Would you ditch the 7D for a GH13
 

Well...I did. After hacking the GH-1 (GH13) I felt no need owning a 7D anymore. The color and definition of that camera (and the "mud" gone) in my opinion are now superior. See an example below where I show EX1, GH13, and 7D together. I shot a high detailed scene (where the camera reached 45Mb/sec! AVCHD) and on a Dell 2405fp the definition looks in any aspect the same as the EX-1...Amazing.

It is now, in my opinion, just a more versatile tool: you can shoot all day nature and outdoors (with great definition), and slap an FD lens on it, and get the filmic feel to your picture with the DOF you want.
And now 24p, is no more 60i. It's true 24p. Nice.

Yes, the GH1 does NOT have any real time video out, I can definitely deal with that. In our last trip to Italy we were able to shoot entire days with the "on-board" display - no problem.
I can work around ergonomics, but NOT definition. Sharp, clean images, to me are a must. The 7D side-by-side, just can't deliver the same definition, and it's visible (may be not as much in a compressed VIMEO 720p renderings, but it is on a big screen tv). And the images you get straight off the camera to me show a better all around color reproduction, detail, and are more balanced that the 7D (no need to turn contrast all the way down, for example). MJPEG 720p 30fps, if I can ever get a fast enough card, can output 422 color sampling (Trascend class 10 card apparently can not handle it, I will try the Sandisk)

The hacked GH1 looks like a brand new camera. GREAT JOB tester 13!!!!

Comparison video at: el_cieloex1gh17d


Carlo Zanella
The Santa Fe TV Show

Why does this have to be a contest? Why is it not sufficient to say that the new, hacked GH1 works better for you?

If superior definition is what you seek, then yes, the hack makes the camera a better choice. If performance in low light is what you seek, the 7D is better. If you need to record continuously, the GH1 wins again. If you need to onboard monitoring and send a feed back to video village, the 7D is the better tool. There are some who don't care for the colors that come out of the GH1, hacked or not. I happen to be one of them. I chose a different camera. better for me. Others LOVE the colors that this and other Panasonic cameras have, so they chose what was more suitable for them.

I have 2 Panasonics, 2 Canons, and a Sony. And they all do different things for me.

Why can't we just talk about cameras on their merits without the need to try and make our cameras seem superior to other cameras? Who does that help?

What do you mean by "true 24p"? Did the camera shoot some other version of 24p that really wasn't 24 fps before?

I've seen some decent footage from the GH1, as I have from all the DSLR cameras. But that test is meaningless because you're not comparing the same shots, and there's no information about settings.

I think it would be meaningful for people if you did a GH1 test with another GH1, one with the hack and one without. Then work in some other cameras to see if the GH1 can hold up to the higher resolution and bigger chips. Zacuto did this, but before the hack was available. As it is,your test doesn't show anything that anybody can compare anything to. You have to shoot the same setup, at the same angle, with the same area, with the same lighting, and publish what ISOs were used, what lenses, etc. I could take shots I've done with the 7D and shots I've done with the 5D and even shots I've done with the XH A1, juxtapose them properly and "prove" that the XH A1 looks the best. The GH1 is a decent camera on its own, it doesn't need this kind of thing to show that it's good.

I don't own any DSLR before. I was convinced to get GH1 to hacked for shooting video. There is no time limit, swing out LCD, silence auto focus..+ the hack allow high data rate. What's not to love! the only problem is, all the new GH1 stock you can buy today comes with the new secret firmware that blocks any GH13 update.

and because of that, I returned the GH1 and get 3 T2i. Panasonic could have me as customers and I would buy at least 3 GH1. Now because of their limited vision, I'm sticking with Canon.

It shot 24p inside a 60i stream that required pulldown removal. This caused some problems and headaches.

Panasonic have stated that they did NOT want the GH1 to be anything more than a consumer camera, and have resisted any pressure to target the camera to a more professional audience. They are developing the AF100 for that. Same mount, same lenses, but in a more "video camera" type body. Cost is expected to be about US$6K. Probably a fair price, but outside the realm of what people want from these DLSRs. It's a different market.

Right now, Canon seem to be the only ones truly interested in playing at the low end of the market with these smaller cameras, though Nikon have said they will join the fray in the next 12 months. We'll see.

The GH13 hack actually allow outputing the native 24p stream to file without pulldown inserted.

+1

I'm sick and tired of reading this camera is better than that, blah, blah, bloody blah...

I appreciate what Carlo is saying about the hacked GH1, but given there is going to be a new camera announcement every other week from now until Christmas can we at least keep this forum on topic!

Also if you actually want to take photos I think the Rebel T2i or 7D wins out. I've been unimpressed with photo samples I've seen from the GH1.

It's the target for one thing, but how the consumers want to use it is another.

I'm a 40 year old driving a Honda Element. I love that car. Honda targeted this car to people in their early twenties. So now these older people (like me) starting to mod the car, adding hinge, doing a bunch of stuff Honda didn't expect us to do. =)

Canon launches their high end camcorder record to CF cards. It's a different market. I probably won't spend $8000 for 1 camcorder to shoot weddings. I always shoot multi-cam. So I need at least 2. It will take a lot of weddings to cover the investment cost.

Perrone,

I think your reply is not quite on target. First of all, anything I said was preceded by "IMO". And in my post I never said that the 7D is not a good tool. I think that anybody is entitled to share opinions, especially if offered in conjunction with a video that people can see and make their on judgment on what is the best tool for them.

I don't feel the way you do. It is not a "contest" as you say, it is simply informing people of what is going on (a lot of 7D owners, like I used to be and you and many others) have the GH1 as well. I was skeptic at first (about the hack), and now I felt overwhalmed to share my opinions to others that are in the same boat. Furthermore, I felt my opinions would be constructive since I did own both the 7D and GH1, and I had plenty of chances to analytically compare them.

Feel free however to consult this link to see a test on resolution charts between 7D and GH1:YouTube - ‪Canon 7D vs Hacked Panasonic Gh1 - 1080P 24fps versus comparison - Bundled lenses‬‎

As I constantly see posts of people trying to make up their minds between the two cameras, I personally think, IMO, that these posts can help (that's how we usually form an idea on what we want to purchase, in depth reviews and user's opinions and videos - if we do not have access to the specific item). And that's why in my post title, the main line is a question. Answers and comments welcome!

Best regards.

Carlo Zanella
The Santa Fe TV Show

100% agreed
 

I agree 100% with you. However, my post referred only to the video performance of the camera.

Carlo Zanella
The Santa Fe TV Show

I was actually sold to go with GH1 after watching the series of videos posted by that guy on youtube. However, it was bad timing that I was just one week after Panasonic decide to block the hack. Then ergonomically, I found GH1 isn't that easy to use compared to my T2i.

Bill I agree with you. My post though is not intended obviously as a scentific test, just a chance to share my opinions with others. Everybody watching that video can decide (or get an idea) on what they like best.
Nothing more to it.

If you want to see something more specific, look up the res charts contained in this link:YouTube - ‪Canon 7D vs Hacked Panasonic Gh1 - 1080P 24fps versus comparison - Bundled lenses‬‎

Thank you for your comment.

Carlo Zanella
The Santa Fe TV Show

Too bad they did that. Did you have a certain way to confirm that though?

True, you did say in your opinion. Though I am not sure if your video offered a fair opportunity for people to judge things on. But really, it's no matter.

While it may not be a contest, these constant comparisons, based on little more than subjective uses of the camera tend to make it feel that way. "I used to have camera X, but camera Y is WAYYYY better." Even if the intent is different, it just reads the same.

I think those who own both cameras, or have used both cameras are in a good position to offer some help to those trying to make a decision between them. The problem is that these comparisons often come without context. How are you using the camera? Really, these cameras are more alike than different, but with a few different features that really swing them one way or another based on how they are used.

As far as I can tell, the hacked GH1 offers one significant advantage over the Canon for all uses, and that is a better codec. It offers a couple of other features of use to those doing event work, namely longer recording times, and an articulating screen. For those doing narrative, this is of nearly no importance.

Does this make the hacked GH1 superior? Maybe. Unfortunately, the only people who can have access to a hacked GH1 are people who already OWN a GH1. The new cameras appear not to be hackable, so it's kind of moot offering this advice to those who haven't purchased a camera yet.

The resolution of the GH1 hasn't changed one bit. It's codec is now able to record more of what the sensor sees. That's great. But frankly, after having watched my 5D footage on a 40ft screen, I was pleased with it's look and frankly don't need anything "sharper".

Perrone,

I just think you are alittle bit overreacting to my post. I still LOVE the 7D, but, in my specific situation, since we do not shoot events (and we need only one "dslr looking" camera), when I came to realize that the GH1 could do what I was asking the 7D to do, I saw no good reason to keep both (for field production we mostly use the 2 EX1s anyway). My choice was also dictated by the fact that around the corner there is a lot to come, and a lot that will probably "fix" all of the "functional nuances" of these current dslrs...You know better than me that if you shoot in a tight time schedule, dslrs are not ideal. Picture quality for artistic shots, 100%.
GH1 to me always offered, in my opinion and for the type of work we do, an "in between" option, due to the video implementation of that camera.


Has anybody proof that the new GH1 is NOT hackable. Just curious. Let's ask Tester13 :-)...

Carlo Zanella
The Santa Fe TV Show

Entirely possible.

And this, is the crux of the matter. The problem, is that you didn't offer any information about how you were using the camera. Just that you felt the GH1 was superior. Clearly, for a number of uses, it is.

VERY true.

Agreed.

Yes, those people who've recently bought new GH1s and have found they couldn't hack them. And are now stuck with a camera they can't hack. Been reading about it for weeks now.

I bought my GH1 at amazon end of July. It comes with firewire 1.3. Those older stock comes with fireware 1.2 that can be hacked. The secret 1.3 fireware is not hackable.

Someone bought from B&H in mid july still comes with 1.2 fireware and able to hacked. Ever since, other reported that B&H is now selling the new stock.

My GH1 is of course an older one, but, when I hacked it I downloaded the 1.3 firmware from the Panasonic site. I was able indeed to hack it just fine. Wondering if at Panasonic they do something else to block the hack of the unit, since apparently I upgraded mine with the same firmware they ship the new ones with.


Carlo Zanella
The Santa Fe TV Show

Has anybody confirmed the hack is completely blocked ?

I don't think anybody can confirm that. From my experience, you might have a higher chance to get an old stock from your local camera store. Get to the menu to see if the firmware is 1.2 or 1.3.

If the camera is now locked, it'd seem the old jist of this thread is moot.

I'd be interested in the Panny, not because it's allegedly sharper, but because it's moire free.

GH-1 Vers 122 just purchased at BH
 

There are still people buying the GH1 with firmware V 1.22. See attached link.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...-r-1-22-a.html

I haven't been able to find evidence that the new cam can not be hacked. We may have to wait to hear Tester13 for a last word.

As for my settings, all of the footage in the sample video was taken with the stock 14-140 lens and an Olympus pancake lens 17mm F2.8.

Today I increased the AVCHD bitrate to 60mb/sec...Incredible what this little thing can do with this new firmware.

Carlo Zanella
The Santa Fe TV Show

It's currently un-hackable, but since it's only software, it's only a matter of time before a solution is found.

I've just spent a month shooting with my 7D and GH13 on a cross-Canada trip, both stills and video, and they're complimentary. All my longer glass is EF mount and the 7D is still much faster stills shooter with 8fps and AF, and the GH1 + 14-140 is a great general purpose video + stills machine.

Up until the last few weeks I've been a 7D owner from that latter part of 2009. I have since bought a GH-1 and hacked it. I have to say Carlo I definitely share your enthusiam. This is a new camera. The 7D is a great camera no doubt but I feel the GH-1 has changed the game for me. The articulating LCD makes me shoot more comfortably (though I never bought an external LCD for my 7D which could have helped). I'm now able to buy Canon FD lenses (without the extra element in front of the adapter). Asde from the obvious gain in resolution though I am happy about no moire and a lot less aliasing. As far as the colors are concerned I am able to match my old 7D's color with "Nostalgic" mode on the GH-1. I used to think most GH-1 footage looked in-cam-over-sharpened. But shooting in that mode gives me the flatest/softest image....but detailed.

Canon FD lenses!
 

Thanks Ian for you comments.
Please look a the list of FD lenses I purchased and tell me if you think they are good choices and what you would add to it:

Canon FD 50mm f1.4 Breech mount with "chrome nose"
Canon FD 28mm f2.0 Breech mount
Vivitar 28-105 f2.8-f3.8 with Macro
Sigma 28-70 f2.8
Sigma 70-200 f2.8-f3.5

3 adaptors: one from ciecio7, one from Amazon, and one from ebay

All of this for less than $600!!!!

And, of course, the stock lens plus the Olympus PEN 17mm 2.8

Thank you.

Carlo Zanella
The Santa Fe TV Show