even ordered the latter, but cancelled when I realised it had no place in my workflow despite my liking its image.

I'm tempted by the C300 Mark II but my Bank Balance has put paid to that dream. :)

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Seems less expensive to go to the C300 Mark II than to keep switching camera systems.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Agreed. It was but an idle remark. Not a statement made with any clear thought and logic. :)

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Isn't that the pre-requisite to be in this business, wasting a lot of money because you don't know how all of the gear really works? Most of us, early in our career wasted a ton of money buying the wrong gear, cheap gear because we were clueless about it. Tripods are the easiest example.

1. Noob buys cheap tripod, tries to put their shiny new camera on it and attempts professional moves. "This thing sucks, I need something better." Takes $200.00 loss to get rid of cheap tripod or throws it away in disgust.

2. Spends double the amount, $400.00, doesn't realize until using it that they just bought a fancier version of the cheap junk they just got rid of. Too busy, pre-occupied to sell it, it sits in the closet or gear locker.

3. Buys $1,000.00 tripod that is beginning to approach something decent but then goes from a DSLR/Mirrorless to a real video camera that weighs eight times as much so $1,000.00 tripod is now struggling with pro video camera. Same thing, too busy to list and deal with Ebay, gives it to cousin to who is shooting weddings.

4. Buys $4,000.00 Sachtler, Miller, Vinten, used O'Connor, finally achieves camera support nirvana. A professional head, resting on light, rigid carbon fiber legs, great pan handle, nice bag.

So let's see, starting out, spent $200.00 on junk, $400.00 on junk, $1,000.00 on halfway decent but still too light without enough mass and too much counterbalance for a 2lb mirrorless, $4,000.00 for a proper tripod and head. Total expenditure, $5,600.00 over 2-3 years. Imagine the tripod and head one could have bought with $5,600.00 right out the gate? The kind that would last for two decades and support the next five cameras you own?

It seems as if most of us go through this process with all of the gear that we buy. Too bad more of us don't adhere to the "buy once, cry once" school of thought. When I think back or even go through my garage shelves, I look at all of the cheap matte boxes, FFs, tripods, lighting and together, it adds up to significant money I wasted when I should have been buying good stuff. My current regular Sachtler and Miller legs, I bought eleven years ago and they have already been through five cameras. It's tougher with cameras because they are all outdated so quickly but with all of the support gear and audio, buying subpar support gear is just wasted money.

I've had a full C300 MKII package sitting in a shopping cart numerous times but the overall cost keeps causing me to not pull the trigger.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

I only bought one matte-box, for $22. It runs about three times that now. It's useless except for show (I recently used it a commercial shoot for a camera prop). I could never justify the matte-box when a set of NDs and Polarizers at 82mm and step-up rings would do the same job cheaper and easier.

I had one Follow Focus, the Redrock Micro FF Blue. I used it until I sold it because I didn't need a FF anymore with DPAF. If I was going to buy one today, no question it would be the Bright Tangerine Revolvr Atom.

Tripods I was very lucky on. I have used my primary tripod since 2008 (a mid-range Manfrotto).

The first lighting I ever bought was the Westcott uLite kit. Still works, use it on jobs that just need light for exposure. Then I had the F&V LED units. I was talking to a shooter who still works a lot today and uses those. They were good, but I ended up wanting more power to compete with windows in the Texas sun, so I went to Aputure Lightstorms. I have four of those, very happy with them.

I do a lot of research, and not only that, but imagine the use cases of the items I buy. I have definitely purchased things I didn't need, but I feel like I've kept that as to as much of a minimum as could be reasonably done in one's life.

I just didn't think about the cost. I did a Canon lease because I needed something that would give me an amazing image quickly and easily and had the advanced DPAF features that would allow me to do shots on my own that would normally require a crew. I have done a walk to camera while zooming out shot that the C300 Mark II focused for me perfectly. I have done Ronin and jib shots where the camera went from close to infinity focus. I have done parallax shots with one operator where the camera maintained the focus as it moved back and forth on the Dana Dolly. All of these would have been otherwise difficult to impossible to pull off without more of a monetary investment from the client or pulling in a bunch a favors over and over again.

There are definitely better spec'd cameras for the money, but the C300 Mark II gets me shots I couldn't get with those, and so it's been worth every penny.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Ha, ha Gary, I think I am showing my age. I made most of my buying mistakes pre-Internet era or when the Internet was around but little of the gear we obsess about was pored over and posted about in the detail about like it is now. Back then, I would buy out of the B&H Catalog, call them and give them a credit card number. It's easier to avoid the mistakes today if you do your research, with the Internet, watch YouTube Reviews and sometimes get some hands on at a trade show or open house. Back then, it was, "Wow, it looks good in that catalog picture, I'll order it!" Just getting good input from other people in our business was more challenging too back then with no social media and perhaps just an occasional phone call to discuss.

Wow, four Lightstorms, nice I have two and really like them, they are a lot of light for the money, the wireless remote comes in handy and the good CRI makes them easy to color correct.

I am totally sold on the C300 MKII, I rent it every month or so when my clients want 4k delivery. But when i put it in my cart with enough batteries, CFast cards, Zacuto Recoil V2 rig, new tripod, new camera case, etc. It always comes up to about $20k to $25k for everything needed to make it all work. I have kind of sworn off of buying expensive cameras after owning a Betacam, DSR-500, BVW-D600WS, back in the day. Once budgets took a dive, I vowed to only rent cameras above about $10k and own the cameras below. The C300 MKII is getting close and if they drop it to $10k, I would probably go for it.

I'm all about the business equation. If I can book a project that will have a few weeks of day rate for one, I will buy it. The project I just booked was looking like a 4K two week doc shoot in South America. But after going through media needs with the producer who wants to shoot 4-5 hours a day for two weeks, we wisely decided to shoot it on 1080 using my C100 and Ninja Blade instead. The media management for shooting that much at 410 Mbps would not have worked without a full time data wrangler and renting a BIG pile of CFast card. We are there as tourists, not as a big crew, so we need to be low key. We need to shoot massive amounts of footage in many tight and cramped locations like interviews in a helicopter, taxis, limo as well as gimbal shooting on the streets. So smaller and lighter is better for this project. This would have paid for about a third of the camera package in rentals but then I would be scrambling to try to pay off the other 2/3 of the cost before Canon possibly comes out with something supposedly almost as good for significantly less money in the Fall. That's why I am on the edge of buying, just hanging out and waiting for the right opportunity. When the work will pay for most of it in one shot, that's the time for me to buy it, that's how I paid for my last three cameras, one project paid for the whole thing, it's then a pretty low risk and you get into profit on your next project rentals with it to your client.

This year has been weird, I have been very busy but not shooting a ton, just a few here and there. Producing more 3D animation at the moment, show development, than shooting other than this two week doc shoot but the doc will have some shooting here in the US as well but I don't know how many days yet.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

I cannot even imagine a world like that. I got into shooting in 1999, and by the time the DVX100 came out, I was well aware of it from what the Internet was like then.

No anyone around the world is just a quick FB message or Tweet away. It's crazy even to me, and I got the Internet at 16.

I don't find I have to correct for them. I am getting excellent results setting my C300m2 to the daylight preset with them.

My setup is 1 A60, 3 A30, 4x 128GB Sandisk CFast cards. My tripod is now a 540 Manfrotto head with the standard legs and the mid-level spreader. That works just fine. My "camera case" is a Pelican 1560. I have a smaller case that is the Tenba Roadie II. I could get by with just the Pelican, easily. It has been my camera case since the C100 Mark I, back in late 2012. I think the Recoil is a waste, better to use that money for an Easy Rig MiniMax if you need handheld support as the camera is built more for that than shoulder and the goal should be to keep it light and get the weight off

I am hoping the C300 Mark II is the last camera like this that I actually own.

In this instance, I would think that a C300 Mark II makes more sense. First, with the C100 and Ninja Blade you have two sets of media and two sets of batteries to wrangle. That's more space. You don't have to shoot 410Mbps on the C300 Mark II. You can shoot 1080 at 160Mbps and 50Mbps, both of them are 10-bit 4:2:2. The difference is that the 160Mbps is Intra and thus easier on your system to decode, while the 50Mbps is LongGOP. For documentary work, I bet you could hardly tell a whole lot of a difference, plus Rec.709 on the C300 Mark II is WideDR and looks better than WideDR on the C100.

Way more noticible with the C100 + Blade with the batteries and cables hanging off than the single 3.2lbs C300 Mark II with no handle on it using the EVF. People still think it's a stills camera. I did a shoot in Mexico like that, but for that one I used the Sony A7R Mark II because that looks even smaller.

Now you're chasing gear and that's always a losing proposition. Canon may or may not announce a C100 successor next month, but definitely not a C300 Mark II successor. That's the C700, already been announced. Not really interested, because I give up size for little spec gain that isn't a big deal to me.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Was eyeing the C100 mk2 myself, but the lack of AF support for all my EF lenses reduce my enthusiasm.

Probably a mk3 will have full AF support for my L glass, and maybe 4K recording, but I suspect thay it cost will be hard to justify for the few projects I am doing these days.

N.F.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

It's only Face Detect that doesn't work. DPAF itself with the centered targeting reticule works with all EF lenses.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Just wanted to point out that the press release date for the original C100 was 29 August 2012:

Canon USA Adds EOS C500 And C100 to Cinema EOS System at DV Info Net


And the press release date for the C100 Mark II was 21 October 2014:

Canon USA Announces Second-Generation EOS C100 Mark II at DV Info Net


In my experience, plotting a new release from Canon based on the dates for previous models is a guessing game that sometimes works... and sometimes doesn't.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Continuous AF does work?
I mean, tracking an object as it moves back and forth.
Or should I press each time the AF button?

N.F.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

There is no object tracking on the C-series. Only Face Detect and center-frame targeted DPAF on the C100 Mark II (the C300 Mark II has a moveable DPAF targeting bracket). The C100 Mark II will DPAF on anything within the center targeting brackets with EF lenses, while Face Detect is limited to very specific STM lenses.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Thanks, so the camera isn't what (I think) I need.
The XF series form factor is ok, but their sensor is way too small, the XC are not suitable for long form events (these Cfast cards are no fun, and the ergonomics are wrong).

Maybe the combination of an 1-inch sensor with a fast zoom lens in the XF form factor is what I want (Sony NX100 comes to my mind). C100 was interesting because I have alot of L glass.

N.F.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

From what the rumor sights are saying and some unofficial chatter I have heard, it's not happening at NAB anyway. Heck, Chris you are probably under NDA with Canon and know but can't say ;-) Totally get it, I've been under NDA with various companies. Let's just say at some point, possibly this year, Canon might come out with a new pro camera, could be a C100 MKIII and could be something totally new and different that is not.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Even if they annouce a mk 3 for the c100 and it has 4k the color space is going to be 4.2.0.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Sorry guys, I think this is going to be it for NAB this year:

Canon announces new 70-200mm Compact Servo zoom lens at DV Info Net

and

Canon USA announces Canon Log upgrade for EOS 5D Mark IV at DV Info Net

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Cool lens but that's a pretty boring NAB for Canon. Too bad, they really need a sub $10k 4k camera.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Here's the full rundown on the CUSA booth at NAB this year:

Canon U.S.A. Hosts Live Production Environments, Hands-On Demos, Education and Workflow Presentations at NAB 2017 -- at DV Info Net

We'll be there to cover the C700, the new CN-E 70-200, C-Log into 5D4, the new EF-S 35mm STM IS Macro and more.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

I suppose it is only a matter of time before a Mark III C100 is released. Just not sure why Canon are holding back on it.

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

You are wondering why Canon is holding back on a rumored camera from unnamed sources that may not even exist?

Re: Anyone hearing anything about a C100 MKIII announcement yet?
 

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. :) Alas I'm an optimist. Besides I predicted there'd be a GH5 long before it was announced. Though that one took a bit longer to come out than I expected. Still worth it in the end.

Maybe Canon will be equally rewarding for those who have waited patiently for an update to the C100. Wouldn't that be nice.