Canon HF-10 or HV30
 

Yes another thread though they are not here yet...

1) recording HDV V. AVCHD
2) bigger Cmos AND better resolution (1920 v 1440)
3) tape v card (cheap) is less of an issue
4) zebras are less of an issue (though I love the HV20 Gain/aperture trick!)

ideas?

I too am interested in this very topic.

I'm in the market for a really good consumer grade cam for my father, and I'm still a newbie to video ( I'm a still photographer ).


Is HDV pointless to get into this late in the game?
My dad's last camcorder was a Sony DCR-TRV11.

He still doesn't trust / like the idea of tapeless cameras. But I know it's inevitable, just like when I switched from film to digital cameras. Scary but necessary change.

Ahh the good old TRV11... owned a couple along the way, but HD in almost ANY format will blow it away.

Tape, HDD, Flash memory, DVD... really four choices, although the last 3 are AVCHD format.

It really comes down to your workflow and how you use and archive footage. I'm VERY impressed with the AVCHD from my Sony CX7, actually more impressed with it than HDV in some repects, and I own both.


If tape makes him feel comfortable, pick up an HV20 quick while they are blowing them out, or an HV30... or a Sony HC7 or 9 (or the older HC3 cheap!).

If he's open to trying the "new-fangled", then I'd say you shouldn't be scared of AVCHD/tapeless - as a new technology, I think it's had some growing pains, but software has caught up to a great extent, the output from Vegas 8 looks great to my eye. I've seen other footage shot with a CX6/7 that confirms that assessment.

Technology changes, whether you want to or not is up to you!

The AVCHD cams, from Sony at least, are very easy to watch what has been taken. Just bring up the clips on the LCD, select and it will play. Backup is easy on the PC or even get the Sony VRDMC5 and make backups to DVD without a PC. For convenience they can't be beat, edit in camera, etc. It's only if you want to do fancy editing, multicam shoots etc ,etc that HDV may be better choice. I have both AVCHD for my family use and HDV/DV for projects.

Ron Evans

Canon also has this DVD type burner coming out soon.

And once you do the first project with AVCHD and see how fast you go from dump to edit... you start to see the advantages!

Tapeless has HUGE advantages if getting right to the edit is important - you can be cutting and mixing while the tapes are still downloading!

i'm playing with the hf10 right now... i'll be posting up some stuff soonish

Austin, any initial thoughts on how this compares to the HV20?

Austin, where did you get your HF10?

Austin,

What do you think of the LCD screen? How difficult does it seem to be working without zebras?

Thanks,
Paul

chris hurd handed it off to me for a couple days to check it out.

my very initial impressions are that i like it over all and i'll post more detailed descriptions once i get the footage processed and uploaded... which should be sometime today.

Any update on your findings Austin. Have you compared the picture of the HV20 to the HF10 yet?

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hf10/

Link to his hf10 files...

>) bigger Cmos AND better resolution (1920 v 1440)

The HV20 has a bigger sensor, not the HF10. As for resolution, dunno, probably Canon records in full 1080p. But the sensor AND lens AND filter thread, is better on the HV20.

well I wasn't quite ready to go public with the link. I'm still putting stuff together and am going to start a new thread once I get to my office today.

(I'll be throwing up some m2ts and a disk image and a couple more comparisons)

Sorry Austin :( I got a little excited when I saw the link...

It's more than a bit premature to say the lens, sensor and 'filter thread' are 'better' on the HV20. Don't you think? If you haven't seen the camera and tested it, it's all conjecture on your part. Let's wait for some real hands on testing.

Austin, do you have any real world comparitive material to show? I don't find the rotating fan to be too 'definitive' to my eyes. Something outdoors at a wide angle setting with lots of detail would be great as a comparison.

Hang on, Ken, we'll have "real world" HF10 video coming very soon. I'm passing the camera around to a couple of trusted friends in the Austin / San Marcos area. Austin Meyers got it first and I asked him to do the motion studies. Another colleague will provide some beauty shots (or at least, some real-world stuff) this upcoming week.

Everyone who has seen Austin Meyer's wildlife / Caddo Lake material knows that he's capable of delivering stunning video with these little camcorders, but he's busy with SXSW right now so the camera is making the rounds among some other folks so that I'm not monopolizing his time too much (thanks for all you do, Austin).

Please provide some short m2t/m2ts/mts files if possible, of the same (mostly static) shots, so we can zoom in and see the differences more clearly without additional h.264 compression. Thank you for helping us see their differences.

>It's more than a bit premature to say the lens, sensor and 'filter thread' are 'better' on the HV20. Don't you think?

HV20's sensor is bigger. This offers more bg blur, which is what I am personally after. As for the filter thread, it's 43mm in the HV20 which makes it much easier adding a step up ring and going to the 52mm which is a size that many filters exist. On the HF10's 37mm, you might even get some vignetting with such a step up ring, not sure.

HF10 First Look
 

Chris, what's the world record for holding one's breath? ;)

Okay Ken you better exhale now. It'll be later on in the week most likely.

Just pass the O2 around and I'll be fine. At least I got to see Austin's outdoor shots. Can't throw them on my Pioneer plasma due to the nature of the file and inability to put it on a DVD, but it gives you an idea.