streamclip comparison
 

Hi guys

So i converted a clip with streamclip using DNxHD codec setting 1080p 23.97 10-bit and it seems to look a bit faded compared to the original. It still isn't smooth in Premiere CS4. I found that if you drop the 7D original clips on the premiere timeline and render timeline, the footage runs smooth on my Quad core 2.4 ghz. Can i just render time line and work with originals or am I getting a quality hit once i color grade?

It looks "faded" because DNxHD is set up for legal NTSC / PAL color and luminance. If your originals fall outside of the legal ranges, then you'll see this on your computer screen. What does the signal look like on the scopes? That is the accurate reference. Computer monitors make AWFUL judges of color and luminance for video.

I also wouldn't expect it to run smoothly if you are using DNxHD 175x. That is a LOAD for most computers to carry. Especially at 1080p. The 7D is running at less than 1/3 the bit rate (though with a tougher codec).

Generally, you edit with the DNxHD 36 on the timeline, and use the 175x for mastering.

In terms of a quality hit, yea, the difference between the DNx and the original files is massive.

I wanted to update this. This is in fact, not correct. The quality slider should ALWAYS be at 100%. It does make a difference. I was able to see it clearly in some night scenes I was working on.

Yes, it's wonky, you have to click the skinny white bar and then you'll get a drop down of all the frame rate/sizes.

I also get the aforementioned luminance hit in the 709 space.

I have a similiar problem. I converted Canon's 7d original file to DNxHD via Quick Time Pro and when imported to Premiere Pro CS3 it seems a litle bit brighter then the original. I dont know if the original falls outside of the legal ranges. I don't know how to interpret the scopes correctly.
On the other hand the original looks exactly the same as on my camera's lcd which is exactly how i would like it to look.

Something strange happens later when i export finished edit back to DNxHD. The footage bec omes even brighter. Anyone knows what is going on?

I've been using cineform since I got my JVC-HD10 camera back in 2006 (give or take), and it's always worked great for me.

Lately many tools such as mpegstreamclip/avid codec seem to be doing nearly the same thing. I've invited David, the CTO of cineform to explain whether there's a good reason to get cineform instead of the free workflow. I think there should be.

What I can say is that color correcting with First Light (included in cineform prospect) is wonderfully fast, you wouldn't believe your eyes! Nevertheless, the color correction tool still needs more features to become my only color correction tool (I still use MB looks).

Hope he can drop some lines here soon.

Best!

Mauricio

If you using CineForm just to file convert to AVI, and quality is not a big factor for you, then the free solutions are fine. Yet there are things happening within CineForm NeoScene and Neo HD that do benefit the Canon DSLR user. First is highlight/shadow detail clipping. Canon selected to place black and white an YUV Luma level 0 and 255, rather than the far more common 16 and 235. Many NLEs handle the extended range poorly and clip off the supers, so much so, originally the Canon cameras where thought to be very contrasty (there were many reports of this.) Later there was a patch to Quicktime that addressed this, but only for YUV to RGB conversions, which means you have to go through a YUV->RGB colorspace conversion to create the new immediate (which likely goes back YUV -- most immediates codec are YUV, otherwise there output is large.) The CineForm approach takes the 0 to 255 (8-bit) and converts it to 64 to 940 (10-bit YUV standard), which avoids colorspace conversions and the banding/contouring that can occur with direct 0-255 to 16-235 conversions, and fixes the clipping issues. I expect CineForm is the only tool using 10-bit precision at this point during the re-mastering (while the high-end DHxHD does support 10-bit, the workflows suggested will on be injecting 8-bit data.)

If you are Neo HD user, First Light will dramatically impact your workflow, allowing you to do deep precision color corrections, very quickly, you can be altering color in real-time during playback. Users generally find First Light very easy to operate, making more complex color corrections than they would with the in-built color correction tools of the NLE, without introducing banding (the biggest issue with 8-bit color corrections.)

In the latest releases of Neo http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform...-pc-betas.html -- all the Canon DSLR metadata is stored within the CineForm files, and through the First Light user interface you can non-destructively display all your camera settings within the video playback, throughout your workflow.

For those using Vegas 9 64-bit, or when VFW 64-bit tool, all the Neo product support 64-bit encoding and decoding components. Most of the free tools are still 32-bit.

There are many more reasons, particularly for Neo HD/4K/3D users, but there is value for purchase with CineForm products.

Cineform and shadows
 

I am currently trying Cineform right now. On my first run through I was comparing before and after 1080p. My first analysis was that Cineform turned the clip contrasty. Then I realized it was Cineform clip that was the improved.

My clip was an interview with my father lit by a single 40 watt bulb. To see the improvements of the clip on my PC screen was a great relief.

Now - $100 or $500? Next test First Light.

Yes, that might be the interpolation that Cineform does from 4:4:2 to 4:4:4. I noticed it too :). Color correcting the interpolated footage is very nice!

Sorry, that was 4:2:2 from 4:2:0 :)

The improved dynamic range is not due to the chroma interpolation (which doesn't hurt either), it is due to the source YUV source range being non-standard with NeoScene fixes (see my previous post.)

Thanks for pointing that out David, my tech knowledge of codecs is clearly not as good as yours :)

Mauricio

Cineform for Canon HDSLRs
 

Here is a post on my blog on Cineform for the 7D:
Cineform for 7D | _mxr blog

Best,
Chris