Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Well Bryce, you just saved me unnecessary trouble. I now know the batteries are all like mine. Thanks!

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

My 828 says 237min on a full charge. That's almost four hours. I'm new to this genre of camera; what would be a more acceptable duration?

Bob

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

280 mins would be more in line with the XA-10. However, based on Bryce's observations, it sounds like the XA-20 consumes more battery power than the XA-10, or the XA-10 is overestimating it's run time.

Either way, nothing to be done, it is the way it is.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

The XA20 is rated for 4.5 watts, the XA10 for 3.0 watts. Expect a corresponding reduction in runtime with the same battery; e.g., a 360 minute batterey in the XA10 should give about 240 minutes in the XA20.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Mine says 197 mins after full charge!

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

I also think you will find the run time will vary with the settings you have. Eg. using IS & AF along with a 35mbps setting will result in a shorter run time than no IS, Manual focus, & say 24mbps encoding will be a little longer. At least that was my experience while playing around.
Regards,
Bryce

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

I was curious about battery consumption with the camera on but not being used since there is no standby. With the camera on and a full charge, reading 237min, I closed the display and set a timer for one hour. When the timer went off, I checked the battery and it read 187min remaining. So, though it didn't consume a full hours worth, it does use a lot of juice just sitting there idle.

Bob

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

It is also interesting that there is no longer an auto power off function. Unless that was the case with the XA10, they have certainly dropped it from the HF G10. One of only a couple of dislikes I have with my EX-3 is the lack of that auto power off & draining batteries when I forget to slide that little switch over. When you are miles from anywhere & you run out of batteries, it is a hard pill to swallow!
Bryce

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Thanks Don. You have explained the phenomenon. This accounts why the XA-20 will not run with legacy batteries. The design of the camera apparently called for more than the older batteries could provide.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

The big brown truck just dropped my XA-20 off a few minutes ago. I'm like a kid on Christmas morning right now!

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Ok, you guys tell me if I'm being too picky here. I'm still getting to know this camera and some of the things that have been omitted are really annoying considering the level that this camera is designed for. I just realized that there are no zoom power numbers, just a bar with an indicator. I looked through the manual and couldn't find any reference to how to get the actual zoom magnification to show up. This is something I use quite a bit on my little Panasonic HDC-TM90. I shoot mostly horses and I often setup a baseline where I'll be most of the time, then if I zoom in or out, I know what number to go back to. Seems like most of the things people are finding need improvement are things that could easily be fixed with a firmware upgrade. It almost feels like they did it on purpose just to be able to say later, "Look at all the stuff we gave you in the new firmware."

I did edit some stuff from the camera in Premiere Pro CC last night. I was really happy with it. Much better dynamic range that the little Panasonic.

Bob

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Auto power off was needed with tape camcorders for three reasons: head wear in pause, tape wear in pause, and the increased use of power by motors when they are running. These issues are gone with tapeless systems. Auto focus, stabilization, and zoom notors use power when acutally in use. There is some increased use of power during recording due to increased DSP and write loads (as is the case with any computer).

I suspect that for most people the savings with a sleep mode would be probably be small compared to the convenience of having near instant on recording. More people complained about the auto shut off with tape camcorders than have complained about it being missing on tapeless machines.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

I got to play with the XA20 today. Sweet camera. I'm going to like this over my HV30 and XH-A1.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35...ps47f74dfd.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35...ps9748c485.jpg

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Congrats Derek!

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

I totally agree the XA-20 is a fine camera. Right out of the box we were able to obtain an outstanding quality clean clear image.
.
Our camera arsenal here at Kato Video Production includes the following Ex-1-R Ex-3 and PMW 320.
We had never compared any other cameras to our Xdcam cameras until now.

Wow! I was really taken back after looking at the initial clips before we did any tinkering. My
Ex-1R looked sick up beside the XA 20. The canon was much warmer, had more contrast and much cleaner image than the EX-cameras. The image quality or "look" of a camera is very subjective and what might look good to me might not to another person. However, the "look" of this little camera was very pleasing. So Pleasing that we are now tinkering with the XDCAM cameras trying to find profiles that would give us more contrast and a warmer cleaner image as the XA20. We are currently using Doug Jensen's Doug 1 profile and have been pleased with the results.

Here is the set up that we are using at the present after our initial tests.

Shutter -Pri- 60 AE
White balance auto

focus manual peaking on I will probably turn this off it gives the view finder a red tint.

Image effects: sharpness -1, Brightness 0,contrast -1, color depth +1

auto gain limit 9 db actually running in the auto position.

iris auto

image stabilizer dynamic

focus manual: actually I toggle the auto on first then change to manual with peaking and focus assist then leave it at manual.

face tracking off

auto backlight correction on

ND filter on auto

movie format AVCHD
Recording mode 24 Mbps LPCM

Relay recording However, I may change this because
the 64 gig cards will run much longer than the batteries. I may change to dual recording.

frame rate 59.94i

DF/NDF DF setting

ND filter automatic

user output mode fixed

OLED color balance 0
OLED brightness bright.

auto white balance

We are more accustomed to cameras that have the major settings on the outside of the camera. However, the menu is easily accessible and there are buttons that can be programed to helpo some of the settings like white balance, iris, shutter speed and so on. We plan to use this camera in a run and gun method when setup is not an option. The OLED screen is outstanding and the menus are logically arranged to make going total manual easier than other small cameras we have used.

A couple other of findings is that the Hoodman Viewfinder hood that I have been using on the Ex1-r fits fine on the XA20 and makes manual focus much easier and helps in bright light.

Instead of trying to match the XA20 to the XDCAM cameras as we initially thought we are now looking for Picture profiles to match the XDCAM cameras to the XA20.

Don't get me wrong. We are not ready to ditch our Sony cameras. They have been workhorses and have never let us down with hundreds of hours of use in some very difficult shooting conditions.

We just discovered a little small camera that gives a look that we like.

We have looked high and low for picture profiles for the XDCAM cameras to give a more warm look and and more contrast to mimic the XA20 but have been unsuccessful.

If you know of a site that might help please send me the link

Thanks guys and gals for all the posts I have read on the forum. I have learned so much from your questions and answers.

Take care

Ronnie Martin
ronnievideo@aol.com

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

If I were to go this route I would have to op for the XA-25. Lots of gigs I go on want a SDI out. Even in live streaming.
What does the Standard def look like out of this camera, anybody know? That would be important to me as well.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

In all of the 20 years or so of video production we have never had a request for SDI. I am sure that your
"gigs" are more technical more demanding and on a higher plane than ours. I really think the D 30 is a better buy price wise if you are looking for a small prosumer camera with a terrific image. All three cameras XA25/20 and G30 all have the same lens and sensor. The 20 and 25 both have the XLR imputs (which are removable)and the 25 has SDI out. All three have wifi function. I can see where for run and gun news gathering the 25 might be a a great buy when you consider the image quality and the price.

Thanks for your reply

Ronnie
Kato Video Priductions

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

I hear you Ronnie. but it's not the past 20 years I'm looking at.
SDI is the only way to feed HD signals long distances.

if you need it once that's. it.:: Why does an output cost more?

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Can be drive by a number of factors, not the least of which are number of units they expect to sell with the added feature (different case, added jack, and circuit board perhaps) compared to the cost to implement it, the expected lifecycle maintenance/support cost of the unit with the added feature, and what the market is willing to pay.

On the average, units with SDI may be subject to more field use under rough conditions resulting in a higher warranty repair rate, which translates to higher warranty/support cost component in setting the final price.

SDI allows use of existing 75 ohm/BNC connector analog video cabling.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

I forgot to say that I already have the ATOMOS HDMI-HD-SDI converter .....still in the box. .

I assume it will do the same thing and work with all our cameras. We have not used it yet. It was won in a drawing at NAB.

Ronnie

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

What luck. Yes it will work with any camera.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Now if I could just have some "luck" is discovering a Picture Profile to make the Sony cameras match the
Canon XA20.
I have spent the past few days searching all the forums without success. I have a vector scope and wave form generator in my Edius editing software that I have been comparing the ex-1r/ex-3 to the XA20. We probablly won't use the Canon in a shoot with the Sonys. The XA20 will be used alone mainly during traveling. Since the Sony cameras are more neutral in their look, It may be easier to color correct them in post to match the look of the Canon.

I just wish I could make the Sonys look more like the Canon to start with..

If you know of a site or a PP that would give me more of the Canon image please let me know

Take care

Ronnie
ronnievideo@aol.com

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Can someone confirm that the XA20 LANC control would use the same controller as Sony.

Thanks

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

LANC is a Sony standard that dates to the 1990s and designed to support to a variety of mostly consumer and prosumer gear including (but not limited to) VCRs and camcorders - it should work (but I have not tried an XA20 yet). However, it is quite possible that some, perhaps many, functions implemented in a given controller (Sony or other brand) are NOT implemented in the XA20 such as specific zoom speeds, play speeds, etc. as well as features that may not apply to a camcorder.

One would have to test the specific controller to see what is implemented, and what is not.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Thank you Don.

I had to buy a new controller when I got the AC90, Panasonic and Sony not compatible at all. I'm seriously looking at the XA20 to replace a Sony FX1000. I've been waiting for something to come out with a 20x zoom.....same as the FX. I'm just wondering how the XA will compare to the FX with low light wedding situations.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Don't know about the XA20/25 but my lanc controller I used on my Sony V1U worked fine with my Canon XA10 so my guess is it will work.

When I was buying my XA10 my internet research seemed to indicate Sony and Canon had common lanc protocol but that Panny was different.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Canon has a long history of using LANC dating back at least to the A1 Digital and L2 Hi8 camcorders. In fact a modified Sony LANC conroller (the RM90 ???), I forget the number) is used to program the internal settings of the XL1 (and likely several other Canons) such as back focus. Details are in the FSM. There are likely some old threads in the XL1 area on this subject.

As noted Panasonic and JVC did not support LANC, but had something sort of similar.

From memory, LANC is a Sony contol protocol and hardware spec that uses a 9600 bps serial data stream with a master-slave configuration, and an 8-byte data packet. The master sends out a stream of 8-byte data packets on the serial line and monitors the signal on the line line as well. Certain bits in the pack reflect status from the master. This can include current operating mode and time code (if implemented in the master). Other bits are available tor the slave (e.g., the controller) to send commands to the master by "pulling down" the appropriate bits. The master reads the command by observing which bits were pulled down. (If I recall correctly, LANC time code was sent every other frame.) Products like the Videonics AB-1 and Thumbs-up used LANC and LANC time code for near-frame accurate linear editing.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Thanks guys!

The XA20 is on the way. Should have it early next week. I plan on doing some test against the FX and AC90. If it holds up well it will be a keeper and the FX is gone to B&H used dept.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

I ordered an XA-20 from BandH on Monday.

It arrived today.

This will compliment my Sony NX5U and Canon HV40 for weddings. I also use a Nikon V1 and Hero2 sometimes.

I think I'm going to really like having another 20x zoom camera. It's amazing how useful that can be, especially at weddings. Can't wait to test this out!

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Tim, I like mine very much, it's growing on me. I like it's images better than the XA-10, they are more pleasing to me, but it is taking some getting used to, in order to white balance correctly.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Hi Jeff, I've seen some of your post regarding WB. I don't think this will affect me much. I very rarely WB whilst recording.

WB has always been a trouble area for me.....I'm just not schooled enough to know how to get good WB for the changing light conditions. I get my wife to hold up a white towel in the sanctuary before the ceremony starts to set the WB on all cams. If the lighting is different on the alter, I will set two WB so I can toggle to it when the B&G get up there. Is this not possible on the XA20?

I don't understand how one would set WB during the ceremony with out filling the lens with white anyway, so if this is what the XA20 can't do I don't think it will be a problem for me.

Glad to hear you are liking the PQ. I have always respected your opinions with cameras.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Hi Tim. Thanks for the kind words. I used to set WB as you do. It has been years since I've used that method. Funny, I'd forgotten about it. Maybe I should try it again.

Anyway, I set color temp manually. Filling the screen with white is often inaccurate for me, either too blue or too yellow for me, so I just do it manually.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Oh ok, I've never had a video cam with temp adjustments, well the GH2 but I don't use it as much as the video cams.

I can see where you would want to do that on the fly. So you trust what's on you cam monitor or do you use an off cam monitor?

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Hi

I read that the upstart of the XA20/25 is pretty slow. I hae a Panasonic TM900 myself that starts almost immediate as you open the LCD screen. The TM900 alsohave some kind of faster startup modes selectable in the menues, but as it starts up so fast without this option, I havn't used it.

My question regarding the XA20/25 is: how long time does it take to start the camcorder?

Regards,

/Bo

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

I haven't measured it but I would say about three full seconds. That might not sound like much but I've completely missed shots because of it. I just leave the camera on now and it's not a big deal except for battery consumption. It's a very nice camera. I just put about 34 hours of recording time on it over the last four days and it did a very good job even in really low, pre-dawn, light.

Bob

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

It's very slow, I just checked and it took about 5 seconds. For wedding work, when in doubt, I close the LCD and leave the camera on. It does not drain the camera much to leave it on for 30 minutes. If 30 mins in standby uses more power than I can afford, I need to buy more batteries.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Speaking of battery's, I read a review on B&H that said the base plate has to be removed to change the battery. Is this true?

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

yes Tim, its the same as the xa10. its very inconvenient.

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Depends on which baseplate and how you mount it. I use a Manfrotto 501 plate and I can mount it slightly forward so I can still release the battery but the front edge of the plate makes pushing the custom button next to the dial slightly more difficult than it is to begin with.

Bob

Re: XA-20 is a fine camera
 

Bob is correct, but I find sliding the plate forward enough to release the battery makes using the exposure button/wheel very awkward. It is a lose lose proposition. I feel that Canon did not think this through. A large number of pros, particularly wedding shooters use 501 style heads, so this should have been addressed in the design.