$2400 in a mo. or so to buy a camera, what would you buy?
 

I was looking initially at any prosumer camcorder with solid state memory/SDHC. I narrowed it down to just the Panny HMC40 that for the price I see a lot of people doing stunning stuff.

My main reason to get a camera is to actually shoot not only my own music videos (I am a rapper on the Latin Urban Music genre) and be able to actually make some money eventually by producing music videos for local and regional artist in any genre, and also to be able to be flexible in order to accommodate clients with different needs ie. Business Commercials, Events, etc, etc etc.

After reading and seeing a lot about this DSLR video camera and seeing reviews and example of the footage produced by these DSLR's i wonder if this would be a better path for what I want to accomplish. I also know that $2400 buying a HMC40 would leave me little money for, SDHC Card, tripod, maybe a UV filter or so, but not much else. I wonder if buying a DSLR like the T2i would give me more for the money and allow me to have things like a steadicam and more accesories or even a lens or two.

Like i said I have read a lot about the DSLR's in general, but wanted to ask you guys, the people that use them and precisely use the T2i on a constant basis what would be the cons of buying it, comparing it to a regular camcorder. I say the cons, because the pro's are so obvious!

Now for the big question, If you had right now $2400 what would you buy with your T2i?

I was looking at the 7D but that is also around $1800 like the HMC40 and i guess i would not have enough money for goodies.

Remember to give me what are your cons compared to a regular camcorder! I also realize that most likely at one point in the future i would need to buy either a regular camcorder or another DSLR to do some type of jobs that would require extended time of continuous recording.

Anyways, thanks for the responses in advance.

Jose

Hi Jose,

T2i body-only...$800
2 x 16gb SDHC $35 each...$70
LCDVF viewfinder...$170
Zoom H4N...$280
Lower-end shotgun mic...$150

If shooting outside:Variable Neutral Density filter...$100

That leaves under $1000 for lenses, which isn't bad if you don't mind older manual focus Pentax or Nikon primes with an adapter. The Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 is also a great lens at $250. Tamron, Sigma and Tokina have some fast options many of which have their version of image stabilization, but hthat may not be an issue if you're going to be on a tripod or stabilizer. If you were shooting events I could give you more direction with the lenses. My need is big apertures, whereas you will have more control of your lighting.

I would take a little different look at the audio, personally.

I run a Sennheiser G2 wireless receiver directly into my T2i's mic port, and get nice clean audio with no hiss. :) You *can* (and should, if possible depending on the situation) run 2nd system audio, but with the right equipment it's not necessary.

I would rather see that extra money go toward a Zacuto Z-finder & one or two fast prime lenses... And rails & a follow focus (Redrock Micro makes a slick follow focus, and it's cheap compared to some others).

If possible drop by a shop that has some things in stock, and see what set-up you're more comfortable with.

Wait, if he's doing music videos, why does he need audio gear at all? The T2i should be perfect for music vids since he's just gonna sync it to the song for audio in post.

Grab the T2i, a couple prime lenses, a Zacuto Z-finder, and you can stay well under $2400 with much better imagery than anything else at that price point.

The OP also mentioned use with commercial clients.

Well, that sounds interesting. To tell you the truth i wish i could have with that amount of money either a shoulder rig or something like the "blackbird" (Is that the right name??? ) stabilizer for around $450 or $650 with for the kit.

Since i will be using this camera for around 95% video, them prime lenses (not that i know a lot of what is a prime lens and what is not) are the way to go for cheap? I mean good and cheap right?

To tell you the truth i have never owned a SLR/DSLR or Pro Camcorder and even though I have done a lot of research on the HMC40 (the only thing bugging me is the low light performance), I have almost no clue on the DSLR side.

Can I get away not buying the Zoom for now ( have no need for good audio if I will be doing music videos for now ) and just buy something like the RODE Video Mic for a general purpose type of sound, and how would i rig that to the T2i?

But can I get away with a simple RODE Video Mic type of setup? I have seen local type of stuff in my area and all I can say is that i could have done a better job with the headset from the PS3. I am an audio type of guy, having to record myself and mix my vocals and then mix them with premixed instrumental on Cubase I have mastered the art of making my $100 studio mic condenser sound A LOT more expensive with a mix of Gates, Compressors and Limiter and some slight EQ =).

Would this be the z-finder you are talking about for the T2i?

Zacuto | Z-Finder Pro 3x | Z-FIND-PRO3 | B&H Photo Video

And my point being is I love smooth shots from them stabilizer rigs, even if it's without the vest & arms of the steadicams I would love to have some sort of thing I can manage to get great fluid motion out of.

[QUOTE=Originally Posted by Bryan Cantwell
The OP also mentioned use with commercial clients.[/QUOTE]

Jose M. Torres-Lopez;1530720]But can I get away with a simple RODE Video Mic type of setup? I have seen local type of stuff in my area and all I can say is that i could have done a better job with the headset from the PS3. I am an audio type of guy, having to record myself and mix my vocals and then mix them with premixed instrumental on Cubase I have mastered the art of making my $100 studio mic condenser sound A LOT more expensive with a mix of Gates, Compressors and Limiter and some slight EQ =)

And i mean TV Ads when I said Commercials. Consider that I never done this for a profit or not. It will take a little time to master my equipment by doing some low budget videos and such before I would try to sell my services to a Business for a TV ad.

Hi Jose,

Yep. That's the Z-Finder. Without it, it can be nearly impossible to get reliable focus if you're going with a shoulder mount or anything where an external monitor is too cumbersome (or you don't have or want an external monitor!).

Jose,

If you've got audio experience & don't mind cleaning up a little hiss & noise then the Rode Videomic on-camera is a great cheap set-up. I've got a friend that uses the Videomic on his 5D for commercials, just runs a hiss filter on the audio and it's good to go. You can just mount the Videomic in the hotshoe on top of the T2i, run a short cable to the mic input and off ya go!

That is the Z-finder I'm talking about, and I can tell you one thing about the new model out now... I would much rather use the mounting frame that attaches directly to the back of the camera then use the metal thingy they've got on there now. You can get mounting frames directly from Zacuto for $12 (http://store.zacuto.com/Z-Finder-Extender-Frames.html), you put it on the back of the T2i (around the LCD screen) and the Z-finder pops on and off. Good stuff.

As for a stability rig, I'd recommend the Redrock Micro Ultraport (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672552-REG/Redrock_Micro_8_003_0089_Ultraport_DSLR_Bundle.html) as a base model. You can build it up into a few different configurations as you have more money to spend. I've got the "Captain Stubling" version (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672558-REG/Redrock_Micro_8_003_0090__Captain_Stubling_DSLR_Bundle.html) which has longer rails and their follow focus rig (which is awesome.). You can also build it into a shoulder mount type thing as well... Lots of options there.

Oh, and a prime lens is one with a fixed focal length (i.e. 50mm) rather than a zoom lens.

So a Prime lens i can focus it (if i am saying it correctly) but can't zoom it in or out because is a fix focal length. Go it.

The only con about them RedRock supports is that they are expensive!!! (edit: The things that i want are expensive, the basic setup is not! =))

I was looking for something more of a hand held feel and I haven't seen a video showing the base configuration in action, I have no idea how would one handle it beside grabbing the handles and going at it. Sounds a bit much like them ring rig type of stabilizers.

Redrock's stuff is only expensive until you compare it to Zacuto or Cinevate!! lol!

This video shows some of the rigs in use, you get an idea of how much this system is capable of... Canon 5D Mark II Rigs at Red Rock Micro Video

That looks nice, and the captain stubling looks awesome, but i was and still looking online to see actual shots with these rigs, to see what the shot looks like.

You see if i buy an HMC-40, i will not have enough room for a 35mm adapter and/or a cam stabilizer like the steadicams or blackbird or merlins of the world. Now my question is, would i get smooth shots close to a steadicam with this rigs from RedRock? I just don't see it.

No, you will not get smooth steadicam like material from rigs like the RedRock ones linked to.

What you'll get are more stable shots that would be similar to a shoulder mounted camera. Shooting handheld with a DSLR is a very shaking experience, so you need some kind of rig to be able to help get the shots more stable, which is what these rigs do.

But they're not going to give you steadicam smoothness.

I don't have anything i've shot with mine online, but with practice it's pretty stable. Like Bryan said, it's no steadicam, but it will rival shouldermounted cams. (and if you cheat with smoothcam in FCP, it gets really good...)

Redrock Micro does have their own Vimeo channel, there's lots of stuff shot with their rigs: Redrock Micro on Vimeo

I was looking at lenses on BH and it was like... wow... so much and such little knowledge on my head.

Is there a link or something you guys can post in here to anything that would let me understand focal lenghts and their usage maybe?

Thanks

PS What would be the focal lengths i would be looking for (music videos) or what are general, swiss knife kinda lenses i should have no matter what i shoot?

Hi Jose

Body - $800
tamron 17-50 - $500+
Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 or 50mm - $350+
8gb card x 5 or 16gb - $100
Tascam DR-07 Portable Digital Audio Recorder - $130
Velbon DV-7000 - $90
Battery grip - $150
Battery made from other brand $10 each x 3 = $30
Benro MP-91M8d monopod - $62
indislider - $100

Optional upgrade:
Lens, Lens, Lens, Lens. Comer 1800 LED, H4n, mattbox, follow focus, shoulder mount, better tripod, quick release, i7 CPU, loads of ram, a good set of keyboard and mouse. Can't think of any at the moment, I am sure there are a lot more. Good Luck filming. :]

More lens info than you'll ever need: Canon EOS Beginners' FAQ III - Lenses

Also, I would not buy third party batteries until your warranty expires, since using them will void your warranty anyway...

As far as lenses, you probably want something fairly wide because of the crop sensor on the T2i. I would think at least a 30mm. The 50mm 1.8 prime is a good one to have because it's cheap and fast.

Do you know about f/stops? The lower the f/stop the more light is let in the camera, also the depth of field is smaller. So at say 1.8 you could shoot at night in a city or indoors in lowish light.

As far as steady-cam stuff, I've been reading some DIY stuff about making them, this looks pretty good:
It's like a blog...only not as good.: DIY Steadicam
Also check out the steadycam section of this site: Stabilizers (Steadicam etc.) Forum at DVinfo.net

Would those lenses allow me to have a good lens for day and a good lens for night or indoors? Is that Velbon DV tripod with a fluid head? or just the legs? and if it's the whole set, would I make myself a favor by going for a tripod in around $60 more than the Velbon?

I like the sound of the indislider. I would love a blackbird i guess, cuz it's like the only steadicam type of thing I think I can afford.



Better tripod than the Velbon. Is the video from the T2i as hard as they say AVCHD is to work with? In terms of horsepower on your PC? I will be making my AMD Phenom II Quadcore with atleast 4-6GB Ram PC and hope is good enough to edit with the T2i or HMC40 footage.

There's an easy way to make sure your computer can handle the video from the T2i or HMC40, or any other cam... Cineform Neoscene! Cineform Neoscene

As for the lenses, when you're looking at the aperture (f-stop) the lower the number the more light it will allow in, so a 1.8 or 1.4 will perform better in low light than a lens that only does 3.5, etc.

So I know I have it down and F stops or Aperture is how open the lens is, therefor letting more light hit the cam/sensors. Shutter is how long the actual action of taking a picture takes, like 1/30th will have the lens open for a longer time than 1/1000th, therefor giving you more light also, at the expense of being sloooww... right? wrong?

In terms of video, do I need to worry about shutter? and what is iris? is this the same as shutter? or aperture?

For what I have taken out of the nice Canon Article Bryan Cantwell linked is that i basically need some sharp primes at around the normal focal length of 50mm @ an F and low as possible for the light.(Most of my video shooting I will assume will be with this lens) and a nice, not overly wide lens on the 20's in mm. (Some recording inside small rooms or tight quarters)

Another thing is that no one has telling me any cons to the T2i or DLSR's when using video as compared to a regular camcorder like ie HMC40, what are the DSLR's (T2i) shortcomings and possible work around or what do I really have to deal with no matter what.

Thanks a lot for everybody that responded really fast to my post. I am still reading what Bryan and other's posted, live n learn right?!?

That works for PC? That is basically trans-coding the files? correct? I was hoping to get a work-flow to be as fast as possible on my budget! If this is the way to go and I don't have to spend too much money on my PC case then it would be nice.

This is my current setup on my Newegg.com wishlist!

ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO AM3 AMD 785G
AMD Phenom II 955 BE @ 3.2Ghz
8GB DDR3 ADATA 1333
HIS H557F1G Radeon HD 5570 1GB 128-bit DDR3 Video Card
Hitachi 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0GB/s HDD

With other stuff like DVD writer for now, and ofcourse PC Case and PSU but that's the meat of the Pc. What do you think? because of transcoding, can I skimp on something in this configuration? Is there something related to the video editing of this camera's that I should consider spending more money into? (the money will go, or come out of the Camera Kit budget =))

Thanks, I think i have a pretty decent PC in there.

My first tripod is the Velbon DV-7000, its a decent tripod, and The Velbon DV-7000 comes with fluid head, indeed, if you are willing to spend more money, go for a more expensive one. Tripod Systems
As you know, you get what you paid for.

For steadicam, I would wait until I have several paid job line up first.

For Indislider, it provides a different dynamic for your video, but slider shot only involves a small portion of the whole video. It really depends on what kind of shot your want to achieve.

For your PC wish list, I would go for i7, I have it for over a year and the price still remain the same, I like AMD, but their performance is far from intel and the price drops every month. I would cut down the $2400 camera budget to purchase a better PC.

I have both HMC40 and T2i, I use Vegas to edit the video. For some reason Vegas handle HMC40 footage without any problem but T2i footage lag a bit in the preview screen when editing.

Like what Bryan Cantwell said, get Cineform Neoscene to transcode the video to avi or such.

My suggestion is, buy the body and tamron 17-50, learn how to use it before dropping money on other stuff.

I see your point in the Inter vs AMD wars, if i wanted to pay over 200 for a processor i would just buy the six-core AMD Phenom II @ just a tad over 200 and way less than the still kinda pricey i7 920 @ $279 , On most benchmarks the i7 is slower than the x6 1055t. But of course there is the mounds of i7 that are way faster than anything on AMD, but they are also almost 1k for the cpu alone.

And remember in some benchmarks like PassMark, the CPU Mark of the Intels are lower than the six-cores of the AMD 1055t ($199) until you get to i7 870 ($579), then the lower priced i7 930 ($288) and you would have to digg deep into your pockets to compete with the 1090t ($299) with the i7 960 ($569) and the other two i7's are more than 800 dollars with the 965, 975 and 980x.

On the benchmarked mentioned the AMD 1090t six core cpu scored 6420, the highest score by an i7 was the 980x with 10,049. which kills the AMD Cpu. But I am not willing to pay more than 3 times the price of the AMD CPU to get less than half more performance. You get what I mean? That without putting into the equation that AMD Motherboards start around 70 dollars and up, and the i7 motherboards start at 150. Nahhh I still don't got it like that!!! =)

Now, did you owned the T2i before owning the HMC40? For video, are you still picking up the HMC40 before giving the T2i a good glance?

I want to get a good kit that I can expand it and with a top price of 2400, this is refund money, I don't come around that kind of money at once too often, that's why I would love to invest in a kit that if learned properly, I can line up some paid jobs and make some Mula out of it.

Since you have both the HMC40 and the T2i, what do you like of one, that the other don't have? or would you get rid of one? which? why? sorry! =)

I just want to have the most complete kit, and having a DSLR with one of my must have's (shallow DOF) is a lot less expensive, but my main camcorder was the HMC40. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

For camera, it really depends on what you want to do. They are both different cameras and serve different purposes. HMC40 is a video camera that can continuously record for a long time, T2i is a DSLR, it will over heat and record 12mins at a time.

I use both for wedding business, HMC40 record speeches, long ceremony, and long reception and it also gives my client a professional impression. T2i is a cheap camera nonetheless, but it allows more flexibility and DOF.

For you budget and your purpose, I would go for T2i since music video is usually short. Also, DOF is your main concern, HMC40 won't give you much to play with other than filming continuously.

And for CPU, since you are so strong about AMD, go for it, it will work as good as Intel.
Well, I come from AMD myself, I used to have Athon 4000+, then I jump to i7 a year ago, it was like going to heaven from hell.

jumping in late but here's my 2 cents since I either own or have extensively used everything you have mentioned...

If you are strictly doing music vids, the T2i with 50mm 1.4, Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 would take you to $1800 and give you some fantastic "looks". You still have enough in the budget for a 70-200 F4L (no IS) which is a great lens for video. ($650) A couple of 16gig cards will be required.

If you need extra goodies for your budget, skip the Tokina, buy the T2i with the kit lens (18-55) and you will have enough for the CMR Blackbird and a cheap tripod. That gets you into the game but remember you won't want to zoom on the 18-55 as it's f-stop shifts causing glitches.

No need for audio. BUT do you have lights?

Commercial side, go with the HMC40 and decent tripod (Manfrotto 501HDV or similar). Also get a Sennheiser G3 wireless lav. Those will kill your budget but are IMHO the minimum you could get away with doing commercial production. They will work great for music vids as well.

Have I mentioned lights?

Bottom line, DSLR's can NOT be used effectively for commercial production as a main camera without a LOT of extra stuff. And even then, it's iffy with the record time limits and overheating. I use mine strictly for beauty shots and rely on my HMC150 for wide continuous shots and pro audio. I have used a friend's HMC 40 as a second cam several times and highly recommend it. If you're trying to start a production biz, you will be able to handle a much greater variety of work with the 40. Won't take long to make enough to add the T2i rig. That's how I did it! (though with the 150)
AND a misconception...you CAN achieve shallow DOF (albeit not as easily as a DSLR) with no extra goodies on any standard video camera. Just have to know how to do it. But that's a different thread!

Hope this helps!

It's like me right now, I am still running on a Athlon XP 1800+ and I run After Effects 7, Premiere 1.5 and Cubase 4 for my Audio Recording. My PC runs better than my daughters PC in the living room and she has a P4 3.0ghz on the hood, and believe me I have done everything possible to help it, but overall I feel the AMD is a better value. nuff said

I am going to reply with the items I have on my BH cart if I was going to buy the HMC40:

Panasonic AG-HMC40 AVCCAM HD Camcorder 1949.95
Rode VideoMic - Camera Mounted Shotgun Microphone 149.00
Smith-Victor Propod III Aluminum 2-Stage Tripod with Medium Pro-3 113.95
(would take opinions on the price range on tripods)
Tiffen 43mm UV Protector Filter 4.23
SanDisk 16GB Ultra SDHC Memory Card 49.95
Genus Shooter Backpack 149.95
and a little lens cleaner kit w a blower 15.95

Total 2452.68 (shipped)

How or what can I replace in order to incorporate lights in here Robert? You bring a good point specially for the HMC40, that it is suppose to lack the Low Light Performance of something like the T2i.

And if I get this HMC40 kit I am putting together, would you say that's a decent kit to start as i learn (by myself) a more pro approach to video? remember I have never touched a pro camcorder in my life! Just have a lot of ideas being an artist myself about the making of music videos.

1. I will get practice with my own material
2. I will take that practice and mold it into something that every artist around here can look at and say, I want that! different, but I want it!!!

then chi ching get back on my investment of $$$ and time, and then I would think about commercial stuff, After I already have done paid music videos first.

Edit: Robert I love the Sennheiser G3 wireless lav set, still pricey for my budget but whenever I have the need for good audio on interviews or commercial applications, I see what I would buy, I love Sennheiser studio mics. But for now, it's way more than I would need in the short run (6-9 months)

That doesn't help me, where is that other thread you mention about being able to obtain a little bit of shallow DOF on a standard video camera without any goodies at? where's the link?

Are you referring to the almighty zoom in, move out (or is it in?) type of thing which will give you background blur to kinda imitate the DOF? or is it the F stop (apperture right?) type of thing I read somewhere around this massive forum?

To answer a few of your questions, yes Cineform is made for and works very well on PC, and iris = aperture. :)

I have said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again... I plug my Sennheiser G2 wireless straight into my T2i and get flawless, no-hiss/no-noise, very usable audio! The Senny rocks!

Your kit specs look good, but you will find yourself needing more than one memory card very quickly! At least two, so you can shoot on one while dumping data from the other... Without having to stop completely while you copy files off the card.

Oh, and if I was building a PC today, I would absolutely go with an AMD hex-core proc. I have an i7 920, and it's dreamy, but for the cost AMD wins the heck out of that contest.

You should also check out CyberPower PC. - Custom Built Gaming PC and Gaming Laptops, specifically their configurator (basically spec your own system) feature. Cannot beat them on the cost, and they use quality components. At least give them a look before you build your own... (and no, they're not paying me for this... but they should!! lol!)

Pretty nice custom built PC site! Actually I used to used companies like that back in the days when I used to do PC's full-time. I prefer to actually piece my personal PC's myself as I know where to cut corners and where not to. But will keep them in mind for a cheap HTPC I need to build for my wife (the only way she will let me spend sooo much money on the cam kit =/ )

BTW Do you suggest a little netbook in the future for when I need longer runs to at least be able to dump one memory like you say? OOOOk

I think you make a lot of sense and I did post on the Panny AVCHD forum what I currently have in my cart based on some info from here. But for the sake of this thread in here I will post the Items.

Panasonic AG-HMC40 AVCCAM HD Camcorder
1949.95

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/487976-REG/Manfrotto_501HDV_351MVB2K_501HDV_351MVB2K_1_Stage_Tripod_System.html
420.00

Also looking at:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/458961-REG/Libec_LS_22_2A__LS_22_2A_Professional_Tripod_System.html
369.99

or less expensive tripods from Manfrodo or Libec @ the 200.00 range in order to get a RODE VideoMic.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674194-REG/Transcend_TS16GSDHC6_16GB_Class_6_SDHC.html
39.50 ea

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/72710-REG/Tiffen_43UVP_43mm_UV_Protector_Filter.html
4.33

My total with the 420 tripod is around 2450 shipped.

If I get a sub 200.00 tripod set with the amount saved, would you think I should buy the VideoMic or for my application (music videos for a good 3-4 months) I should invest on some cheap lighting options since I'm getting the lower low-light performance of the HMC40?

BTW if you wish to respond, please use my other thread on the Panny forum by clicking below.
Kinda building the cart up for future purchase, opinions please!