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Links to GL-2, HV10 15lux
Camcorderinfo has 15 lux test charts.
GL-2 is somewhere in here. http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...1300_group.htm HV10 is here (BTW they reference H1 comparisons, but all the charts read HV10?) http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...erformance.htm |
Take most tests done at camcorderinfo with a grain of salt. Most reviews have significant errors, and the testing has changed over the years. The Numerical testing system is very inconsistent, and they often praise a product for a feature and condemn it for that very feature.
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Holly,
All I am referencing is the 15 lux test charts. Same test chart, hopefully same 15 lux lighting, two cameras, one small data point that seems to suggest that the HV10 does at least as well if not better than the GL-2 in available darkness. |
Maybe it's about time we do our own charts... DV Info Net style. How does that sound.
DSC Labs is already a sponsor here. All of the elements are in place as far as I can tell. |
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A number of the digital camera sites have a set chart and still life they use for every camera. That way you get an apples to apples comparison between two cameras. The Imaging Resource Comparometer is a nice implementation. http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM -Tom- |
Chris,
Thats a good idea. I'd trust this site. :) I'd like to suggest a time line feature that could possibly be updated with a few trusted ppl. Similar to dpreview's timeline. Showing camera model number and date released. Its an awesome thing to track your next purchase with and to just see when the camera your about to purchase was really released and actually seeing its 10months old already can be a help. :) |
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Ultimately I don't think the 24p features will be useful to the typical HD consumer. Most people will switch to 24p and see that it looks very jerky. Purists will complain about "jutter" and the like.
Because it's a 1/2.7" chip, the DOF will not be very shallow - which will make pans and steadicam work look very stroboscopic. Only those people who really understand what it takes to make deep DOF 24p video look good will benefit from the feature. For those people, this camera will be a budget conscious boon. I would most certainly purchase this camera over the FX1 if it was available at the time. Of course, it wasn't, so the FX1 is what I've got. Camcorders like this bode very well for the consumer of the future... who knows what the next generation will hold! -Steve |
Maybe it would reintroduce in a way the shakey (is that a word?) feel of those old 8mm films :)
btw nice picture overview behind that Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...&s=electronics. I'm having a hard time guessing whether my Canon WD-43 0.7 converter will not obstruct the instant focus sensor. http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg |
Yes -- either converter (wide or tele) will obstruct the I.AF sensor.
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How might the Canon HV20 compare to the Panasonic DVX100
Anyone have an opinion on this? As I do not own the Panny, and nobody has the Canon, I know this is next to impossible to probably comment on. But I'm hoping that any folks with experience with an HV10 and the Panny might be bale to make an educated guess.
Thanks, |
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Thanasis |
i'm assuming this HV20 has lens threads... widescreen? nice.
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but resolution is not all the picture. the gamma curve on the DVX will capture a more natural roll off before clipping that equals better dynamic range. |
CAn HV10/ HV20 be used for real broadcast? Will broadcast stations approve images from this cam ? Considering this is a Single CMOS ?
Thanks for ur input |
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I’ve noticed that a lot of HD stock footage companies never allowed video from 1 chip camcorders but the HC1 became an exception. |
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I have heard that Engineers at TV station usually check the footage thru Waveform monitors , Vectorscope and other hardware equipment to analyse the depth and quality of footage . So usually Single CCD camera give way and they will find that out.
However CAnon HV10/20 being an exception I dont think they will find that out, as long as their testing equipments do not scream. Hence I just wanted some comments, from users who have already broadcasted their work. Thanks |
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it would be like,"what a great show. People are going to love this. But you better run it through the Vectorscope first Bill." |
A scope isn't going to tell you what kind of camera the footage was shot on necessarily, just certain qualities of the video. CCD's being used is not one of them.
As long as it looks "airable," content is king. You should see the kind of stuff that makes it to air where I work sometimes. |
A single viewing of any episode of Discovery's "The Planet's Funniest Animals" will quickly reveal that fifteen-year-old video shot on VHS or 8mm is perfectly acceptable for broadcast.
It's all about content. |
Cine Color Mode
In Chris Hurd's overview, he writes:
"There's a Cine color mode available as well, which can be used with or without 24p. It's actually based on one of the Custom Presets included with the Canon XH A1 and G1 camcorders, number 8 (Cine.V.) The parameters of that preset are Gamma: Cine 1, Knee: Low, Black: Stretch, Sharpness: -4, Color Matrix: Cine 1, Color Gain: -20, Color Phase: +5, Red-Blue: -5, Green-Red: -5, Blue-Red: +5, and Red-Green: +12. When the HV20 begins shipping in April, it'll be interesting to see how this Cine color option matches up with Custom Preset 8 from an XH A1." Assuming it is close to the Custom Preset 8 of the XH A1, and with the idea of shooting as dynamic an exposure as possible, for either better color correction in post or for a film out, does anybody have an opinion as to how this Cine Color Mode stands up? Thanks, |
Sorry For Late Reply
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I've been traveling and just caught up. I have been reading in this forum long before I even signed up. I still have yet to buy a camcorder, been using my friend's old GL1, and was waiting for something cheap with 24p. I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT ON! I don't want anything too pro (yet) but I have a lot of ideas and want that film look. Also, your comment about Canon testing their conversion to CMOS on the consumer market is correct as well. Why risk losing your cult following through claims of being used as lab rats. Everybody has been picking apart this cam since the forum started. Imagine a pro cam! Thomas P.S. Qatar! sweet |
the only barrier to using this on indie/negative budget shoots is getting cast/crew to respect the size of the cam. it's so small that they'll just brush it off as a VERY amatuer/youtube production and not a "real" indie with a bigger cam like pannie dvx100 or any of the larger xl series from canon.
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get a redrock or cinevate adapter and get rid of your 3ccd cam. :))
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so besides 24p, what other progressive modes does the hv20 record at?
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As Jesse points out above, it is referred to as pf24 in the camera menu. |
Well, there's 25p too. . . ;-) (I know I'm referring the PAL version LOL)
BTW, is there any information on the shutter speed over 25p? Chris? |
Has anyone been able to confirm that we are definetly going to get an uncompressed feed out of the HDMI when shooting? If so I'm going to pull the trigger on buying one right now.
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For Rob, I don't think it could be anything other than uncompressed output over HDMI, but of course nobody knows for sure until the camera comes out or Canon says something (in my experience the former usually happens before the latter). |
I am assuming that is has to be uncompressed as well, Otherwise there would be a time delay on the signal. The other thing that I am trying to figure out is if the signal coming out of the HDMI is 4:2:2 8 bit. I am planning on grabbing it with a Blackmagic Intensity and I know that is what is supported by the card. But what I am wondering is if the card is recording 8bit off a 10bit signal or if the signal itself is 8 bit. Eitherway this will be a mind blowing setup.
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30p via 1/30th Shutter?
In this or another thread someone has asserted that using a 1/30th shutter gives you a 30p progressive picture. Is this true?
I often use 1/30th shutter on my GL-2 (in frame mode) to give me another stop of low-light capability. The motion signature looks about the same, even for high motion subjects such as dance. The only drawback is that the auto-focus suffers. |
so how is panning in 24p? will it be a little stutter as opposed to 30p/60p(which isn't avail)?
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Is this correct? The Canon 24F in HDV is not recorded this way on the XLH1. It is recorded to tape as 24F in HDV. It is recorded 60I with 2:3 Pull down in 24F DV. The camera does output HD this way through the SDI port but firewire outputs a 24F file. Sony's new HDV 24P does record 24p to the 60I signal with pulldown so the recordings are not compatible. |
so i've read all and any info on the hv20. so am i correct that the camera shoots only in 1080 60i and 1080 24p?
what about the suggestion from above about 1/30th shutter. will this be the same as the gl2's 30p frame mode? my use is mainly shooting interiors of homes consisting of maily slow pans and zooms and using the homeowner's lighting lamps and flourescents. so lowlight and panning are a concern for me. is this the right camera for me? thanks for any feedback. =) |
The camera also shoots in regular DV mode (480). PQ of the HV10 is superb, so we expect at least that from the HV20 except for improved lowlight, 24p shooting, mike input, headphone output, HDMI out etc. It should be superb! Yes, if you like HD, this camera is for you!
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