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No ringing? A sharpness setting of -1 doesn't mean no electronic sharpen it just means it is lower. No camera I have ever known will go out of it's way to blur an image. It just doesn't work that way. Why would Canon spend the money to develop the worlds first in camera blur chip for a $1,000 camera? That is just the way images work from cameras. Eki prooved that you can bring back a good deal of the sharpness by adjusting contrast and sharpness. The rest that cannot be brought back is due to the fact that the image is already compressed and that the camera processes the sharpness right from the bayer information. Since the math is forming the new pixels from the bayer pattern it can process a new level of sharpness for those new pixels. Different bayer formulas create different levels of sharpness and detail. Give me a raw bayer tap from the HV20 chip and I will give you an image with just as much detail as the TV mode. Without working with the bayer pattern of course a sharpened cinema mode image will not look exactly the same as one from the TV mode. Again though I cannot believe how much you are nit picking such a small thing on a $1,000 camera. This is not a defect and not a mass conspiracy from Canon. |
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Also search in this forum for someone posting a comparison of a kitchen shot in cinemode and normal. I love that it shows both strengths and weaknesses (window is overexposed in normal, but does show more perceived detail). I personally find for sunny conditions I'd use normal mode, but in low-light I would consider using cinemode since I don't like the RGB noise caused by the high gain. So even if you're not a fan of cinemode, I think in low-light you might reconsider (provided it doesn't make the picture too dark). |
Why does this all matter?
Whether you have a 99 cent paint brush or a $10.000 paint brush, it's still the artist who creates the masterpiece. Dave Rice |
Do you guys have too much time on your hands...
Everyone... this is good information but is now starting to get beyond understanding the limitations of your tools of choice. I don't think we took the JVC 100 and other HDV cameras through this much subjective testing and discussion last year.
I mean in the final analysis how many of you are going to project your HV20 footage on a 60 foot screen?? Not many. And no one watches television, HD or what have you, 6 inches away from a monitor. (The 200% blowup is out of context in my opinion) Even if you're concerned about losing detail through post grading and correction and effects I'm sure for $1100 this camera will shine. Especially because it cost $1100. If you need more quality and detail than this, spend more money or rent an F950 Cinealta. Thanks for letting me vent. Now back to our show "Subjectivity" here on DVInfo. Cheers. |
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(not that I have proof of that, but it's what seems most likely to me) -Stu |
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I'm sure the compression has something to do with it but I think it's more plausible that Canon simply did a sloppy port of their CINE MODE from the A1, where the 'softening' worked perfectly with little to no loss of detail because it was finetuned for the A1's CCD's. |
How about this (and maybe it has already been done...if so sorry i missed it)..can someone with an A1 run the same comparison in their preset #8 (not sure if it's called Cinemode)? I believe all the settings for this mode in the A1 are listed somwhere on this site (I have seen it a few times myself but don't know where to find it). This would tell us if Canon did a "poor job" of implementing it in the HV20. Just a thought....or is it overkill?
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I know that this was asked early on in these postings, but weren't there some HV20 owners here that also owned the Intensity (Pro) card that could actually test without any compression for us? I called a local video supply store here in Dallas, TX (the only store that Black Magic lists are carrying their Intensity cards here in town) to buy an Intensity card and all they had in stock was the Intensity Pro and I couldn't see spending the extra hundred for it.
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It could very well be that the in-camera noise reduction is tweaked to look good with all the regular modes, which should in theory have more noise than cine mode, especially after sharpening. With cine mode's lower noise and low contrast image, the noise reduction algorithm would be too strong, and eat up low contrast detail, just as we've seen happening. If we get some HDMI-captured footage and it shows the same loss, noise reduction is probably the thing to blame. If not, then it's HDV compression. |
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They probably simply ported it without enough tweaking to a lower end machine, resulting in a too drastic loss of detail compared to the HV20's other modes. |
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