Just got the Canon Vixia HF200. Very dissapointed
 

Hey there,

Based on the recommendations I've read on the net, it's GREAT reviews, all the GREAT footage I've seen online of the HF200 and it's predecessor, the HF100, I bought an HF200 yesterday.

Today I took it out for a test shoot, shooting outdoors at a outdoor train train station and indoors at a dance studio class with large windows.

The camera works great, feels great, it's a great camera to use. The image quality however....

Maybe I was spoiled by what I saw online, and maybe I did something wrong with my settings, but I am not happy with the footage quality.

I put the camera on manual video mode and left it as it. It was using whatever default auto presets it has for it and the footage looked great on the LCD. Crisp, sharp, great colors.

I put the footage on my computer and played it back with the Pixela player and was surprised to see the footage not as sharp, the colors dull, the footage was darker.... It just looked dark. I know the manual says that the viewfinder is typically brighter than the actual footage, but this was a huge discrepancy.

Either I was supposed to make some adjustments to the video as I was shooting or something is wrong. But what would I adjust? The exposure was at default, raise that? For the amount of light I had, auto exposure should be fine.

I will try to go full auto tomorrow and see if it changes, but I am doubtful.

Here is a still from the dance class showing what I mean.

This is about what I saw in the LCD screen:

http://www.manmeetswoman.com/images/canon1.jpg

This is actually what came out on my computer.

http://www.manmeetswoman.com/images/canon2.jpg

The stills from the camera are just as bad as well.

Also, the Pixela software that came with the camera will download the files to the harddrive but when I try to use it to edit any footage it crashes. How useless is that?

Any thoughts or advice? Did I miss tutorial on shooting with this camera? Is this because of the AVCHD format and I'd be happier with HDV somehow?

I haven't heard anything good about the Pixela software they give you with the camera. Don't blame the camera. Check out the other sections on this forum about editing AVCHD.

Sometimes you need to "calibrate" the camera's LCD to a good "reference" TV. Record some outdoor footage and some indoor footage in long enough sequence so you can play it long enough to do some matching.

Hook it up to the TV that is going to be your "reference" TV (the one you will be watching videos on or one that is typical of what most you deliver to will be using) using an HDMI cable preferably, component cable if HDMI is not available.

Play it back watching both the LCD screen and the TV, adjust the brightness of the LCD screen as necessary to get a fairly close match. An exact match may not be quite possible but if you get close it will work better.

Do this with the LCD on the camera in normal mode, NEVER USE IT WITH THE BRIGHTNESS BOOST ON for any exposure judgement or matching as above. That boost (available by holding the "display" button down) is for use only in trying to see the LCD image in daylight and for that I recommend using some kind of LCD hood.

Try the Auto modes instead.

That's due to discrepancies between your computer monitor and the camcorder's LCD screen. You should spend some time calibrating your computer monitor, your living room HDTV and the camcorder's LCD display so that they all match each other as closely as possible.

AVCHD needs a *lot* of horsepower. What are your system specs? The minimum system requirements Pixela calls for will pretty much allow for playback only. Editing will require the maximum recommended system specs.

Thanks Bruce, I'm going to have to calibrate the LCD brightness with my computer monitor. It comes out of the box too bright and it even says so in the manual I beleive.

And thanks Chris, I'll try auto today. And maybe also try to boost the exposure later as well. Other than apature or shutter priority and exposure (and white balance and programmed shooting profiles), is there anything else than can control the camera's picture?

Crossing my fingers.

I believe it will be best to calibrate it to a "reference TV" first.

Then look at adjusting your computer monitor to that. Computer monitors are frequently not adjusted to imaging standards, that's a roll of the dice. Look at how Adobe PhotoShop users have to "calibrate" computer monitors to get a decent print.

Every time I get a new monitor I have to do a "crude" visual calibration by adjusting to something close to color, contrast, and density using a good professional lab print. Others use monitor calibration hardware.
Be absolutely certain you have the LCD outdoor brightness boost OFF before making ANY exposure judgements. The display button inside the LCD "well" that when held down switches the LCD into a boosted brightness mode and when held down again switches it back to the normal mode.

AND NOW FOR A DIFFERENT PROBLEM

I messed with the settings and got the video to be somewhat better, but now there is a different problem. I was using a Class 2 SDHC card. It works find for SP quality, but I put it to XP+ to see if there would be any improvement.

You guessed it, the card wasn't fast enough so the video is only slightly jerky, almost unnoticeable, but not quite.

Is there anyway to save this footage or it can't be saved?

Yes, i know, I'm just getting my class 6 card now, this was just a temp card.

Woah, wait... just checked the footage from yesterday again. It's also a little jerky (though not as much). Maybe the problem is my processor.

If I convert to Cineform Neo Scene, will the Pixela player play it or will the plugin work with Windows Media Player?

And with it converted to Cineform, will it be easier on my system resources to play?

Do you mean jerky in your editor or your final export file. Neoscene only works in specific programs. "NLE compatibility".http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/specifications.php
I believe there are other less expensive intermediate codecs available. Check out "editing AVCHD" farther down in the forum.

For AVCHD recording at the higher quality bit rates you'll need at least a Class 4 card.

Also, it's really hard to offer any advice about your system without knowing its specs.

Hi, it turned out to be my system. I left it running for a few days and thus I did a spyware search and found some spy ware. What happened was that the longer it ran, the more the spyware ate up the system resources, which I already am at the edge.

I am running winXp in a dell notebook computer. Its good, I like it, of course I do notice I get spyware and adware like crazy every once in a while that slows it down (and no, not from porn sites, I learned my lesson long ago and don't visit them). Other wise...


* Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo T7300 (1596 Mhz/4MB L2 Cache)
* OS: Microsoft Vista Home Premium
* Hard Drive: 160 GB SATA @ 5400RPM
* Screen: 15.4" WSXGA Widescreen (1680 x 1050)
* Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT 256MB
* RAM: 2.0GB DDR2 SDRAM @667 MHz (2 x 1GB)
* Optical Drive: 8x CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/Double Layer Support
* Battery: 9-cell lithium ion
* Wireless: Intel 4965AGN
* Weight: 6.4 lbs
* Dimensions: 1.47-1.65” (H) x 14.12 “ (W) x 10.59" (D)
* Ports/Slots: 1 IEEE 1394 (FireWire); 4 Universal Serial Bus (USB 2.0); 8-in-1 Memory Card Reader; VGA Out; S-Video; RJ-45 Ethernet LAN; RJ-11 Modem; ExpressCard 54mm; stereo in, headphone/speaker out and dual digital mics

I've been using Trend Micro Virus software which does a good job at eliminating spyware, etc, and it hasn't interfered with my Adobe or music software.

Yeah it's really best not to surf the net with your editing computer, if possible. Running virus software can sometimes eat up system resources worse than spyware itself, though I suppose you could switch it off while editing and on again while surfing the net. Also a 5400 rpm drive is really pretty slow for editing hd video, the editor may not be capable of accessing the disk fast enough. If needed you could always get a 7200 rpm or faster external firewire drive for that

But I never worry too much about video playing a bit jerky in the editor, I use Premiere Pro though so I'm used to it. If possible export it to a Blu ray disc or a hd video file you can play on a PS3 or something to really get an idea of what's going on. That way you know you're evaluating the quality of the actual final product and not just your computer's performance

New update.

The automode of the camera isn't any better it didn't help.

I did fiind that I can adjust the image through exposure, while balance presets (of which there are a few good ones) and custom settings, like color depth, sharpness, brightness, contrast.

That's good, I'll play with those.

The one thing that I am not happy with is the default sharpness of the video. I think it should be a tad sharper as once the HD video is on my computer, it really isn't that sharp at all.

I don't think the camera is the problem. Maybe the files you're rendering to are too compressed. I've got a dual core with 2 drives for video and use Premiere Pro and the footage looks great. Just out of curiosity, what exactly are you viewing when you play your footage. What file type and bit rate.

When I say default sharpness, I mean straight MTS files right off the camera put on my hard drive. I play using the Pixela player. It looks like loss in color and sharpness.

And after I export/render into anything,...whew!! Terrible results.

I found that when I used Cineform Neo Scene, it made a major improvement.

I'll try some more shooting with the sharpness raised and report back here after a few days.

Ok, after having it for about two weeks, here is what I have to say about the Canon Vixia HF200.

It's a great small camera, light, sexy.

The image is outstanding, when it's lit well enough.

That being said, it's hard to figure out what the image truly looks like as the LCD screen is at least 3 'stop's too bright for what the video looks when transferred off the camera onto my computer. This is a serious flaw. I have to guestimate the look by slightly overexposing the image in the LCD screen.

What I see in the LCD screen is vibrant, rich, great image and colors.

What I see in the computer is dull, neutral images.

That's the main complaint, but when I adapt for it, it looks ok.

doesn't the LCD screen have an adjustment for brightness? My HF-S100 does.

I thought we already pointed this out, but you'll need to adjust the camcorder's LCD brightness to match your HDTV in your living room. And please understand that computer monitors treat color and brightness (gamma) differently than camcorders and television sets. Review your recorded video on an HDTV to see what it really looks like.

I'll periodically setup my camera and using a video switch connect it to my TV and DVD Player/external monitor. Using the TV as the end-of-production reference, I will adjust the settings on the camcorder screen and external monitor to get them to look the same, or as close as they can get.

This is essentially what I suggested he do, calibrate camera LCD to a reference TV or as you more accurately put it, "end of production reference".

Ronald: Computer monitors while often looking "good" to the eye, may not be that good to "judge" anything by until "calibrated".

Matching your camera LCD to the "end of production reference" or the TV typical of what folks will view your video on and doing that match FIRST puts your acquisition device (camcorder) on the same standard as your final product (program on TV).

Then see if you can bring your computer display into line with the camera and TV. There should be an Nvidia display management. Right click on your desktop and look for NVIDIA Control Panel. Be very careful what you change, you should be able to do what you need with just the brightness adj and possibly gamma. Make careful note (write it down) of where the settings are before trying any change.

With your laptop you'll likely want to look at Adobe Premiere Elements at the low price end or the latest version of Sony Vegas at the higher price point. These two should work with AVCHD on your laptop. Pinnacle Studio and PowerDirector both will require a quad core with the former demanding a FAST quad core processor.

Sharpness: Blame your computer. The camera is sharp, image shown on TV is sharp, computer monitors may not always be as sharp as we want. The onboard graphics on your laptap may also be the culprit.

But for now, calibrate your cam LCD to that reference TV, then get out and start using the cam.

I see, thanks all.

Now, to calibrate, can I do it off a composite connection or must it be on an HDMI on a HDTV? I'm really doing it for luminosity and color sake.

Can can I do it by putting back the the MTS files from the camera onto the camera again? It should be the same thing, right?

Ronald,

You are complaining about something that is NOT a problem. As a professional, I want a camera that produces normal-low contrast neutral images, which captures the greatest dynamic range, and can be manipulated in any direction you like in post.

Pretty much every camera under $6000 is going to have a LCD screen that is quite bad a reproducing the visual quality of what you are shooting. ( the only way to get around this is to buy and calibrate a professional external LCD monitor )

Here's a great post from the Pro Lost blog that covers this topic: ProLost - ProLost Blog - Flatten Your5D

Either one should do. Just so long as the TV comes somewhat close to what the finished video is going to be watched on.
If you still have the original files on the SDHC card put that card back in the camera (its complex to try and copy all the files back to the card if you've erased it, the camera looks for a very specific file and folder structure). If not shoot some outdoor stuff and some indoor stuff and leave the card in the camera. Make it long enough sequences so you have time to look at the LCD, look at the TV, and repeat as you adjust the LCD brightness. Don't expect to get a perfect match, reasonably close is the best most of us can get.

One other thing...DO NOT erase files or reformat in the computer. Do this in the camera only or you risk having an SDHC card the camera won't recognize. If you ever experience this, the only cure is to attempt to "initialize" the card in the camera.

You need some sort of reference point, otherwise there are too many variables.
I invariably put colour bars at the top of my videos. I can then set up the tv as well as the PC monitor. It's even better if there are PLUGE bars to get the correct contrast as well.