New 60d advise
 

Hi folks

New 60d arriving tommorow, cant wait, just a few questions anyone to help... as i understand i need for video footage sandisk class 10 or class 6 extreme, 8gb or better 16gb do i get 20mb or 30mb or does it not matter??
When i do my photography days and not video do i need the extreme and can i just get the cheaper class 4 or do i need 6??
I have a 50mm 1.8 + a 18-55 kit lens, a broken 17-55mm canon 2.8 but wasnt keen on it anyway? so i have lens in mind?
help me choose bearing in mind i need both video and stills.. so tamron 17-50 2.8... sigma 30mm 1.4 prime..... 24mm 2.8 canon, cant afford the 1.4.... 28mm 1.8 canon... tokina 11-16mm 2.8.....help. steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

Tokina 11-16 and Tamron 17-50 are two of the most highly recommended lenses for video with the Canon DSLR's.

As for primes, have you considered checking out older Nikon and Pentax glass and using adaptors? No autofocus for stills but you'll save a ton of money.

Re: New 60d advise
 

Hi John thanks for reply, yes i have looked into older glass but everytime in the description it either says dust on the glass and a little fungus and a little this and that so it has put me offfff. steve

Re: New 60d advice please
 

Hi all just to add with the 60d, what do you guys in general use for picture quality, neutral or faithful? what other settings do you find best? obviously weddings my game!! Bruce has given me some great advice, would like to hear from others with their settings and workflow.. so shutter 1/50 pal, iso 100/400 if poss, fast primes going for 28mm 1.8. 85mm 1.8 and got 50mm 1.8, possibly 24mm 2.8 or tokina 11-16 , set my white balance? does anyone use auto wb? p mode, av mode, or full manual??? steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

hey steve, I'll bite
I use the 7d
ISO settings on 160, 320, 640 and double that there on out, if I have to go up to near 1600 I use NEAT video plugin to remove noise, although, most the time, I actually sort of like the noise for some of the work that needs a little nostalgia feel anyways
I usually stick to the 180 degree rule with shutter speed, that is twice the frame rate, although I have no problem with lowering it to 40 or even 30 (i am in Europe so I almost always shoot in PAL) to get more light in, instead of opening up too much or increasing ISO, I find this works fine and adds a touch more motion blur which is a plus not a minus
White balance, I start with a preset, then roll the color temperature to what I find is the best (not always the one that matches actual white most)
For picture profile, I use neutral, have played around with some of the more radical flat settings but I find that neutral is best for minimal grading, especially since I have to hand over material to other editors for broadcast and when I edit myself, usually the turnaround time for the project is too short to do anything beside minor correction and some added contrast.

I shoot with tamron 17-50 2.8, canon 70-200 2.8 and some vintage primes in 28, 30 and 50.
It seems more and more that the 30 is the one that stays on my camera the most
I might get a tokina 11-16 2.8 eventually.
that is my personal kit, the production company I film for equips me with the 5d and a canon 24-70 which is way better than anything else on the 7d, especially when it comes to low light, but 90% of what I shoot is with the 7d anyways( a little frustrated as the t2i, 60d and 600d seem to all be of more value for their price)

Re: New 60d advise
 

Thanks Chris i appreciatte your reply, first lens is the 28mm 1.8 then as the reviews just give the 28 the edge over the sigma 30mm, and to cover i will get the tamron zoom for stills. The 85mm maybe to give me something longer in the church as i cant afford the 70-22, I am not a lover of the flat look, my brides love colour tone! to them they just want good colours good footage nice and smooth, so would that be neutral with standard settings saturation default?? i will introduce the 60d and then see how it goes, still use my cams for now?? thanks again

Re: New 60d advise
 

interesting, what brand is the 28 1.8 that got better reviews? there is really hardly any noticeable difference IMO between the 28-30mm IMO, I was considering updating to the sigma 30 1.4, but if that 28 1.8 got better reviews, I might have to re-think!

As for the longer lenses, IMO it does get harder to 'catch' footage with longer lenses on DSLR's than it is with a HD video cam like , thanks to short focus and so on. But some churches are pretty dark, so it could be a trade off. I've only shot a couple of wedding films, not really what I do, but do have some clients that sort of forced me to film relatives of theirs.
If you have to record whole ceremonies, I'd probably stick with the Video camera and then get supporting footage with your DSLR that will be more attractive.

As I said about picture settings, use neutral if you aren't looking to grade much.
The flat settings that you can download are to give you more leeway when you grade, so you'll get more color and so on in post. This isn't something that there is any one answer too.
Way better cinematographers then myself will probably shoot super flat, because they can grade. I shoot and for my own projects have my own settings that I like, that (I HOPE!!!) have my own look. Sometimes I leave my stuff to other editors or have a director or DOP over me, they often decide my settings.
More often than not, my clients, editors, DOP seem to more and more just want the footage shot in neutral.

Re: New 60d advise
 

Hi Chris

It was on the rockwell photography site, he says the canon 28mm 1.8 is better build better focus system, overall similar picture quality, but looks the part also as its the same colour black as the 60d 550d 7d 600d.
Also the 28mm is built to last and the sigma cheaper build? Will try various picture setinhgs!! What is your prefered settings work flow ie shutter, iso, apeture, focus, film, when you get to an event? steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

Steve, congrats on your new 60D. It's a great camera.
1) You don't have to go with the expensive Sandisc cards, Transcend Class10 cards are the best VFM in the market.I would go with a couple 32GB cards.
2) Tokina 11-16 is a great lens, the Canon 28 f1.8 is fine but I really prefer the 30 f1.4 Sigma. I have to dissagree with Ken Rockwell's verdict (as do many other tests around). For a 50mm for video use, no way I would chose the Canon f1.8 with the inaccurate, flimsy,short travel focus ring. A used MF Olympus or Pentax Tacumar would be my first choice. Actually any old MF (except FD or MD mount) in good condition would be a better choice. The 85 f1.8 is a great lens but if you don't shoot stills then maybe the Samyang 85 f1.4 should also be on your list.
3) The Neutral picture style as is is fine if you don't colour grade, otherwise knock down the contrast at -3 or -4 and saturation at -1 or -2 if you do.Faithfull will give you redish skin tones (not my favorite)

Re: New 60d advise
 

Hi Spiros thanks for your input!! Do you have a link for the class 10s as im struggling to buy them, they seem so expensive at the moment, would class 6 do as it says in the manual... Is the picture setting neutral default neutral? So key that in user define 1 and save it or just use default neutral? Lastly Spiros i do actually do stills also so im in a bit of a mind bending decisions, here are my choices!!! i have the 50mm plastic fantastic, and 18-55 kit lens, was thinking to buy tamron 17-50mm vc, or sigma 17-50mm, the 28mm 1.8 canon, or just go all primes 28mm, 50mm, 85mm, and zoom with feet!! or get at least one zoom mentioned as i think i am guna need that for stills!!
or i could get tokina 11-16mm and the 30mm 1.4 sigma keep the kit lens and the 50mm 1.8 for lowish light!!! steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

Hi Steve.
Re class 10 cards.
http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/prod...ucts_id=110291

Re: New 60d advise
 

Steve, for picture style I suggest that you start with the default neutral setting and adjust contrast and saturation to your taste.
IMHO you will need to knock down contrast and saturation a bit even if you don't plan to colour grade in post.
I find -2 contrast and -1 saturation to be very pleasing in the eye without any colour grading. However this is a very subjective thing.
Since you also do stills the 85 f1.8 is an excelent buy. Also a nice alternative to the Tokina is the Samyang 14 f2.8. It is a manual focus lens and not as wide as the Tokina but at that focal length AF doesn't help much anyway, 14mm is wide enough most of the times, it's very sharp according to reviews and it is much cheaper.
I also think that it is good to have a fast f2.8 standard zoom with build in stabilizer so I'd suggest that you get that Tamron 17-50 VC.
When I was shooting stills with my 20D I could shoot everything with my 17-55 f2.8 IS and 85 f1.8, for video you might need something longer sometimes but the best lens for this is the pricy 70-200L 2.8 IS.
Sigma has also anounced a new stabilized version of the 50-150 f2.8 which is probably going to be a nice alternative to the 70-200L Canon.

Re: New 60d advise
 

Colin your a bloody star...... i forgot about transend and concentrated on sandisk???? steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

Spiros you are a bloody star also mate thanks... steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

I don't think class 10 cards are needed. I shoot with the T2i using 32GB class 6 cards and never had a problem. We use eFilm & Transcend. Unless I'm mistaken, the 60D will output the exact same bitrate and file type as the T2i.

Re: New 60d advise
 

Totally agree regarding class 6 cards, have been using Transcend class 6 in EX1s for nearly 2 years, never missed a beat. But just as well buy class 10, here in the UK they are the same price as class 6.

Re: New 60d advise
 

Thanks everyone..

Re: New 60d advise
 

Really getting to grips, but still intrigued how others use their dslr..

1. Is it possible to hold the camera like a camcorder with a flash bracket handle to the left and camera hand grip to the right or visa versa, or will there be to much shake, does anyone not use a shoulder rig and mono pod??

2. Having practiced a couple of days, is there a way of saving in settings that you have filmed earlier on, so say guests arriving and filmed and looks good, then go inside then have to change all wb, and iso, and apeture leaving shutter as 50 in my case, then go back outside to previous filming, can i just key in a preset to take me to where i was before or do i have to just make a note in my mind what i did previously then adjust settings to that??

3. When you set your shutter speed in my case 1/50, then i have sorted my wb, if i then start with say iso 160 or 200 in the good light, then i have to only now move the scroll wheel to finalise my apeture, how do i know i have the apeture right or is it just knowing what it will turn out like on the computor monitor or do you all have a certain setting in mind, say for good light, (shutter 1/50, iso 200, set white balance, apeture at say 5.6 or do you all set to the metering mode at the middle stop?? When i turn the scroll wheel to change apeture obviously the camera screen goes either lighter or darker, how do you guys know when its right???

4. For the morning prep do you guys use the monopod or shoulder rig because most homes i go to are tight rooms and hence why i ask the question no 1 above.??

5. Having filmed all auto this morning the footage looked crisp clear and fantastic and i made a note of the settings, then when i went full manual i did the same settings as auto and all was fine, then when i moved the wheel and started to change apeture and iso, the footage did not look as crisp?? is that just me?? steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

Steve, do yourself a favor, and if you can make yourself afford it stay with SanDisk. While Transcends do seem to have a much better record than the other "bargain brands", the reports I've seen on Transcend problems have mostly involved TOTAL data loss.

SanDisk and Hoodman RAW have had the fewest problem complaints, most of the few I've seen on SanDisk have involved operator...?failure?...Such as failure to initially format in the camera followed by constant "erasure" of individual files while allowing still and video files to accumulate on the card, allowing the card to "fill up" (sooner or later you will risk FAT corruption), and similar.

Transcends have been reported to start showing buffer problems in Canon DSLRs if not reformatted before each new video project, SanDisk should still be reformatted before new video projects but generally don't show buffering problems this way.

I just picked up one of these:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/733801-REG/SanDisk_SDSDXP1_016G_A75_16GB_Extreme_Pro_SDHC.html

Faster and LOWER PRICED than the EXTREME Class (10)! While the 60D will function just fine on a 20Mbps Class (6) and doesn't need the extra speed of this one, maybe it's a bit of future proofing as I tend to keep my media longer than the cameras (although of late I've kept the last two cams when I purchased the 60D). Plus being waterproof and shockproof.

Re: New 60d advise
 

I have always advised people to find something they find reliable, and stick with it. I most definately have never thought of Transcend cards as "bargain brand", anything but". Bruce finds Sandisk and Hoodman reliable, I dont doubt for one minute the merits of these cards, it is simply that I have used Transcends in EX1s for nearly 2 years, and more lately in my 550D and Sony Nex-5. None of the cards have ever missed a beat, in any of the cameras. I dont really know where all the reports of malfunction come from regarding Transcend cards, I have seen no more reports regarding faults with them, than with any other well known brand. I have never had a problem with buffering with the 550D, my "personal video" card has been slowly filling up for the last 6 weeks, it has not been reformatted at all during this time, no problems whatsoever. I have no reason to doubt the reliability of the cards I use. It is really a matter of finding something reliable, and sticking with it.

Re: New 60d advise
 

Colin,

Not trying to start an argument here, and I have no doubt Transcend cards are giving you good service. Their performance over the last few years has been head and shoulders above others like A-Data, Patriot, Lexar, Dane-Elec, and even Kingston (a supposedly well reputed brand).

For the last few years I've followed media problem reports in several forums and while the trouble reports on Transcend are far fewer than the other brands mentioned, I still see just enough to make me wary of depending on that brand. I haven't kept statistics on it but the Transcend failure reports I've seen are over 7 times those of SanDisk.

If I were doing weddings (the "ton" of those I've done were all in the "film" days) I would somehow opt to use only the utmost reliable brand card out there. Right now that looks to be Hoodman RAW, SanDisk comes in next. As to why I class Transcend as a "bargain" brand, I just checked B&H in NYC and Transcend prices on Class (10) 16GB SDHC run under half the price of SanDisk.

I'm not a "brand snob", and Transcend is obviously serving you well. But my advice to Steve remains the same, he's doing weddings and I wouldn't take the slightest chance I didn't have to. I'm retired from pro photography and most of my work is personal or for video "challenges" but I still ask myself the question, "How am I going to take it if the video I just shot isn't there when I get home?".

Here's a thread you participated in on buffering problems. Started out with Kingston media but couple of guys chimed in with the same problem with Transcend and with Patriot:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...y-message.html

Re: New 60d advise
 

Whilst i always listen to every advice from people that know more than me, i generally then have to make my mind up at some point. i have just received two transends from amazon and twice yesterday the message came up stopped recording automatically??? then after a 2 second pressing the record button again, the cam started to record again?? the other day with the 8gb sandisk from amazon not one problem, also with the transend i had some artifacts on the monitor like glitches then i had blu screen, when i restarted the computor all was fine?? now i dont know wether that was the transends but i better be carefull, as bruce says, when introducing the 60d to the weddings in a couple weeks time i can ill afford any corruption. steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

I've used lots of Transcend cards, on camcorders, DSLRs, and more recently my 60D with the 32GB class 10. You do only need class 6, but the faster the better once you hook things up to the PC. Faster cards also work for you if you're shooting burst stills.

People like to recommend SanDisk because they make their own flash memory, and they're not a wrong choice. But Transcend's been around a long time (founded in 1988 in Taiwan) and, at least in my experience, they make a quality card for a good price. I have also used their ATA flash drives to replace old HDDs in 80's vintage logic analyzers (20-year-old $50,000 gear still has some value at $500 today).

Re: New 60d advise
 

Check you math there.. 20Mb/s would not support the 60D.. the peak video write speed is about 44Mb/s (just looked that up, I thought it was a bit less). And it wouldn't be class 6. Class 6 means a minimum guaranteed burst write speed of 6MB/s = 48Mb/s. Class 4, not surprisingly, means a minimum 4MB/s write speed = 32Mb/s.

There's no standard for read speeds... so lots of memory card makers post higher read speeds, which are usually peak speeds. Your camera doesn't care, but certainly, faster reads mean you have faster transfers to your computer.

Re: New 60d advise
 

I'm not real good at math. Maybe I got Mb/s and MB/s mixed up. Here's one card I got recently that works well in my 60D (no buffer bar and overflow), and an 8GB version of the same card has worked the same in a T1i I used to own, and also works well in my T2i.

It is plainly marked 20MB/s and Class (6). The SanDisk Exteme III Class (6) all were originally 20MB/s until the 30MB/s "edition" started showing up. Then shortly after that we started seeing Extreme Class (10) 30MB/s cards.

Here's a link to one I ordered a few weeks ago:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/677598-REG/SanDisk_SDSDRX3_016G_A21_16GB_Extreme_SDHC_Memory.html

Now I'm using these mostly with the older cards as extras to have along.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/733801-REG/SanDisk_SDSDXP1_016G_A75_16GB_Extreme_Pro_SDHC.html

Re: New 60d advise
 

I have a degree in math, and in electrical engineering... not that it matters. There are many different ways to measure the performance of a memory card. The one that really makes a difference for video, and at least sets the performance floor for anything else, is the sustained write speed... how fast am I guaranteed to always be able to write to the card. The SD Card Association understands as well that that's the critical factor, so that IS what the "Class" value means. A Class 6 card guarantees 6MB/s = 48Mb/s of write performance.

Of course, that's a problem for card markers trying to convince you that they make a somehow better card than anyone else. But the simple fact is, if any SD card can guarantee better write performance, you know the manufacturer will raise the "Class" rating.

There are other specs, of course. Read speed is always faster than write speed. Some card makers still use the "x" rating system for read speed -- how many times faster is your memory card than a 1x CD. So you could find a 100x Class 6 card and a 133c Class 6 card... they both guarantee a 6MB/s write, but they latter will likely read faster than the former. Of course, there's also no standards organization enforcing that "x" rating... do they mean guaranteed, average, or peak?

A card maker might also tell you about their average or peak write speeds. For video, all I care about is minimum write speed... if it's not met, my video will get trashed. But for still photos, I might be happier with a Class 6 card that averages 15MB/s writes than a Class 6 card that only says "Class 6"... maybe the former card gives me better typical performance. I don't know, but the SanDisk or Patriot marketing people know you'll THINK they have a better item there.

In the particular case of the SanDisk Extreme® HD Video SDHC™ card you pointed out at B&H, if you read the details, they claim " Up to 20 MB/sec read and write speed. Based on SanDisk internal testing; performance may vary depending upon host device. 1 megabyte (MB) = 1 million bytes." So they're telling you the peak speed, the fastest it will ever go. And based on the nature of flash, read is always faster than write.. this is like specifying "up to 120mphs, forward and reverse speed" for your car. Chances are, you aren't getting anywhere near that peak in reverse.

Not that faster read speeds aren't useful... they just aren't much use in-camera. Once I get to transferring video and photos to my PC, I love a card that's as fast as possible there.

Re: New 60d advise
 

Ok so 2 60d weddings down the line... love it, love it, love it,, but.....i have a few gliches when played back, like artifacts?? only on a small amount of the footage, is this the transend cards? the computor is i7 2tb 6 gig ram nividia graphics, or is it the adobe prem 8 wont take the mov? then again from the raw footage i get the artifacts so? will i have to upgrade to cs5 or just use a transcoder like cineform or mpeg streamclip? if i use a transcoder will it keep the full hd footage? ive noticed also that the glitches are around a certain time i have moved the camera ?? steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

anyone know what this is? transend sd card, monitor, software? camera, steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

Let's solve all this issues of doubt and go back to digital to tape. It works so well for me...mark

Re: New 60d advise
 

Tape? Ewwwww. I'd rather eat worms.

Re: New 60d advise
 

I have been using Transcend cards for years now and had no problems so far.

stelios

Re: New 60d advise
 

I wouldn't be cheap on memory card if you are doing paid job. Transcend seems to be a good choice but I would go with Sandisk. My photographer came home with a new corrupted Transcend card. It's not someone I heard on the internet but my own photographer. Then I came across this thread

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...-think-so.html

Just ask yourself can you afford loosing footage after coming home from a wedding. I can't. I rather not take any chance.

Re: New 60d advise
 

I've seen the exact case with a Sandisk card.
My experience so far says that failure has nothing to do with the card's brand. It can happen anytime with any card. Shooting with multiple cameras looks like the only safe solution.

Re: New 60d advise
 

Of course nothing is guaranteed in life. Using Sandisk doesn't mean it's 100% error proof. I don't mind getting ADATA or Transcend for my own digital camera for personal use, vacations, parties. But for paid job, I would rely on Sandisk.

Re: New 60d advise
 

Thank God for my Z5 that I can tape on a card and on tape at the same time!

stelios

Re: New 60d advise
 

I am not sure.. but I think it is your computer.

Did you try to play the video on something else?

Re: New 60d advise
 

sorted ages ago, it was the cheap card reader.... cheers

Re: New 60d advise
 

Steve,

I had a similar problem with a 7d that I had the same msg and kept stopping recording. Its because I had used the card in something else and needed to format the card in-camera. Then since then no problems.

-Steve

Re: New 60d advise
 

Problem sorted, it was the card reader... cheers guys

Re: New 60d advise
 

on the topic of cards...from personal experience the PNY class 10s are good cards especially for the price...I use the 8 and 16Gb but I do NOT recommend the 32Gb....for some reason the 32Gb buffers out pretty bad and takes at least 5 tries to get the card going and maintain for the full 12min....I learned that the hard way...8 and 16Gb I have had no problems since I got them...