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-   -   GL2 / XM2 Frame mode (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-gl-series-dv-camcorders/3415-gl2-xm2-frame-mode.html)

Marco Leavitt April 7th, 2005 07:19 PM

Another vote for frame mode. The loss in resolution isn't noticeable on a regular television anyway.

Leonardo Silva Jr. July 6th, 2005 02:55 AM

quote from Frank: "If you were shooting, say, still life stuff, then interlaced would actually give you a -slightly- sharper image."

This means if i will be using my gl2 for wedding events it will be better with interlaced? thanks again.

Frank Ladner July 6th, 2005 06:40 AM

When shooting a still object w/ no camera motion, you should get a sharper image if using interlaced vs. frame mode because interlaced is capturing plain fields as opposed to using an interpolation algorithm like frame mode does. But...how often will you be shooting something that doesn't move?

In events such as weddings, you'll naturally have lots of movement so you would see the effects of interlaced vs. frame-mode. As far as what would be better....well.....that's a tough one to answer because it depends on what look you're going for, what the bride & groom would want...etc...

The last wedding we did with our GL2 was shot in Frame Mode. The bride, groom and their friends / family noticed that it didn't look like a regular video, and they liked it. I can imagine in some cases, though, that they may want the 'regular video' look, because it's what they're used to.

If you wanted to play it safe, you can just shoot interlaced and if you decide to output it as pseudo-progressive (frame mode), then you can just do the After Effects (or other NLE) trick of blending upper/lower fields at 50% to give you that look.......or if you don't want to do that (or the customer doesn't want that look), then you have the interlaced footage.

Let me know if you need more details/clarification.

Leonardo Silva Jr. July 6th, 2005 06:27 PM

Thanks frank, one more question, that you shoot will GL2 in frame mode and it looks different, you mean it's like a cinema for frame mode? thanks in advance. :)

David Ennis July 6th, 2005 09:32 PM

People (some more than others) detect a bit of stuttering in the motion of objects in frame mode sequences that they also detect in film.

So frame mode can contribute to achieving a cinematic look to video footage, but there are many more things to consider (camera moves, depth of field, diffusion filters, etc) if that is your goal, and many of them are said to be more significant than exposure modes .

Frank Ladner July 7th, 2005 06:48 AM

Leonardo: Right - frame mode does look more cinematic than interlaced. This is due to the fact that film is 24 progressive frames per second, and TV is 60 interlaced frames per second.....so 30p is closer to 24p than 60i.

Fred is right, though - if you are going for the cinematic look, a lot of other factors contribute. (lighting, camera handling, grading/color correction etc...)

...but framerate still plays the largest role in giving a film/cinematic look.

Tim Agnew July 14th, 2005 02:48 PM

How to tell Frame from Interlaced in DV
 
Anyone know how to tell footage that was shot in FRAME mode in the GL2 while previewing it on a PC? I cannot tell the difference between interlaced and FRAME, and I'm not sure which I shot. Help appreciated.

Ken Tanaka July 14th, 2005 03:10 PM

On many, probably most, scenes it may be impossible to distinguish by watching footage on your computer monitor. Remember, the primary viewing target for video is a television. Your computer uses a completely different method for displaying video which, to a degree, eliminates the differences between these modes. As far as your computer is concerned bother are interlaced video.

Tim Agnew July 14th, 2005 04:17 PM

Thanks, Ken.
During editing of footage shot in frame and interlaced, is it possible to have these rendered in each method in the same movie? Or, does it have to be all Frame or all interlaced? I use Media Studio Pro.

Ken Tanaka July 14th, 2005 04:22 PM

Again, from the computer's point of view there is no technical difference between Frame mode footage and Normal mode footage. Each comes in interlaced at 60i. Only the GL2 knows that it has preprocessed that footage to get more of a progressive-sccan look.

From an aesthetic view, however, it may be best to use a good production monitor (or at least a good consumer television) as you edit to best judge how well the footage looks when cut together. That's really the ultimate determinate, assuming that you plan for your work to be shown primarily on a television.

Boyd Ostroff July 14th, 2005 04:49 PM

I haven't ever worked with Canon's frame mode, but I suspect you could see a difference in shots where there is some fast motion. With interlaced video you will see "combing" on the moving areas where the two fields don't match. I'm not familiar with PC editing software, but in FCP you can choose an option of whether or not to show both fields in the viewer. If you aren't viewing both fields in your software then you probably won't see any difference between frame and interlaced.

This site has some good examples of interlaced vs deinterlaced frames: http://discussions.info.apple.com/we...Dl.0@.68ab7b77

Kyle Ringin July 14th, 2005 05:05 PM

I've used Panasonic's frame mode for a few things, and it's pretty easy to tell the difference - first your preview must be at full resolution, then go to a frame where there is a horizontal movement of either subject or camera eg a person running across the frame, or better still a pan or dolly shot. If it is interlaced (and the NLE is setup to show the full frame) you'll see interlace combing. If there is no combing, it must be frame mode.

As Boyd said, if the NLE is set to deinterlace the preview you won't see it. In Vegas set the preview window quality to best-full.

Cosmin Rotaru July 18th, 2005 06:38 AM

In Vegas, "project manager" or whatever the name of the window - where you see all the clips you're using in the project - look at the clip's properties. It says if its interlace or progressive.

David Ennis July 18th, 2005 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmin Rotaru
In Vegas, "project manager" or whatever the name of the window - where you see all the clips you're using in the project - look at the clip's properties. It says if its interlace or progressive.

I never noticed that before. Now I see it works in Vegas's version of explorer too, and you can point to any directory with that.

The comb effect gives a very clear indication, but this is much quicker and easier. Great tip, Cosmin, Thanks!

Kyle Ringin July 18th, 2005 06:03 PM

The clip properties is a good, fast indication. The frame mode on my panasonic is automatically picked up by Vegas as progressive. But the footage can lose this flag sometimes, depending how it is rendered, etc. but viewing the footage and looking for combing is a sure way of identifying interlaced video.

Mike Hardcastle September 8th, 2005 01:47 AM

Frame Mode or Deinterlace.??
 
Howdy all,
Using my XM2 as a second camera for weddings, trying to match 25p prog on my XL2 used as the primary camera, I've used it a couple of times in normal 50i mode and then de-interlaced using Mike smart(sony vegas) and DVFilm Maker, would I be better shooting in frame mode, and would it save me some resolution and sharpness, plus would the motion be closer to the 25p of the XL2.??

Cheers Mike

Rob Lohman September 8th, 2005 07:50 AM

If the XL2 is in 25p mode I would opt for frame mode on the XM2 indeed. However,
as always, do TEST this BEFORE you shoot a one-time event like a wedding!

Tim Agnew September 11th, 2005 12:10 PM

Capture setting for Frame mode
 
Anyone know if I need to set my capture settings to Frame when moving footage shot in the "Frame" mode on the Gl2? I had been capturing with the DV setting and it renders fine- just curious if I should be changing this.

Help appreciated.

Tim

Mathieu Ghekiere September 11th, 2005 01:16 PM

I think you'll best just leave it at DV, especially if you haven't had problems with that so far.
Actually I don't really understand your question very well, could you explain somewhat better, more in detail?
If that's your question - Frame mode is just being read as interlaced DV. It looks like progressive, but it isn't (in PAL, in NTSC it almost looks like progressive, but a little bit different)
So settings to capture frame mode are usually the normal setting to capture normal interlaced DV.

Tim Agnew September 11th, 2005 01:37 PM

You answered it, thanks. So, Media Studio Pro reads this footage as regular DV interlaced, correct? Thanks again

Mathieu Ghekiere September 11th, 2005 06:20 PM

I don't have Media Studio Pro, but I think it should work fine, capturing it as interlaced.
Best regards,

Nathaniel McInnes September 12th, 2005 01:53 PM

What is frame mode and what does it do?
 
Hi
What is frame mode and what does it do?

Boyd Ostroff September 12th, 2005 02:12 PM

If you really want to get into the nuts and bolts then here's an article which discusses frame mode and compares it to true progressive scanning:

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasoni...ressive-WP.pdf

Mathieu Ghekiere September 12th, 2005 04:38 PM

Nathaniel it's very wise for you to do a search on the topic on these boards too. I found this for you:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=frame+mode

As you see, the topic has been discussed to death.
Have fun reading ;-)!

Len Imbery November 16th, 2005 10:26 AM

Frame mode -->editing question
 
Hi all...I'm a new Gl2 user and was wondering about frame mode shooting....Who here uses it regularily?
I find the look of it very hard to discern as opposed to the regular interlaced mode and was wondering if I still capture it into my computer the regualar way?....or do I have to change the settings in my software too?....Is the rendered video then output still in the frame mode or would it be converted to 30fps interlaced?....and would the final output still retain any of the differences that the frame mode introduced?
thanks
Len

Jean-Francois Robichaud November 16th, 2005 12:54 PM

As far as I know, your editing software doesn't know the difference between regular 60i and frame mode. Just capture and edit it the way you would edit regular footage. And yes, the rendered video will retain the qualities of frame mode.

Gian Pietri July 6th, 2006 01:02 AM

60i or frame mode?
 
I have read posts discussing shooting 60i and then converting to 24p especially for possible film transfer, but what about straight to DVD? I have a few projects planned that I would like to distribute solely on DVD. Should I shoot in 60i and then convert to 30p or just use the 30p FRAME MODE.

thanks,
The Gian!

Don Palomaki July 6th, 2006 04:07 AM

Why not place a bit of each mode, using scenes typical of the planned final production, especially fast action scenes, on a test DVD or two to see which you prefer?

Test wil probably work best if tested using intended primary viewing equipment and the bit rates planned for the final DVD.

Tim Johnson July 6th, 2006 08:49 AM

i say use 60i and convert to 24p using magic bullet. purely because some programs are better than others at deinterlacing (theres a few articles out there showing this). Magic bullets results are much nicer.

Rami Ismail July 11th, 2006 10:50 PM

I never really realized this but today while I was filming with my GL2 when I switched between frame mode, which I always film in, and normal mode, I noticed that there is noticably more grain in frame mode. It seems as if frame mode lowers the quality of the image drastically and adds a lot of grain, even in very well lit situations.

I have magic bullet and mainly used it for the look suite. Now I have decided now to film in 60i and deinterlace to 24p in post.

Try it for yourself and if you notice the quality loss then I would suggest filming in 60i and deinterlacing later.

Gian Pietri July 12th, 2006 12:23 AM

I would love to record in 60i and then de interlace in Magic Bullet. Only problem is that I cannot afford (or have been able to find an alternate way of aquiring) Magic Bullet. If I were to somehow aquire Magic Bullet what format should I de interlace to if my final outcome is DVD? 24p or 30p?

Robert Brown October 12th, 2006 01:09 PM

Canon GL2 Frame Mode & Capturing w/ 3rd Party Camer
 
I normally shoot video on the GL2 and capture with a consumer level JVC camera to limit the wear on the heads of the GL2. I've just begun to shoot in frame mode for a few projects. Will it make a difference if I capture using the JVC camera? Or am I basically throwing out the frame mode information?


Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Jarrod Whaley October 12th, 2006 01:24 PM

Won't make a difference at all. I fact, you can even capture an XL2's widescreen 24p with any $300 miniDV camcorder. Whatever is written to tape by any mini-DV cam is 100% readable by any other miniDV cam--the only exception being that fact that footage shot in LP mode may not play back on a different cam.

Thomas Fraser October 12th, 2006 08:51 PM

DV deck
 
I was planning to buy a DV Deck, but, seeing that a $300 cam will capture just as good, I have changed my mind.
Is there really any advantages to buying a DV Deck ?

Graham Bernard October 13th, 2006 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Fraser
Is there really any advantages to buying a DV Deck ?

Yes:

PROS
#1 - You know where it is ALL the time and it is usually plumbed permanently into the workflow: PC<>DECK<>External CRT colour Corrector screen. The Firewire connection rarely needs to be unplugged!

#2 - It is SOLELEY designed to deal with tapes and as such has other tape transport features. Mine takes larger format tapes. I do mean LARGER not just l o n g e r.

#3 - It would normally have a more "robust" transport system to a camera. Others are gonna say that they've been using a camera since 1892 ( yes that IS a joke!) and are happy.

#4 - My deck has a mass of connections and therefore doubles-up as Mission Control system for AV<>DV<AV<>DV links a to and from analogue and OTHER streams. On the front it has a whole set of "other" inputs RCA phono jacks for dubbing and these are duped at the rear too. The rear has not only the phonos but also SCARTS and SVGA outs too.

#5 - I not only use it to shuttle back and forth, but also to rewind/cue tapes for shooting back in camera. I don't use the XM2 for this .. oh no.

CONS:

#6 - It is completely useless as a holiday camera! I've tried. Where, if I DID use a cheapo camera for transport then I might take it on vacation with me! As it happens, this way I would NEED to now buy a modestly priced DV camera to do so too.

Bottom line here, if yah don't need one, your throughput is less than demanding for most times of the year, then don't get one. We've heard here that people DO use a cheap camera for transport, take it on holiday and it is STILL going strong as a transport device.

If you would prefer to spend the money on getting a better tripod, a light, a mic instead, then go for it.

I was fortunate, I got my deck 2nd hand from a chap who was retiring from the biz (Oh! An indication here as to its previous use too). About 1/4 off the price. Use it most days and love the reassurance that its "clunk" gives as it securely deals with my hard won footage.

Don Palomaki October 13th, 2006 04:21 AM

Agree with Graham. The main advantages of a DV deck are for folks doing serious or professional work and lots of it. Much faster tape handling and ability to use full size DVC cassettes arre among the advantages I find most helpful. (I can back-up a 2-3 hour program on one tape in DV format at SP speed.) They also tend to have a large footprint.

However, some decks, e.g., the Sony GV-D900 series, are essentailly a camcorder class MiniDV transport mechanism, and provide corresponding tape handling speed.

Tim Hupalo October 19th, 2006 08:24 AM

I find that the decks can help with bad tapes as well. Using a cheapo corder to transfer to computer sometimes cant capture as well as a deck that has what I assume are more durable and senstive heads.
I had some footage that had some artifacts on tape and showed up in FCP from a GL-1 used as a capture device but when I captured on a JVC Deck the capture was clean.
so personally I choose decks over cameras.

Alex Sprinkle January 19th, 2007 01:46 PM

Frame vs. Normal
 
Which is ideal and in what situation? I've never used Frame, and I lost the manual a while back, so I don't even know what it's for. Opinions?

Bradley D Barber January 19th, 2007 05:07 PM

Do a search here for "GL-2 Frame Mode" and there is a thread that really has great info.

I learned some neat things there.

Don Palomaki January 19th, 2007 05:14 PM

Some folks like frame mode because it comes closer to a film-like effect than normal movie mode. But it does introduce artifacts, especially if there is rapid motion or a pan/tilt in the image. After reading the other posts on the subject, try it in a tesdst environemnt to see if it provides effects you want to use.

If you need a manual, download it from the Canondv web site.


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