Wedding Equipment
 

I'm making a big jump from SD shoulder cameras to DSLR. I have two very, very nice weddings coming up. Between the two, I will be attending a two-day seminar with Adam Forgione (Pennylane Productions). I expect I will get more solid ideas concerning equipment, and lenses in particular after my first DSLR wedding and again after the seminar. But, I'm looking for some input from some of you seasoned wedding/DSLR pros, as to what I might need at a minimum to do a good job on the first wedding. As a side note, the bride knows I'm using brand new equipment and using a new shooting style and I am doing it at no charge as a learning experience. I thought this the responsible thing to with everything being so new for me. So, here is a list of stuff I happened to already have (none are stabilized lenses):

Canon 50 f/1.4
Canon 35 f/2
Canon 24-70 f/2.8
Canon 70-200 f/4 (I know f/4 is questionable but I'm hoping this will work for my first gig)

Canon 60D
Canon T2i

Manfrotto monopod with swivel head

I have plenty of good tripods if needed and all the audio gear I'll need

So, here's the list of stuff I think I'll need:

Slider thingy
Manfrotto 561BHDV - fluid head monopod (if they ever get off back order)
(6) SDHC class 10 cards
Memory Kick portable storage device to backup SDHC cards
Wide angle prime or zoom lens
Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS $990
or
Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 (non stabilized) $599
or
Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 (vibration compensation) $599
or
A prime wide angle of some sort?

I'm hoping I can do a few "glide-cam" moves with just a monopod and a wide angle lens. Is this an unrealistic expectation?

Thanks for any suggestions or input.

Geoffrey

I forgot one important thing - I feel like I need one more camera. Should I get a small HD camcorder to roll for the ceremony or another DSLR???

Hi Geoffrey,

I think you've got a good start on your equipment. A couple of things stand out for me:

How do you normally do processionals and recessional? (I stay at the front of the church off to the side and go high on a 4-step ladder when the guests stand up for the bride's entrance.) I personally can't cover a processional well without a lens with IS. I used the Canon 70-200 4L IS which works very well in a decently lit situation but I sold that and got the 2.8 IS version, which is still not fast enough to keep the iso down sometimes. I've tried shooting with a 135 1.8 but the results were predictably not so good. (I was able to smooth out the result with a stabilizing filter.)

The portable storage for your cards isn't necessary in my opinion. If you feel the need to back up asap (I do) bring a laptop. I put together an SDE for nearly every wedding anyway so this has just become part of my day - constantly transferring cards to my computer. (I never erase cards at the event. That only happens when I have all of them backed up in two locations.)

I love the Tokina 11-16. One of the best investments I made.

I have 12 16gb class 6 cards and on a normal day rack up approximately 100gb of footage.

Definitely get that slider-thingy and dedicate a tripod to it so you're more apt to use it.

A long-run camcorder is a good thing to have. I run a Canon HV30 from a high angle or the balcony in back with the intention of only using that footage if I have to.

With my big JVC DV5000's, I used to stand in the back with the bride/dad and the bridesmaids and my assistant would stand/sit in a pew half-way up the aisle. So with the DSLR's I was thinking I'd do basically the same thing except instead of handholding, we'd use monopods - The aisle cam using a 50mm or maybe the 28-70 zoom and I could use a 35mm in the back. It's hard to think through the lenses I'll need for each segment when I'm so used to having one big, fast, zoom.

Do you think my 70-200 f/4 (non stabilized) would be OK for the ceremony if I don't try to do pans or any camera moves?

Do you think I'd be able to do glidecam-like moves with the 11-16 with just a monopod held out at arm's length? I'm going to pick up a wide-angle tomorrow once I make the decision and I suppose I can do my own tests.

Thank you very much!!

Hey,

I know what you mean. Its a big tradeoff, but in the end it just means you have to think more about your position, which isn't a bad thing. I'm now thinking about zones of 'in-focus' coverage with a stationary camera rather than zooming for the correct composition.

The 70-200 is about as 'versatile' as you can hope for. Wider-range zooms are slower at the long end and narrower-range zooms are very limited in reach. The fact that you'll be closer to the action (in the pew rather than at the front of the church) means that you won't have a long focal length that can cause jumpy camera work.

If you practice, go slow, and use your legs yes - you can make them work. May mean a few takes to get it right. I think if you see what you can do with the slider you may end up using that more for shots that don't demand moving your feet.

I totally agree with Joel on the Tokina 11-16. It's a wonderful lens. The 70-200 f/4 is a weak link for darker ceremonies, so it just depends on your lighting conditions. Think of it this way, depending on how light sensative your previous cameras were, shooting in the f/3.5 to 4 range with DSLRs will be about the same to worse than your video cameras. There are a lot of variables, but it's a good general rule. You need to go with lenses of f/2.8 or faster to get a low light performance upgrade.

A big gap I see is a faster, longer lens. I really like a lens in the 85mm 1.4 range for tight shots during special dances or anytime you need a tighter shot from a distance in low light. It looks like you are going with a lot of Canon glass, so if you want to stay with Canon they have an 85mm f/1.8 for about $375 or if you want to go for broke, a Canon L 85mm f/1.2 for about $2000. Another alternative is the Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 for a about $250. It's sharp, fast and cheap. It just doesn't have auto focus for stills.

I use a Glidecam 2000 and a DP Slider and the Tokina 11-16 works great on both devices. I also like using a 50mm 1.4 on the DP Slider. The DP Slider is so solid, just about any lens will work with it.

Another thing to consider is a shoulder style mount, especially since you are coming from shoulder mount cameras. There are dozens of choices out there and I recently did a review on three of them. You can read the review here.
EventDV.net: The Event Videographer's Resource

My advice is practice around the house a bit. You have to get used to how these cameras are affected by micro-jitters and jello effects. Pans probably have to go half as fast as you may be used to. Also, its important to nail the exposure and white balance in the camera instead of post, IME. I personally like the monopods or run and gun style (gorillapod or travelpod) to be less intrusive during the reception.

Whats everyone's experience with those memory card backup drives? When I looked it seemed to take an hour to backup a card with video from the specs, but I've never actually used one.

Vivitar has a manual focus only 85mm 1.4 for the Canon that may be good enough for video.

What the best thing for Geoffrey to use to enhance judging focus? I can't see relying on a bare LCD screen, I can't see holding my eye to a loupe all day, and a low cost external monitor can be cumbersome, and also you only get a downgraded output from these cameras while recording.

which of the pennylane work shops are you attending?

Chicago. You thinking about going to one?

No personal experience yet, but here's part of a review on the MemoryKick. MemorKick Review - Alex Mustard

-----------------

The download speed is astounding. A completely full 8GB CF card takes more than 20 minutes to download into my laptop via my USB-2 card reader. The same card on the MemoryKick took less than 3 minutes and then just another further 3 minutes to copy onto my laptop and read into Lightroom.

Here's a list of things you should have if you want to seriourly have a stab at doing weddings with a DSLR:

1. A camcorder.
2. A spare DSLR body.
3. An assistant/second camera operator.

With these three things you'll have a bit of a safety net if you need to quickly change lenses, or if a body overheats. You'll also need:

4. An audio recorder such as the Zoom H4n.
5. A loupe such as the Hoodloope or Z-finder.
6. Some kind of shouldermount/stabiliser for handheld shooting.

Geoffrey, I am also attending the Chicago workshop and will have the Tokina 11-16, you are welcome to take the lens for a test drive. It looks like you may have a wedding before the chicago workshop, is that correct?

before i bought some of the lenses i rented them, you could rent some for your upcoming wedding and then compare to the info presented at the workshop.

You guys in Chicago are lucky to have rental places locally. In Milwaukee the last shop that rented lenses closed up nearly 10 years ago. Makes me think I should start a S.E. Wisconsin lens rental business. Great excuse to continue my lens buying addiction.

Joel,

The first step is recognizing one's addiction : )

Geoffrey

Wow, good to know about the MemoryKick. For focus I use a mix. When on the tripod I use the loupe, when handheld the lcd. The more you use it, the more you get a feel for it.

One thing, as I was going through footage last night and working. These cameras basically resolve at 720. So there is no real quality hit when dropping from 1080 to 720. By delivering at 720 you get to crop your video and take advantage of rules of third, etc if you want. The gig I'm going through was my first one with the cameras, and I made the mistake of handholding the camera and the footage is jittery. The problem with fixing the stabilization is that you need a software that deals with the jello effect like mercalli. Mercalli can clip and create a border in your footage. Looking back I wish I had not filmed so close, and might experiment with shooting more loose in the future. Also, highly recommend newblues flash plugin. Gets rid of about 2 of the 3 flashes you get in footage. More:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/adobe-cr...s-premier.html

Joel,

I am a few hundred miles south of Chicago. which is probably a good thing or else i would spend all of my money at frys :)

borrowed mine from lensrentals.com

Thank you for the offer. I look forward to meeting you.

I think I better pick one up today so I can start practicing to see what kind of moves I can do with it. I was thinking the Canon 16-55 IS lens might be more useful because of the stabilizing feature, but the forum seems to be unanimously in favor of the Takina 11-16. And it's cheaper!

Thanks John. I think I have everything you mentioned already or they're on my shopping list.
-I'm going to get a T2i body tonight for a 2nd DSLR. I might get a third body.
-I'm looking at a Canon Vixia HF S200 camcorder for around $800
-My college aged son is my 2nd camera and my wife will be the PR person
-I have a Z-finder and I guess I'll need another
-I'm going to go without a shoulder mount device for wedding #1 and just use monopods as both a tripod and as a glidecam. I'll re-evaluate after the first wedding and after I attend the seminar.
-I've ordered a .75 Meter long HD Glidetrack

I use my DSLR for B-roll for a montage and multiple video cameras for the important elements of the day.

If you wait a litle bit you can get one of the new Canon camcorders with the new and very much improved sensor. Going from the cheaper upwards, model numbers in the US are: HF M400 $650, HF M40 $700, HF M41 $800, HF G10 $1500, XA10 $2000.

Expect them to be much better in low light as they share the same sensor that goes in the XF100

A bit too late with this but this slider 50KG Tele lens Camera Camcord slider dolly track 5d2 7d - eBay (item 120672581291 end time Jan-26-11 08:39:52 PST) looks like it is going to be much smoother than the glidetrack thanks to the roller bearings (found thanks to cheesycam.com).

John's suggestions are good. I would ad a second camcorder (pro-level); two decent tripods-handheld video looks amateurish. Two wireless lav mics. Use the DSLR for montage video but not the ceremony or reception. The montage will look great.

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

If you are considerng a third camera, I think you should stick with a dslr. I slowly transitioned from video cameras to total dslr's last year. The last holdout was an HV30 that I used to stick up high and in back and just let it run, just in case.

Now I run 3 7d's and 1 60d and I don't have to worry about matching footage in post.

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

I've used a Hyperspace HD80 for 5 years, and now have a Hyperspace UDMA. Both are capable of copying a 32gig CF card in 15min's - and I've done so _many_ times.

The last wedding I did as a photographer w/ some video, I was able to backup the cards from all cameras quickly btwn sessions, pretty good since btwn my wife and myself, I had 6 different cameras going for stills and video.

So it would seem that the Hyperspace, Nexto and MemoryKick are all about the same speed, but each with a set of features that set them apart.

Hyperspace - cheapest, only one with user replaceable HD's and batteries but least number of features
Nexto - most expensive but there's quite a few different modes, some video capable and can handle some of the specialty memory formats like SxS, P2
MemoryKick - good USB support, able to copy to/from/btwn USB devices, possible future video updates, but B&H lists their models as discontinued.

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

Consider the $650 Canon T2i with the Magic Lantern firmware to let the camera run for over 80 minutes with a 32GB card and just one battery. This has replaced my $3000 "real" video cam for the unmanned-back-of-church shot.

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

Did you ever match the 60D with the HV30? Can you share any secrets? This is my current setup: 60D, HV40, HV20
FCP7

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

I'm sorry to lower the tone, but where I come from, 'wedding equipment' has very different connotations.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

This is what im about to try, how has this been going for you?

Do you lower the bit rate or turn of lcd to save space and or battery.

Cheers

James

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

No, one of the features of magic lantern is continuous shooting. It shoots the normal 4 gig/12 minute video clip then cuts filming for 1 second and starts a new 4 gig/12 minute run. So its not technically 100 percent seamless but lets be real, you're going to cut every few seconds in post.

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

and yes, you do turn off the lcd, which you can only do with magic lantern

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

Easy.. if it's your first real event with the DSLR workflow, bring a backup camera that you're very familiar with... whatever camcorder you were using before would be ideal. Chances are, the DSLRs go just fine, but if not, she still gets here wedding video.

One thing in particular about Canons and Weddings.. you do only get your 10-15 minutes of recording... once you hit the 4GB limit (inherent in all FAT32 files, which means any camera using SDHC memory cards), it doesn't just open another file like a video camera, it stops. Period. Done.

Film people aren't phased by this in the slightest, because a normal 35mm film load goes 10 minutes. But for event work, this means you absolutely need a B camera. And if that B camera is also a DSLR, you need enough overlap to ensure that the two are staggered enough to get "A" going again before "B" stops.

If you have a Canon that runs MagicLantern, you can opt to auto-restart recording. This doesn't deliver a continuous stream, but keeps the video going, with 1-2 second delays in-between (no ML yet for my 60D, but I know satisfied users, and have donated to the 60D development effort here: 60D - Magic Lantern Firmware Wiki)

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

Not really.

Cameras that use the AVCHD format (like the Panasonics for example) can create a new file and keep on going.
Actualy the record limit is there because of the Fat32 file system plus the inability of the recording format to create a new file. AVCHD overcomes this problem.
The new file system inroduced for the SDXC cards (exFAT if I remember well) will allow for larger than 4GB files and will overcome the problem in a different way.

Re: Wedding Equipment
 

You left out the part of my quote that made it clear I was discussing the Canon HDSLRs in particular. The FAT32 4GB limit is hard -- no files on FAT32 larger than 4GB. And since SDHC requires FAT32 (it's part of the standard... obviously, you can format it as NTFS, ext4, XFS, whatever 64-bit file system you like on a PC, but it doesn't work in other devices).

Yes, video cameras usually keep going. Panasonic (I own the HMC40 and TM700) starts a new file precisely at the 4GB boundary -- you have to catenate such files together to avoid a glitch, but it works fine. Other camcorders, Sanyo for example, close out the GOP and open a new file, apparently, but leave a gap of a few seconds. It's not a matter of AVCHD or not, it's simply how well or how poorly the device's firmware deal with file management.

And in the case of the Canon HDSLRs, they just stop. It has nothing to do with the recording format, it's simply that manufacturer's implementation of that format. And if you run Magic Lantern firmware on your Canon (not available for my 60D yet), you can "keep going" automatically, though there will be a gap of a few seconds in-between files.

Again, not part of the AVCHD specification. It's generally expected that video cameras will keep recording for some time... Panasonic consumer cameras, for example, will keep going, but only for 12 hours, regardless of how much storage you have. Even in time-lapse mode. Also not part of AVCHD, just an arbitrary decision they made. Some AVCHD cameras end files on GOP boundaries, some on 4GB boundaries. Some HDSLRs keep recording in new files, Canon doesn't. Maybe they have their reasons, but it's just a simple matter of software -- nothing remotely related to the Quicktime wrapper or any other firmware element preventing this.

Yes, it's exFAT, also sometimes called FAT64, and yes, it allows for files larger than 4GB. Which is the only real point of SDXC vs. SDHC, the electronics are identical (well, SDXC cards can run a faster hardware protocol, but they're pin and signal compatible). And both the more recent Canon and Panasonic cameras and camcorders support SDXC... but are they using the requited exFAT? Don't know... I do know my TM700 will not recognize a 32GB SDXC card formatted with exFAT. Have yet to buy any 64GB cards, not just due to price but the fact they only worked in the TM700, at least until I got the 60D.

Now, obviously, a 64GB or 128GB SDXC card could still be formatted with FAT32, and thus still incur this limit. Or the devices could use exFAT, but still impose the same limit, as annoying as that would be. And in fact, from what I've read at least, the 4GB limit exists, SDHC or SDXC, on the Canons (well, so far, only the 60D, T2i and T3i support it). This could be fixed in firmware (hint to Canon), at least for those not residing in the EU. And for that matter, even the EU guys could go to 29'59" before Dieter and Francois Law come gunnin' for their illegal camera.

The SD Card Association's official formatting utility (yeah, they have one) will only write FAT32 to SDHC, and in theory, only write exFAT to SDXC.