At first the zoom toggle was a bit hard to find. All previous camcorders I've used were Sonys. But after having it for a week, it became almost second nature. I suspect he wouldn't have it too hard for long.

does it really make sense to buy into HDV right now though? Instead of going HDD or flash based?

If you want the best quality HD in consumer market then HDV is the way to go, at least for now. MPEG2 based HDV is old but mature technology, meaning that encoding quality even on a consumer camera has become really good as HV20 shows.

Agreed, except I wouldn't call it 'old', I'd say it's at it's prime. The HDV codec scheme used in the Canon HV20 is very good. I've put a lot of time on the Sony Z1U and FX1 and the HDV implementation on those older cameras isn't nearly as good as the HV20 - the Sonys of that age are very noisy, and full of macroblocks.

By comparison, pretty much any HV20 HDV footage in an environment with a reasonable amount of ambient light is far cleaner, and both are the Canon and the Sonys are HDV. Canon's HDV is higher grade.

Put another way, there's never been a better time to buy an HDV camera - it's looking the best it ever has.

That's a good way to look at it ;)

I'm getting into crunch time and I think I'm going to have him go ahead and get the HV30. For myself however I'm thinking even more insanity with something along the lines of a GL-2 or a DVX-100b. It won't be for a while, but I want to start editing now with Final Cut. I just got my copy through work and I'd like to learn the program.

Well we went to go look at the camera today and get a hands-on experience, and I was plesantly surprised with the HV30, I really liked it. The salesman also showed us the new SR11 from sony and that got us thinking about possibly going the HDD route. I asked the guy if you could dual record to the HDD and to a memory stick. He had said no, but you definitely can.

So.. I guess it's a decision between the two then. What it really boils down to though is if it will work with a Mac. If it does, I think we are going to go that route.

Interesting development - so apparently it will sort of work on a mac, but not without some work-arounds, which in my personal scenario is not going to work. Period.

After some more research I'm going back to my original plan and we're going t get a HDV camera instead of AVCHD. For us right now this is the better option I think, as we will be able to import our old mini dv tapes as well.

It now boils down to a question of HV30 vs HC9. I'm thinking HV30 all the way just because of it's apple support, does anyone have anything to say otherwise?

(sorry for all my noob questions and topics, I'm just trying to learn.)

I tried to clarify the tricks with AVCHD in the other thread - it may not be a problem at all for you. ALL technology has its quirks, just have to learn the ropes. AVCHD has some quirks because it's "new" and there are still a few minor kinks - tapeless has some big advantages, you'll have to work that through before you decide. It's the interface software that presents some minor potential problems with AVCHD cams, and it will go away with mass adoption of the cameras... sooner rather than later.

As for "Apple support" - don't think that will be an issue with ANY HDV cam - plug in firewire cable, dump video... nothing difficult.

My vote would go to the HC9 over the HV30, I see enough improvement in the low light on the HC9 to overcome the main reasons the HV20 was favored over the HC7 (why a certian site that tested the cam can't see the obvious, I have no idea, but the HC9 is a noticeable and significant improvement over the HC7).

I did try the HV20, and the build quality ultimately turned me off, I can't see that they could have fixed that in the HV30 - otherwise a great little camera, but the ones I tried squeaked and creaked too much for my tolerance.

If the 24 and 30P capabilities are important, then the HV30 it is, otherwise give the HC9 a good long look if the SR11 is out of the running.

We wound up buying the HV30 for our trip, I'm pleased with it so far, but I do wish it actually had a manual focus ring instead of the little dial.

I owned an HV20 before it was stolen with all of my gear and I can say that having it for some B-rolls for a Z1 with which we are shooting a doc I am directing and editing, I haven't seen any great difference. Only that Z1 can handle low light better for sure and it has pro controls for serious work. But the image was there.

I am starting a new doc and as my gear was stollen I might go for an HV30 again.
So you should here from me again and regarding clips.

To my knowlege, you would need to spend about $2000 more to get a camcorder that has a focus ring. I don't believe I've seen a focus ring on any consumer camcorder. It would be nice.

I have read that with the HV20 you can shoot in HD and downconvert to SD in the camera on playback, I can't seem to find the same function listed for the HV30. so my question is... does it work the same way?

Yes.

NTSC manual page 42:

DV OUTPUT
[ DV LOCKED]: All video output will
be in DV standard (recordings made in
HDV will be down-converted).

Perfect, Thanks Colin!