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Canon Cinema EOS Camera Systems
For all Canon Cinema EOS models: C700 / C300 Mk. II / C200 / C100 Mk II and EF / PL lenses.

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Old November 28th, 2021, 04:57 AM   #1
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Replacing C100 Mark I

I really enjoyed using my C100 Mark I. It's time to replace it. I'm not sure what to get. What I liked about C100 was having decent audio recording capability without needing to have an external recorder, I liked the ability of using my Canon lenses, built-in ND filter, and relatively small size. I'd like to have the same capabilities with the new camera but would also love to have a built-in gimbal. I was looking at Canon C70 the only thing it doesn't have is a gimbal. What other cameras should I be looking at?

Thank you
Kathy
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Old November 28th, 2021, 06:37 AM   #2
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Come to think of it, I'd be interested to see examples of what you have filmed and produced with the C100 you are intending to move on from.

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Old November 28th, 2021, 11:03 AM   #3
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

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Originally Posted by Andrew Smith View Post
Come to think of it, I'd be interested to see examples of what you have filmed and produced with the C100 you are intending to move on from.

Andrew
Why? I don't have anything to show as an example.
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Old November 28th, 2021, 11:15 AM   #4
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Iím seeing the Blackmagic BMPCC 6k Pro as a possible successor to my C100 Mk1 DPAF.

It does not have In Body Image Stabilization (IBIS). I think this may be what youíre referring to as a gimbal? However, it:
* takes your canon EF/EFS glass without adapters
* can power and use Image Stabilization (IS) built into many lenses
* has touch-screen targeted auto-focus, but no face-tracking or DPAF
* has built-in ND filters
* is small enough that you can use it with a DSLR-scaled gimbal
* has two mini-XLR (TAF?) microphone inputs, with available simple adapter cables for full-size XLR

And a variety of other good stuff, at a comparable price to what many people spent on a C100.

To support 6k recording on can directly connect a Samsung T5 mini-SSD drive to the camera. Get a SmallRig or similar cage with a holder for the tiny drive. Consider an external battery solution - there are many.

I think you have to go Sony or Panasonic to get IBIS.
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Old November 28th, 2021, 11:40 AM   #5
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum View Post
Iím seeing the Blackmagic BMPCC 6k Pro as a possible successor to my C100 Mk1 DPAF.

It does not have In Body Image Stabilization (IBIS). I think this may be what youíre referring to as a gimbal? However, it:
* takes your canon EF/EFS glass without adapters
* can power and use Image Stabilization (IS) built into many lenses
* has touch-screen targeted auto-focus, but no face-tracking or DPAF
* has built-in ND filters
* is small enough that you can use it with a DSLR-scaled gimbal
* has two mini-XLR (TAF?) microphone inputs, with available simple adapter cables for full-size XLR

And a variety of other good stuff, at a comparable price to what many people spent on a C100.

To support 6k recording on can directly connect a Samsung T5 mini-SSD drive to the camera. Get a SmallRig or similar cage with a holder for the tiny drive. Consider an external battery solution - there are many.

I think you have to go Sony or Panasonic to get IBIS.
I tried Blackmagic BMPCC 6k Pro and didn't like it once it was all rigged out with external battery, SSD etc. It became big and heavy and I cringed each time I had to use it. Yeah, the footage was nice but so what if I hated to use it.
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Old November 28th, 2021, 04:42 PM   #6
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy Smith View Post
Why? I don't have anything to show as an example.
My interest is that I've only helped you with technical problems over the years and I really don't know what you actually do when it comes to filming. Could be street documentaries, could be artistic stuff, could be anything. Curious as to the bigger picture, that's all.

Andrew
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Old November 28th, 2021, 05:47 PM   #7
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy Smith View Post
I tried Blackmagic BMPCC 6k Pro and didn't like it once it was all rigged out with external battery, SSD etc. It became big and heavy and I cringed each time I had to use it. Yeah, the footage was nice but so what if I hated to use it.
How important is sticking with Canon EF mount?
Canon C300 Mk2 (or 3).
Canon C70.

Departing from EF, there are different mirrorless cams from Panasonic & Sony. They donít have internal ND filters, which is one of the contribotors to the 6K Proís size.

How important are internal NDs?

For Panasonic GH-series camera, there are accessory XLR adaptors. How important are XLR inputs for your work? Many/most people who go DSLR or Mirrorless handle this with a separate recorder. How important is having good audio in the original video file? Is a dual-system sound workflow accessible and acceptable?
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Old November 30th, 2021, 05:26 AM   #8
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum View Post
How important is sticking with Canon EF mount?
Canon C300 Mk2 (or 3).
Canon C70.

Departing from EF, there are different mirrorless cams from Panasonic & Sony. They donít have internal ND filters, which is one of the contribotors to the 6K Proís size.

How important are internal NDs?

For Panasonic GH-series camera, there are accessory XLR adaptors. How important are XLR inputs for your work? Many/most people who go DSLR or Mirrorless handle this with a separate recorder. How important is having good audio in the original video file? Is a dual-system sound workflow accessible and acceptable?
How important is sticking with Canon EF mount? Extremely important
Canon C300 Mk2 (or 3). Too big, too heavy
C70, that's what I'm considering right now but stabilization is missing so it would be hard to handhold it
I always found ND filters extremely helpful, I guess I could let this be less important.
I do not want a separate recorder. This is a biggie for me. It's extra equipment, extra setup time and extra work in post. I want to eliminate this step.
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Old November 30th, 2021, 05:27 AM   #9
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Smith View Post
My interest is that I've only helped you with technical problems over the years and I really don't know what you actually do when it comes to filming. Could be street documentaries, could be artistic stuff, could be anything. Curious as to the bigger picture, that's all.

Andrew
It's everything you mention.
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Old November 30th, 2021, 10:30 AM   #10
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy Smith View Post
How important is sticking with Canon EF mount? Extremely important
Canon C300 Mk2 (or 3). Too big, too heavy
C70, that's what I'm considering right now but stabilization is missing so it would be hard to handhold it
I always found ND filters extremely helpful, I guess I could let this be less important.
I do not want a separate recorder. This is a biggie for me. It's extra equipment, extra setup time and extra work in post. I want to eliminate this step.
I have much EF mount glass as well; itís taken me a while to get to the lenses that work for me, and Iím reluctant to part with them.

Most EF-mount have been discussed here. The C200 would be a possibility that checks all the boxes. My impression is that its size is in between the c100 and c300.

Other than that itís a few DSLRs, which donít have the onboard sound recording, and some larger Blackmagic cameras like the Ursa Mini. Actually, Iíve not seen a U.M., and donít have a sense of its size.

Thereís a reason I still have the C100Ö I use many other cameras on projects as needed, but itís always been great at HD at my scale. It doesnít have in-body stabilization either - any of the cameras discussed will power the stabilized lenses you may have been using.

No magic bullets, sadly. It sounds like you want a C100 at 4k. Me too. Instead Canon gave us the C200. Many people donít like itís ďcrippledĒ raw recording; Iím not sure thatís an issue for me.
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Old November 30th, 2021, 05:48 PM   #11
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

What youíre going through is gut-wrenching Ö been there, done that.
Seth and Andrew had some good suggestions. My comment is probably not what you want but I'll do it anyway.

Time to think out of the box? Or compromise?
Engineering formula: Good Video = Good Audio + Good Image + Good Content
Some say that Good Audio = 2/3rds of Good Video, and some say Good Content (clip story) trumps everything. The key word is ďGood ContentĒ!

Given: The human mind can only process so much and when the motion is important, and/or the event is important, then there can be a trade-off. For example, news media is sometimes presented with some of the most ridiculous video imaginable, and yet, Ö the media can sometimes pay big money for it. Why? Because the Content is so meaningful.
Can the video be captured with a cam on a tripod? If not, then handheld is the only way possible.
Not Given: What kind of ďaction videoĒ does one want to capture?

Action video* does not demand the same amount of quality image or audio that one would expect in a, shall we say, formal situation with a locked-down cam.
*For lack of a better term, Action Video in this context to capture a moving/active ďeventĒ, (such as bride & groom first dance, family celebration, extemporaneous interviews, candid shots, etc).

Rationalization: Sometimes the effort to set everything up to get the video takes too long and onerous, one person canít handle it all, so an ENG cam approach is a good compromise. Other situations may call for a less obtrusive cam because it makes people less spontaneous, therefore more reserved.

Cam Kit: The best OPTICAL stabilization available, so far as I know, is the Sony AX53. Unfortunately, it doesnít fit your ecosystem, nor does it tick many of the boxes, at least not without some additional kit. The RÝde Stereo Videomic (with windshield) is a good all-around addition. Filters? It doesnít have any built-in filters, but, by planning ahead, one can have them at the ready; indoor shots probably wouldnít need one, outdoor: UV, POL, ND?

In situations when people are whipping out their phones to take pictures they basically donít even give it a second glance while, on the other hand, a larger rigged-up cam would look daunting and cause some people to become more reserved. In this regard, the small size really helps to get the more candid-type shot.

Because of itís excellent optical stabilization, it does make for a really good hand-held B-roll cam in multi-cam, so this, if anything, might be a consideration to raise the bar in Good Content. While there is a work-around for some negatives, the one downside (for me, I think) would be to match Sony color with Canon color out of the box.

One more thing: This is not an interchangeable lens cam. Or is it? Picked up a mint wide-angle conversion lens VCL-HG0872 for less than $50. These cost new ~750.00 back in the day and were for use on their pro cams. Really nice lens! Works perfectly on AX53 (also the AX700) and makes it a super-nice wide-angle cam. Good for use in confined quarters such as indoors, esp during winter, or below deck on a boat (very confined).

For cams, this is my middle cam; the X3000 (also with optical stabilization) is the sport cam and the AX700 at the other end. The X3000 is for biking and sailing videos, and used once to catch a newspaper thief! Sometimes I even borrow my wife's cam for more B-roll. All cams (and recorder) can be controlled individually with an iPhone, and with an iPad on split screen, two cams can be controlled simultaneously. Been through a torturous kit selection, too, but your situation is different, so as they say, "your mileage may vary". Just wanted to pass along some thoughts.
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Old December 8th, 2021, 04:50 AM   #12
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum View Post
I have much EF mount glass as well; itís taken me a while to get to the lenses that work for me, and Iím reluctant to part with them.

Most EF-mount have been discussed here. The C200 would be a possibility that checks all the boxes. My impression is that its size is in between the c100 and c300.

Other than that itís a few DSLRs, which donít have the onboard sound recording, and some larger Blackmagic cameras like the Ursa Mini. Actually, Iíve not seen a U.M., and donít have a sense of its size.

Thereís a reason I still have the C100Ö I use many other cameras on projects as needed, but itís always been great at HD at my scale. It doesnít have in-body stabilization either - any of the cameras discussed will power the stabilized lenses you may have been using.

No magic bullets, sadly. It sounds like you want a C100 at 4k. Me too. Instead Canon gave us the C200. Many people donít like itís ďcrippledĒ raw recording; Iím not sure thatís an issue for me.
I settled for Canon C70.
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Old December 8th, 2021, 04:52 AM   #13
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Re: Replacing C100 Mark I

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nantz View Post
What you’re going through is gut-wrenching … been there, done that.
Seth and Andrew had some good suggestions. My comment is probably not what you want but I'll do it anyway.

Time to think out of the box? Or compromise?
Engineering formula: Good Video = Good Audio + Good Image + Good Content
Some say that Good Audio = 2/3rds of Good Video, and some say Good Content (clip story) trumps everything. The key word is “Good Content”!

Given: The human mind can only process so much and when the motion is important, and/or the event is important, then there can be a trade-off. For example, news media is sometimes presented with some of the most ridiculous video imaginable, and yet, … the media can sometimes pay big money for it. Why? Because the Content is so meaningful.
Can the video be captured with a cam on a tripod? If not, then handheld is the only way possible.
Not Given: What kind of “action video” does one want to capture?

Action video* does not demand the same amount of quality image or audio that one would expect in a, shall we say, formal situation with a locked-down cam.
*For lack of a better term, Action Video in this context to capture a moving/active “event”, (such as bride & groom first dance, family celebration, extemporaneous interviews, candid shots, etc).

Rationalization: Sometimes the effort to set everything up to get the video takes too long and onerous, one person can’t handle it all, so an ENG cam approach is a good compromise. Other situations may call for a less obtrusive cam because it makes people less spontaneous, therefore more reserved.

Cam Kit: The best OPTICAL stabilization available, so far as I know, is the Sony AX53. Unfortunately, it doesn’t fit your ecosystem, nor does it tick many of the boxes, at least not without some additional kit. The RÝde Stereo Videomic (with windshield) is a good all-around addition. Filters? It doesn’t have any built-in filters, but, by planning ahead, one can have them at the ready; indoor shots probably wouldn’t need one, outdoor: UV, POL, ND?

In situations when people are whipping out their phones to take pictures they basically don’t even give it a second glance while, on the other hand, a larger rigged-up cam would look daunting and cause some people to become more reserved. In this regard, the small size really helps to get the more candid-type shot.

Because of it’s excellent optical stabilization, it does make for a really good hand-held B-roll cam in multi-cam, so this, if anything, might be a consideration to raise the bar in Good Content. While there is a work-around for some negatives, the one downside (for me, I think) would be to match Sony color with Canon color out of the box.

One more thing: This is not an interchangeable lens cam. Or is it? Picked up a mint wide-angle conversion lens VCL-HG0872 for less than $50. These cost new ~750.00 back in the day and were for use on their pro cams. Really nice lens! Works perfectly on AX53 (also the AX700) and makes it a super-nice wide-angle cam. Good for use in confined quarters such as indoors, esp during winter, or below deck on a boat (very confined).

For cams, this is my middle cam; the X3000 (also with optical stabilization) is the sport cam and the AX700 at the other end. The X3000 is for biking and sailing videos, and used once to catch a newspaper thief! Sometimes I even borrow my wife's cam for more B-roll. All cams (and recorder) can be controlled individually with an iPhone, and with an iPad on split screen, two cams can be controlled simultaneously. Been through a torturous kit selection, too, but your situation is different, so as they say, "your mileage may vary". Just wanted to pass along some thoughts.
Thanks for this. It's always good to look at the bigger picture.
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