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As far as the whole gamma issue (PC/Mac), I have found a solution... Well, at least a reliable way to display.
The new flash player can display H.264 movies. I have embedded a .m4v and .mov that look spot on (as far as gamma)... across all platforms and browsers. The only downside, the player update is very new, so not everyone has it yet... but they will. |
Aldo, most colors should be fine. Anything in the green range will get obviously get desaturated... You may want to be careful with yellow as well -- it might be best to shoot some tests if you need to protect yellow.
Les, the new version does indeed work in Motion (2.0 and up) and FCP (5.1.2 and up)! Scott -- good to know! Thanks for letting us know what you wound up doing. |
Ben - I gather the video tutorials are the hang-up for the release of dvMatte Pro 3.
Any chance on posting a quick demo from the creator using: http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/snapzprox/ showing the proper use of the plug-in along with Screenfix, etc? BTW - this thead is missing messages posted after Dec 22. |
Tutorials are the Delay
Les,
The tutorials are the delay. I posted it to the main forum, but it got bounced off. The talent is ill, so until that person recuperates, they're holding off the launch. DVGarage is a small company, and you can only launch a product once (in theory). Being sick is no fun, so hopefully they get better soon. Best, Anthony Torres (fwiw-I called for the straight scoop.) |
Hey guys,
Yeah, Alex has been sick, and then I had some problems ensuring the demo versions would work in FCP 5... I did record screencasts for the beta test, and those might find their way online as well, I'm not sure. Regardless, I'll be recording some screencasts once we launch to show people some more advanced techniques. Stay tuned! |
quick question... I have dvMatte blast, is it more efficient to use in final cut or motion... or does it not matter.
When I say efficient, I guess I mean quicker. Seems like it takes a while to render in FCP, but I have not done much testing in motion. (waiting on my new mac pro to ship) Any insight would be great. |
Ben - I use ProRes 422 HQ. I've just realized that ProRes has no alpha channel, which kind of blew me away.
What is the best workflow to move between FCP and Motion, letting each do what it does best? Almost all of my clips will be green screen. |
I bought a BlackMagic Intensity Card to capture HDMI output from my Canon HV20 whilst recording green screen footage
I have a Mac Pro with Final Cut Studio2 and planned on capturing to ProRes422 What codec would you recommend? I would prefer one that I don't have to pay for. |
Ocean Zen - If you were asking the question of me, I've been recording in ProRes with no issues, but I'm trying to come up with a workflow to go back and forth between FCP and Motion.
I don't think filters make the trip, so stripping out the background in a 1st step and generating a new file seems to make sense. But then, I'm very new at this and was hoping someone with more experience would chime in. Maybe FCP7 (sometime this year??) will add another ProRes codec - or Apple could add this to Quicktime anytime they wanted for more power. Or - maybe a CineForm solution is the way to go? http://www.cineform.com/products/CineFormRecorder.htm |
Les, you should be able to roundtrip between FCP and Motion without rendering, so codecs shouldn't come into play.
Ocean Zen -- ideally, capture to Blackmagic's uncompressed codec. You payed for the card, so you might as well get true uncompressed footage from it! :) |
True uncompressed footage would be a bit too big for my hard drives.
BlackMagic say I have these options codec-wise Intensity supports many of the advanced Final Cut Pro™ features such as 10 bit rendering, RT Extreme™, and support for ProRes 422, HDV, JPEG, DV, DV50, DV100, 8 & 10 bit uncompressed media types. Does DV100 have an alpha channel? - Is ProRes422 really not suitable for green-screen? I just don't know what codec to use. Thanks for your help guys |
Ocean Zen - I think Ben is saying that ProRes will work fine. Just don't render until finished.
Filters don't make it into motion from FCP, but I think Motion filters make it back into FCP, so possibly the green screen filtering and many filters should be done in Motion? So basic editing of clips in FCP, then Motion magic with roundtrip back to FCP if necessary, then render to ProRes where it doesn't matter if there is no alpha channel (for final rendered file). |
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BTW - maybe I'm the only one that made this mistake, but if anyone is using two monitors with Motion, you halve the available VRAM and drastically reduce the speed and capabilities of Motion. I found that if I set my monitors to 'mirror' - this 'fixes' the problem - and I can easily switch back to non-mirrored for normal use. |
There is zero difference quality-wise between using dvmatte in FCP vs Motion. So unless you have a more complex composite, you can just stay in FCP. When roundtripping FCP -> Motion -> FCP, there is no rendering, so codecs do not come into play. FCP basically opens the Motion project within FCP and renders it there.
If you need to output a movie with an alpha for going to a totally different suite like CS3, then you need to choose a codec with alpha support. ProRes obviously won't work, besides which, you don't need 10 bit for HV20 footage. A better option is the Animation codec at high quality with keyframes every 10 frames. I believe at that setting, it is lossless. However, those files will be quite large. You really only need to do this for FX shots you're passing to AE, Shake, etc, for which you also need to maintain the alpha. It shouldn't come into play within Final Cut Studio. |
3rd Times A Charm?
It's Jan 30, noon EST. I hope dvMattePro 3 goes live today!
If not, when's the true ETA? Best, Anthony Torres Patiently Waiting... |
Ben - when recording 24p for green screen, would I be better off setting as high of a shutter speed as possible (making sure the gain doesn't kick in)?
It would seem logical to me that with less motion blurring, your software could work more efficiently? I know you've advised to turn Sharpness -1, and Contrast -1, Color -1. Using the flash memory half-press photo button, I think I can figure out where I'm getting the proper shutter and f-stop without any gain (if I'm correct, I can do this no matter which mode I'm in). Do you have any preferences shooting in (Tv/Av) mode or CINE mode in a studio with controlled lighting? And if using CINE - any interesting FCP filter settings to bring out the HV20's full glory? BTW - congratulations on getting your new software out today! |
Bueller? Bueller?
Alas, today's not the day. Maybe tomorrow...
Or maybe post a "secret" link so we can know the specs/cost before the videos are posted and the site is accurate? That'd be awesome! |
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I've posted up some green screen clips i shot using the IOHD with numerous color/contrast etc settings. check it out:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=113509 also does anyone have any thoughts on the intensity card vs the IOHD as far as quality differences? is the prores capture from the IOHD via HDMi going to be the same as the intensity? |
Ben,
The corrector plate idea intrigues me greatly, but I'm not sure I quite understand how it works. You shoot just the screen, then you shoot the action against the screen. The "software" uses the "blank" screen - how exactly? And have you any idea whether I could use it in either Liquid 7.2 or Commotion Pro? |
Hi Paul,
The correction plate helps dvmatte understand what is the screen and what is the subject. By using a screen correction plate, you can make your screen appear perfectly even -- then you pass that to dvmatte, and it has a much easier time keying! I had never heard of Liquid until I googled it just now. It looks like they don't have an SDK, so I can't code plugins for it -- bummer. As for Commotion, it supports some AE plug-ins, so I may support it in the future. But since AE plug-ins are CPU-only, it will be much, much, much slower than the realtime FCP/FCE/Motion version. |
Ben: Awesome Software/DV Matte Pro failed to render?
Ben,
Awesome software! I downloaded the demo. Unfortunately I get this error message when I attempt to render: "The effect "dvmatte pro demo" failed to render: Your hardware cannot render at the requested size and depth." I have an iMac G5 2ghz single processor, 1.5 ram. The footage was 1440x1200 Pro Res 24P. Is this a random glitch with the demo (as you posted earlier) or does the full version have a conflict with ProRes codec? Please advise. Thanks, Anthony PS: Last I knew, Commotion is dead software. I love it- awesome roto/mattes/paint- but I don't think they're doing any further development. Don't want you to expend much time on a dead end. |
Anthony - are you using dual monitors?
If so, set the monitors to 'mirror' while you render. When using 2 monitors off the same card, you are halving your available VRAM and can get that error msg for very simple renders. |
Cannot be rendered with Graphic Card
Hey! Thanks for the suggestion. I have the imac with no additional monitors. I turned off the other functions (HDV out). Here's the error I receive when I put the effect on:
The effect "dv..." cannot be rendered in a sequence of this size with the current graphics card. It's Chipset ATY, RV351 Type: Display Bus/Slot: AGP VRAM: 128 MB Vendor: ATI Device id: 0x4150 Revision ID: 0x0000 It's some glitch, probably in my settings. I adjust the image where the playhead is parked, but no renders. Any help is appreciated. The intro special is awesome! |
Ben - is there an ideal stacking order to dvMatte Pro3 plug-ins?
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Ben - I have a small suggestion for dvMatte Pro.
I use Logic Pro Studio. With any fader in Logic Pro, you can adjust the fader, and option-click it to bring it back to the neutral position. You might consider doing this with dvMatte Pro. The default position is not always at 0 or the middle point (2 for vBlur fader) and when fiddling with things, it is always nice to be able to quickly go back to the default position with an option-click on the fader. |
Hmm... That's really a host issue. To implement that, I'd have to code a custom interface, which would break a lot of nice features that built-in parameters get for free from the host.
In Motion, you can click on the parameter's little "-" menu to the right, and choose "reset parameter." But FCP is a little behind in terms of their parameter UI. They are working on it though -- they just added parameter groups like Motion has. So they might be open to suggestions. :) |
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1. dvmatte screenfix (to neutralize the screen) 2. VTK garbage collector (to clean up noise on the screen interior) 3. VTK chromaclean (to soften the chroma channels just a bit) 4. dvmatte pro 5. dvmatte match (totally optional) 6. dvmatte wrap (again, totally optional) If you want to use dvmatte match or dvmatte wrap after dvmatte pro, you want to make sure you have the Blend > Amount set to 0. That's a bummer, because Blend adds a lot of fine detail. So what I usually do is apply everything up to dvmatte pro, and then set the View in dvmp to "background with blend." Then I duplicate the whole deal (the clip or the layer, either way) and lay it on top of itself. On the top copy, I set Blend > Amount in dvmp to 0, and then apply match or wrap. You'll get the benefit of Blend, but still be able to use match and wrap. It sounds more confusing than it is -- I'll do a screencast soon. :) |
Ben- What is VTK Chromaclean
Ben,
What is VTK garbage collector and chromaclean? Where do you get it? Google and Dogpile aren't returning any info. Also- any idea on the source of probs with Final Cut 6 and dvMattePro3 as per my other posts on this thread? DVMP doesn't return the same problems in Motion 3. It opens and renders in Motion 3. I'm want to purchase it, but the Final Cut Pro problem is a problem. Any suggestions? Thanks, Anthony Torres |
Anthony, this is not a general issue with FCP 6 and dvmp 3. I'm not sure why you're having problems, but I'll send you a PM first thing tomorrow with the latest build to see if that fixes anything.
The VTK (Video Toolkit) is a suite of plugins I'm releasing through dvGarage -- it's not up on the site now, but it will be shortly. |
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I purchased those same green filters, so I'm trying to get the best setup as possible. BTW - I make my living on the 'dark side' of the Apple/Micosoft universe using the C# and Microsoft's SQL Server database. About 20 years ago, I used to code for the Mac. So - in regards to my option-click suggestion, I understand entirely how making a seeming small change can involve a whole lot of programming time. I have to explain that to my clients all the time. |
Is Newer Build avail. for Purchase?
Ben,
Hey! I'll be buying DVMP3 this week. Just curious if the download will be the latest build, or if I should contact you for the build after purchase? Whatever's easiest. Best, Anthony Torres |
dvMatte Pro not working on MacPro with 8800GT?
Ben - I just moved from an old Mac Pro with the lowest video card to the new Mac Pro with an 8800GT.
I sucked in all of my old files and settings. However, when I open FCP 6.0.2, I get a red screen in the viewer that says: Unable to load effect dvMatte Pro. I can see the normal dialogs in the filters tab for dvMatte Pro. How can I resolve this? I tried re-installing dvMatte Pro. |
Ben - I re-installed FCP 6 - and now dvMatte Pro 3 seems to work now in FCP.
Will test more tomorrow and in Motion. Sorry - thought it was the new 8800GT video card that was the problem. |
Ben - still on 10.5.1 - can't wait until 10.5.2 and the graphics upgrade for the 8800GT. I bet it will really speed things up!
Out of curiosity, what is your render time for 1920x1080 24p with screenFix and dvMatte Pro 3 with all the latest Apple updates? Is this different in FCP as opposed to Motion (which is preferred to render in?) But - even as things are, I'm getting great results from dvMatte Pro 3. I found two things really helped. 1. Lock the focus on the HV20 so that the 'screen only' shot is focused the same as the shot with the 'talent' in front of the screen. The 'screenFix' plug-in works amazingly well if the 'screen only' is shot this way. 2. A hair light from back and above seems to really help with spill from the lights - and make working with even blond hair against a green screen even better. --- I'm very happy! Incredible that I'm getting such great results while I'm not even starting to tap the potential of your plug-in (as I've yet to make very many adjustments to really fine-tune it). |
Great to hear the plugin is working for ya, Les!
Render time will vary based on the graphics card, so it's hard to make useful comparisons that way -- also, render time will be slower than the FPS/responsiveness you get in Motion, since rendering to a file involves doing a readback from video ram, which is slower than simply sending the dvmatte'd footage to the display. In terms of render quality, there is 0 difference between FCP and Motion. Also, about blonde hair against green: this is the one case where you might want to come down on the screen lights slightly. I've gotten good results with the screen level at 60-70% (as opposed to 90%) when keying blonde hair... Hope this helps! |
Ben - let me know what you thought of that video I sent you. Almost no work involved when good still of green screen using your included ScreenFix plug-in, but I've got a lot to learn to fully use dvMatte Pro!
So, I know how to but a single background into dvMatte Pro. That works great. But, how do I put multiple backgrounds into a single video with dvMatte Pro? |
Ben - I'd still like some advise on the best way to use dvMatte Pro 3 with multiple backgrounds in the same clip (all shot on same green screen, different backgrounds to replace the green screen).
My guess is that when I copy the background to dvMatte Pro's plug-in config - it uses the loaded background to decide how to make the edges more realistic. If I just had a background on another video track, would it be able to do the same thing - use the background video track? If not, how can I set it up so that if I have several backgrounds, that dvMatte Pro will be able to do its magic taking into account each new background? |
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